Go Back  RCU Forums > Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more > Control Lines
Reload this Page >

Converting RC engines to Control Line

Notices
Control Lines For all you fly-by-wire fanatics!

Converting RC engines to Control Line

Old 09-25-2003, 10:42 AM
  #26  
I_FLY_CL
Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Kiwi
you are correct today I would buy a OS 40 LA and make a venturi out of a plastic spacer and run it.
But the problem is that the guy that has my engine has a fancy web page and runs a popular C/L forum has set on my engine for over 12 months with out even having the courtesy of sending me one email explaining the delay. When he does answer my emails it's my fault that he does not have the time to work on it.
Old 09-25-2003, 12:27 PM
  #27  
gcb
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Port Ewen, NY
Posts: 3,440
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Shouldn't be a problem. Just offer to pay postage to have it returned to you. Remember, some of the engine reworkers are also avid contest guys.

For the LA, why not get the CL version and you won't have to mess with the spacer.

George
Old 09-25-2003, 01:36 PM
  #28  
I_FLY_CL
Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Because the CL engine is more $$ and the venturi is the wrong size. And the number one reason is the CL engine is blue and who wants a blue engine.
Old 09-25-2003, 01:57 PM
  #29  
Sport_Pilot
 
Sport_Pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 16,916
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Another plus is that you can sell the carb if you don't need it. Or keep it and use it for RC later.
Old 09-25-2003, 05:06 PM
  #30  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Fox Lovers:

Ill admit it. My sameful secret. I used to fly Fox engines. They were the old four-bolted head 0.35 engines. Those of you who remember them probably also remember carrying a supply of head gaskets, and a Phillips screwdriver to change them.

Flip the prop a few times and hear a loud pop, change the head gasket and flip it some more. When you got it started it ran fine, with an excellent 4-2-4 break. But that head gasket...

Then I discovered Johnny Brodbeck, and it was "Green Head" K&B for me.

Granted, Ol' Duke did fix his problem when he finally went to the six-screw head, and did away with the paper gasket on the head. Too late. I stayed with K&B.

I did buy another Fox every once in a while, and I found that while the head gasket problem was corrected, another weak point showed up. And granted, they didn't break the rod, the new weakness was the crankshaft.

The attached picture is the bottom of the crankcase of one Fox I've kept, to remind me not to buy another.

Bill.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Bz78065.jpg
Views:	61
Size:	104.9 KB
ID:	63686  
Old 09-25-2003, 05:12 PM
  #31  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

OK, so you discount my experience, you never heard of me in CLPA circles. How about Bill Werwage? Remember the Ares series of planes? Right. That Bill Werwage. He got tired of having Foxes blow up, and was instrumental in getting Hi Johnson to start building engines. He did finally give up, and just tolerated the regular engine changes staying with Fox.

This picture is the guts of the same Fox shown in tha last picture.

Bill.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Tr51251.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	108.5 KB
ID:	63687  
Old 09-27-2003, 12:10 AM
  #32  
littlefly
Member
 
littlefly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Crawfordville, FL
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Odd:
My father loved them. He had 29,35,36x,40bb and a 59. Either ran good ole 5% Superfuel, Missle Mist, or his last favorite, Duke's Mixture. Never had any trouble out of his engines. I've flown Fox, K&B Torpedo and McCoys (yes the infamous 'Red Head 35).
Never had trouble with any of them and we flew the hell out of them almost every Sunday.
Later:
littlefly
Old 09-27-2003, 12:46 AM
  #33  
jessiej
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: no city, AL
Posts: 2,613
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

[That Bill Werwage. He got tired of having Foxes blow up, and was instrumental in getting Hi Johnson to start building engines. He did finally give up, and just tolerated the regular engine changes staying with Fox.]

Actually Hi Johnson was already in the engine business at the time. Bill worked with Johnson to build a better stunt engine than Fox but they were unsuccessful and Fox dominated PA until the trend to larger engines.

I used some Johnsons in Combat untill the Fox Combat Specials came along. The Johnsons were very nice engines and Hi was a super guy.
Old 09-27-2003, 12:57 AM
  #34  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Jessie:

You're right. I should have said Bill W. got Hi Johnson to start building stunt engines. But I got the unsuccessful part right.

Bill.
Old 09-27-2003, 11:14 AM
  #35  
gcb
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Port Ewen, NY
Posts: 3,440
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

But then, you can get parts or have the factory rebuild your Fox .35.

George
Old 09-27-2003, 03:39 PM
  #36  
jessiej
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: no city, AL
Posts: 2,613
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

A friend with a Johnson powered Nobler once did a perfect wingover except for no pull out. The 90 degree, one point landing on concrete of naturally shattered the engine like a tea cup. As a joke my friend sent the pieces of the engine to Johnson with a letter explaining that while he was admiring his new Johnson he accidentaly dropped it on the carpet. A few days later a New Johnson 35 came in the mail with a handwritten note from Hi Johnson congratulating my friend on his creativity!
Old 09-29-2003, 11:47 AM
  #37  
Kiwi
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: The Alamo City, TX
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

[&:]
ORIGINAL: William Robison

Fox Lovers:

I'll admit it. My sameful secret. I used to fly Fox engines. They were the old four-bolted head 0.35 engines. Those of you who remember them probably also remember carrying a supply of head gaskets, and a Phillips screwdriver to change them.

Flip the prop a few times and hear a loud pop, change the head gasket and flip it some more. When you got it started it ran fine, with an excellent 4-2-4 break. But that head gasket...
The first one of that type I owned is the one I just picked up off eBay with a Series 75 Torp as well, for pocket change. But many of the older guys at the flying fields in the early 1950's used the old Fox, and none of them had problems with head gaskets, or at least none complained where I heard about it. By the time my paper route was big enough and profitable enough to buy NEW engines, the Fox had already moved to a six bolt head (mid-1952 was about when that change occurred, I think).

Then I discovered Johnny Brodbeck, and it was "Green Head" K&B for me.
The 1952 Torps were still made with natural-colored heads, and they LOOKED GOOD. The Foxes, most that I've seen, have almost always been rather ugly looking. I bought a used K&B 29 in 1951; that was my first glow engine. I bought a new one of the same model the following year. I saw the Fox in the display case. Compared to the K&B, it was very homely looking, but it DID have:
1. Trumpet flared intake
2. Six head screws
3. Smoother exterior than the so-called "Sandcast" predecessors
4. Name Fox, and displacement size raised disk on the bypass.

Those aspects defined the change from the prior model, and there were a few Fox engine heads made with a lot more screw holes, probably 10, so the same heads fit both the 4-bolt, and the 6- bolt cases. Watch the very interesting video tape about the entire family of Fox 35/36 engines; all the changes are shown with examples of each.

Granted, Ol' Duke did fix his problem when he finally went to the six-screw head, and did away with the paper gasket on the head. Too late. I stayed with K&B.

I did buy another Fox every once in a while, and I found that while the head gasket problem was corrected, another weak point showed up. And granted, they didn't break the rod, the new weakness was the crankshaft.

The attached picture is the bottom of the crankcase of one Fox I've kept, to remind me not to buy another.
I also didn't get around to owning a Rocket 35 until many years after it was replaced by the Blue Ribbon 35X. The second run of Rockets were the Foxes with a lower end looking like a Testors McCoy (as in the image mentioned). The first Fox that had consistent crank problems that I became aware of was the 1974 36X Combat Special {or "Mark II", or "Baldie"}. I owned several of those during 1975/1985 and used them in AMA Slow Combat, with 9" props. They would turn too many rpm's with an 8" prop and spit the front end of the shaft out, very much the way the first G21-35's had done in 1962 or so.

The first six-bolt "barn door" Fox engine had crank problems as well. One of the possible sources of the term "Mark III" used for that engine is that there were two early types of cranks with inferior hardening processing. Duke may have meant that the "I" & "II" type cranks were phased out. He never had used the terms Mark I and/or Mark II, himself, and never told me what the numbering was about for certain. I did ask him personally.

(in Edit: PS: I have a clear recollection of the earliest Fox 29/35 appearance from prior to 1952 (could've been 1953, but probably not that late), and the tremendous improvement represented by the later model, particularly the casting process, which made the Fox appearance somewhat less crude (particularly comparing Fox 35's, though still not as good-looking as the K&B products).

[8D]

Kiwi

**
Old 09-29-2003, 12:03 PM
  #38  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Kiwi:

Your time line is a bit off - in 1952 the Foxes were four-screw. The six-screw heads came along around 1958, I think. I got my first green K&B around 1955.

Bill.
Old 09-29-2003, 03:22 PM
  #39  
dennis
My Feedback: (90)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Minersville, PA
Posts: 1,872
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Bill. Have to agree with Kiwi. 1958 is incorrect for a timeline on the 6 bolt fox head. 1952 is about right. I'm sure that someone will join in with a definitive date. Dennis
Old 09-30-2003, 08:49 AM
  #40  
gcb
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Port Ewen, NY
Posts: 3,440
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

OK, OK, I broke out a Fox box and read their brochure, "Happiness Is A Fox Motor". They started making the .35 stunt in 1948 and the current model is nearly a copy of the 1951 version.

George
Old 09-30-2003, 09:51 AM
  #41  
w8ye
My Feedback: (16)
 
w8ye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shelby, OH
Posts: 37,576
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

I bought a new Fox 35 stunt in late 1958 and it had the reinforced head bolt bosses in between the fins that the previous model that every one else was using did not have.

Both versions had 6 head bolts. The older version must have been around for a while as there were a lot of them around?

Enjoy,

Jim
Old 09-30-2003, 12:49 PM
  #42  
William Robison
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mary Esther, Florida, FL
Posts: 20,205
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Well,

I'm remembering four screw heads as being the weak head gaskets, and I know I was still popping them in 1955.

Maybe it was a change after going to the six screw head that stopped the "Heads-a-popping." Perhaps it was at the same time Jim's reinforced bosses were added.

Bill.
Old 09-30-2003, 06:01 PM
  #43  
jessiej
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: no city, AL
Posts: 2,613
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Maybe it was a change after going to the six screw head that stopped the "Heads-a-popping." Perhaps it was at the same time Jim's reinforced bosses were added.

I have a .29 and a couple of .35s with the 6 bolt head but no bosses so the change was not at the same time.

An upcoming issue of the Engine Collectors Journal is supposed to feature a history of the Fox engines.
Old 09-30-2003, 08:25 PM
  #44  
ajcoholic
My Feedback: (10)
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Timmins, ON, CANADA
Posts: 4,236
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

Guys, according to Anderson's BB the Fox 35 started using a 6 bolt head in 52'.

My first engine was a K&B .29S stunt. Given to me in the late 70's by my mentor and I still run it today.

I am 33 so I am afraid I wasnt around when it was actually produced.

Andrew Coholic

PS. this thread, regarding converting RC engines to CL.... I have been an avid hobby machinist for quite a few years. I have converted many, many engines to CL - just make friends with someone who owns a lathe. Its so simple, the venturi, spraybar and needle can be made up in an hour. Never rely on anyone else again! Get a small hobby lathe...
Old 10-01-2003, 12:42 AM
  #45  
Clean
 
Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Parkville, MO
Posts: 1,433
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Converting RC engines to Control Line

from what I was told, 52 was non sandcast, 6 bolts, 3 backplate, no reinforcements no crank webbing. 53 had webbings 55-56 had webbings, re-inforcements and somewhere next they added the bar in the exhaust. And that's about all I know other than all mine snarl better than yours on 10% less nitro.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.