Go Back  RCU Forums > Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more > Control Lines
 The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane >

The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

Notices
Control Lines For all you fly-by-wire fanatics!

The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

Old 12-19-2008, 02:32 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Aurora_60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: kaneohe, HI
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

Well it's been some time (25 or years) since I had a go at C/L. Problem was, trying to find a friend who could launch my plane for me, and also the whole social thing of sharing thoughts and times with someone who enjoyed the sport as much as I. I live on Oahu in Hawaii and their really wasn't much of a C/L community that I knew of. So off to the R/C field I went.
All these years later I found some guys flying C/L planes at a park, and they were quite passionate about their planes... my kind of crowd. I got some info from them and search the net to find what I wanted to get into C/L. Even though I have flown some planes before, it was never a "Real" plane so to speak. My planes were a 1/8 sheet of balsa for a wing and stab, 1/4x1/2 spruce for a fuse and recycled hardware as well as the tank and fuel lines! It flew, maybe not as well as my long crashed and burnt Goldberg Stntman (which is where I got all the parts to keep making the crude planes thereafter) but it did fly.
Now I just recieved my RSM Pinto. Oh My Gosh. The quality of this kit is IMO Great. All the parts are laser cut and the wood is some really nice contest grade balsa.
The Pinto is a 1/2A Full build up stunt plane. It is actually a shrunk down Oriental. "Full Build" meaning it has a built up fuse! and it's 1/2A size! It also uses flaps! You guys who are familiar with this plane are probably wondering why I'm so excited about this. I just think it's great for a smaller plane to have the same qualities as the bigger stuff. I also never had a flapped C/L plane before... Never even had the chance to see one perform.
the LCD on my camera is out so I can't take any picture right now. But I will, and I'll post some up for anyone who might be interested in a plane like this.

DM
Old 12-19-2008, 10:12 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
build light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Crete, NE
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

I sure hope there is interest! I share your excitment from here.

There was another thread on the Pinto here:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_51...tm.htm#5133880

Cover it with Doculam to save lots of weight. MonoKote too heavy for this one I think.
Robert
Old 12-19-2008, 03:02 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Aurora_60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: kaneohe, HI
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

Doculam??
I have no idea what this is..
I was thinking of silk, I'm practicing on a Goldberg Falcon 56 right now.
I would really like to know about any other options available. I do like the weave that silk has.

I read the other thread. I have no idea what the older kits were like, but this looks like it is going to be extremely light. When I ordered the plane from RSM, the person there (I'm terrible with names) said if I plan on a TD 051 use at least 40 foot lines! He says the plane will scoot with norvel 061 and needs 45 foot lines!
We wave stond tradewinds here. An average day is about 15 mph not counting the gusts. I'm thinking of using a larger diameter prop, maybe 7, and a lower pitch, like a 3, to give the plane a bit more pulling power but slowing the speed down. Seem s to work on my R/C planes, but I have noticed that you guys (C/L) experiment alot more with props vs. performance than the average R/C guy. Any ideas would be nice to consider. I do plan to use the shorter lines since the speed will be less.. I guess.

What is a good source for the little things for this plane?
I really like the phenolic belcranks I've seen in the magazines. And I need a nice adjustable handle. Like I said, I never had a Real plane yet, so I need to pretty much everything. Nothing to be found on our little island, just not enough interest here.

I need to get a new camera for work and I'm hoping to find the time today to get it. I'll post some pictures of the kit and try my best to keep them comming for a build thread. I'm not too reliable on that part, but I will try my best at it.

DM
Old 12-19-2008, 11:50 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
build light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Crete, NE
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

Ahhh! Silk! Don't you know how beautiful it would look with silk?

Sorry, as great as it would look with silk it would be way too heavy to fly well.

Doculam is a document laminating material which is much thinner than what is used for say, your drivers license. It is about a third of the weight of Monokote.

This plane has a long tail moment and tends to build tail heavy because of this. This means that you probably will have to add ballast to the nose to get it to balance. This can be reduced to a minimum by keeping the tail really really light. Sand the tail feathers as much as you think you can, then sand some more... Make it as light as possible.

As for the glue. Keep that as a minimum too.

The lines:
This plane (as I understand it) flies like a full fledged -full size stunt ship and needs the long lines to do so.
You may find that bearly morning or late afternoons might provide less than your 15 MPH winds you speak of. Calm is best if you can get it. Use .008 steel braided lines for light weight and drag.
You should never use a 7 inch prop on any engine that you use on this plane. a 5.25X4 is your best bet.
LT
Old 12-20-2008, 02:55 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Aurora_60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: kaneohe, HI
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

I am writing this before I search, I'm quite tired as it is getting late. Who carries Doculam?
I will definately stay away from the silk... [&o] I'm also thinking of leaving the tail wheel off and using a wire skid in its place. I'll also use some carbon where ever I can, like for the push rod and horns. I don't really see a reason to use the heavy wire for those.

I did find some nice hardware and a really nice handle. I saved the sources to my favorites and I'll post later.

5 1/4" props... okay I will start with one of those. Our trades here begin @ about 8:30 am and last until the evening... blowing at 15 average. Thats too early for me to stop flying! I remember I had a Goldberg Stntman with a 049 TD that I would fly after school (back in the 80s) I could hover the plane into the wind holding full up and keeping my arm down. That was neat! I also could fly a 2 meter glider backwards about 20 feet above my head! Lots of head wind. There are a few guys out at the park, and they're a great bunch. I'm heading out the talk to them on sunday and see what experience they have had.

Thaks for the helpful insight Build Light! I hope your around as I build this bird to steer me in the right direction. I'll try my best to build this as per your name!


DM
Old 12-20-2008, 08:06 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
build light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Crete, NE
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

"I'm also thinking of leaving the tail wheel off and using a wire skid in its place. I'll also use some carbon where ever I can, like for the push rod and horns. I don't really see a reason to use the heavy wire for those."

Good ideas! CF for pushrods is top notch thinking. As for the tailskid, also top notch but since it will only be a skid, make it replaceable and make it out of plastic maybe?

"Our trades here begin @ about 8:30 am and last until the evening... blowing at 15 average. Thats too early for me to stop flying! I remember I had a Goldberg Stntman with a 049 TD that I would fly after school (back in the 80s) I could hover the plane into the wind holding full up and keeping my arm down. That was neat!"

So who says stop flying? when the winds pick up get out your other plane and fly some!
Uh, did I mention you would really want your 'other' plane to be a Stuntman? gere is one now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/STUNTMAN-CONTROL...1%7C240%3A1318
but I suggest you build one from scratch as the wood in many of those old kits was way too heavy. I also suggest maybe a built up wing instead of a sheet wing. A Baby Ringmaster possibly.

This makes me want to design something!

As for covering, don't worry about that for now but do know this, the covering unless kept very light, will make or break whether you will have a great flying plane in the Pinto due to the long tail moment and large area.

Robert
Old 12-20-2008, 03:57 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 4,086
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

I've flown a lot of 1/2A stunt with TD's. I ran them on baby pacifier, or crankcase backplate, pressure. I had good success with a MAS 6 x 3 cut down to 5.5. TD needs to wind up to give power. I flew on 42 ft lines (like 1/2A mouse at the time.) I would fly my 1/2A's in wind where everything else was put up in the van. My airplanes were bigger than a Pinto and weighed 11 - 12 oz. I think a Pinto ought to weigh no more than 8 oz. I used jap tissue to cover. If you are an AMA member, you can look up my "Cheap Thrill" in the Dec '98 Model Aviation.
Old 12-21-2008, 02:52 PM
  #8  
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Madrid, IA
Posts: 234
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

I don't know how heavy you build, but this model will be fine with either the
Monokote or the silk - if you use silk, you will need several coats of clear to
seal it, but clear dope doesn't add that much weight. In any case, I've flown
many, many 1/2A's covered with just about every different available method
and the differences are really rather minor. It is much more important that
the model be large enough to carry the weight. I'm not familiar with the Pinto,
but my electric 1/2A from last year was about 200 sq. inches - and ended up
weighing almost 13 ounces - it would easily do the whole beginner's stunt
pattern on 42 foot lines - with a $15 motor and on a 2-cell battery pack.
This is quite a bit less power than a TD.

I hope to build a new one this winter that comes in closer to 10 ounces, and
I should be able to back off the power a bit and use smaller batteries.

At any rate - whatever they quote the finished weight of the Pinto at, it is
probable that they mean covered with silkspan and a reasonable amount of
dope - Monokote MAY be a little heavier (or it may not - depends on your
personal finishing skills), and silk would probably be a little heavier than
silkspan - just because it will take a couple extra coats of clear to seal. But
anything under 10 or 11 ounces will do fine with a TD. Especially if you are
using this as a re-entry, you aren't probably going to be too concerned with
contest performance anyway- Use whatever you feel most comfortable with.

Mike A
Old 12-21-2008, 08:16 PM
  #9  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Aurora_60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: kaneohe, HI
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

Mike, I do see your point as to the model not having to be a class competitor, and it will be a starting point to get into aerobatic C/L flying.
I don't plan on going too crazy with bashing this kit. The carbon I mentioned is what I have laying around and I am going to build up the tail group in place of the sheet stock provided. I believe the weight savings I'll do in these places might be enough to sacrifice adding some for a nice classic finish. I have never worked with the doculam, but I'd really like to give it try. Time will tell.
The wing is fairly large for an .049 (that I am used to) so the wing loading will be less than anything I have ever had.
I just need to get a camera so I can get some shots of the kit before I start. The malls and stores have stangely been crowded lately.. Someting about a holiday comming up or something.

DM
Old 12-22-2008, 11:51 PM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
build light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Crete, NE
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

Now you can see the original article yourself:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8269476/tm.htm

Seems the plane will do fine without special weight considerations. His came in at 11.5 oz. and had no problem with wind. That being said, he was using .008 dia steel lines. Dacron lines will not deliver as well.

Robert
Old 12-23-2008, 12:51 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Aurora_60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: kaneohe, HI
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

Many Many Thanks for you efforts and starting the other thread Robert. I'm learning quite a bit more than I thought I would, and I haven't even brought out the glue yet! Speaking of glue, I have been using just CAs and epoxies for all my builds. What do you guys use?
I do want a light plane. Building has all but vanished in R/C. Everything is instant ARFs.[:'(] There are still some builders, and the ones that are left are unbelievable. It seems building pretty much stayed the same in C/L. Is that right? I'm told by our local hobby store owner that there are 5 remaining builders here that use silk, and they are all control line fliers.

After reading that article, I can't wait any longer to start this plane. I'm clearing off my table tonight so I should be able to get some work on it tomorrow! I still plan to shoot some pictures before I get started and as I go through this build. Maybe that will be just enough to get Luke inspired as well.
Who knows I just may come down with one of those 24 hour flu colds going around and I just might be stuck alone at home tomorrow..


DM
Old 12-23-2008, 09:39 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
build light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Crete, NE
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

"I'm told by our local hobby store owner that there are 5 remaining builders here that use silk, and they are all control line fliers. "
And what happens when they are gone? That hobby shop will no longer carry those items...

There is so much satisfaction when one builds their own models. It is one thing to show someone what you just bought or ordered but it is somthing else when you can say this is what I built.

" I do want a light plane"
Of course you do. It means you want to do more than fly. It means you want to fly well. Ask anyone who actually competes in C/L Stunt or combat if trying to build light counts.

As for glue, some CA is ok but but only where the parts fit is immaculate. Better still would be titebond glue or other wood glue. The there are actually two tricks.
1. use a toothpick to apply the glue. This will help ensure you don't use so much. Big no no to slop the glue on. if you can see the glue running down outside the joint, you applied too much.

2. use the double glue method. This is where you apply glue on each piece, put it in place for a few minutes then remove it. Let it dry another few minutes then add more glue and pin each piece in place to bond. Done right it makes a wonderful glue joint without adding extra weight.

Quote by Mike A:
"I'm not familiar with the Pinto,
but my electric 1/2A from last year was about 200 sq. inches - and ended up
weighing almost 13 ounces - it would easily do the whole beginner's stunt
pattern on 42 foot lines"
Read the Pinto article and see what Dick Mathis did with his! You too might want to build one! Ya gotta admit it is eye catchingly beautiful!

Robert
Old 12-24-2008, 01:14 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Aurora_60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: kaneohe, HI
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

Well I finally got some pictures of the kit. Sorry about the poor quality, I used my phone.

The kit is Excelent! All the wood is better than the wood I can find at my LHS.
The laser cutting is just as nice. They even identify each piece using the laser to label them!!

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Us54836.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	32.1 KB
ID:	1095543   Click image for larger version

Name:	Bu57929.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	32.7 KB
ID:	1095544   Click image for larger version

Name:	Jl94691.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	38.7 KB
ID:	1095545   Click image for larger version

Name:	Rd32785.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	34.7 KB
ID:	1095546  
Old 12-24-2008, 01:16 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Aurora_60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: kaneohe, HI
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

The formers are cut through and packaged in a small bag.

DM
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Wu60956.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	39.8 KB
ID:	1095549  
Old 12-24-2008, 01:47 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Aurora_60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: kaneohe, HI
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

I just discovered that the holes in the ribs are set up for using an Adjusto-jig! [X(]No linning up or drilling!
I can't find my rods for my jig, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to continue.

DM
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Us54588.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	16.7 KB
ID:	1095555  
Old 12-26-2008, 05:08 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
Aurora_60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: kaneohe, HI
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!

I got a couple of hours in tonight. I sanded the dark marks caused by laser cutting off the pieces for the wing and postioned them onto the jig. Having them pre-drilled for the jig is Really nice. I have the trailing edge sheeting, top and bottom, glued in. The leading edge is also glued in, but I could only get the top L/E sheeting on. The chord is so small, I'll have to remove the wing to finish the bottom.
The jig is great. It holds the ribs securely in place and keeps them at 90'. Someone really should consider making them again.

I'll have to cut the spars, leading edge sheeting and trailing edge sheeting after I pull the will off the jig. I'll try to find time in the next couple days.


DM
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Kh17447.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	44.9 KB
ID:	1096772   Click image for larger version

Name:	Je11110.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	45.3 KB
ID:	1096773  
Old 12-26-2008, 10:57 AM
  #17  
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,252
Received 12 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

I wanted to give you some covering ideas. First of all, I would paint your fuselage with dope and then cover the open areas. Covering material just does not stick over the long haul when it is close to the engine. Check out these links. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXGDV8&P=7
http://www.antiquemodeler.org/Model%...20Polyspan.htm
http://www.faimodelsupply.com/starline-polyspan.htm

Good luck. Great looking model. I would also recommend a pressure fuel system. I prefer bladders. I have never had good luck getting 1\2 A engines to draw fuel from tanks. The reason why I mention this is it is good to decide this while building so you can make an appropriate bladder compartment now.
Old 12-26-2008, 09:53 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
build light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Crete, NE
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

Dick Mathis' article goes into some detail regarding the fuel draw and the importance of fuel tank position.
I second the bladder tank as the best choice.

As for covering I think the best choice of all is to use the included lite silkspan. At only 12g per square meter no iron on covering can beat that as for weight and it will seal faster and with less coats than silk or pretty much any cloth fabric. It did come with the lite silkspan, right?

Robert
Old 12-27-2008, 12:11 PM
  #19  
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,252
Received 12 Likes on 11 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

The problem with silkspan is, it is to fragile to punctures. Also you can fix them but it is a pain. I would prefer to have a dimple to shrink out, that a puncture to patch. That was always the downside of silkspan.
Old 12-31-2008, 07:54 PM
  #20  
 
stuntflyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 1,891
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: The Pinto.. my first "Real" C/L plane

I use polyspan on all open bays. Free Flight guys use it on everything. 3 coats of dope fills it. It's as puncture resistant as Monocote. .02 oz carbon veil on all of the structure. The carbon veil makes it tough and it's light as tissue. Apply with dope.
There used to be a lot of interest in 1/2A Stunt at the Nats in the 80's. Guys were building 200 to 250 sq models of their big stunters and using Tee Dee's then. Tanks were usually uniflow square hard tanks. A Norvel or Wasp 061 is what I would use today and the draw is awesome. Models flew well at 10 -11 oz.
Chris...

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.