Engine for Ringmaster
 

I recently was able to get my hands on a Ringmaster kit. The .35 size profile. I will be using it to make templates for scratch building. When I flew one of these before I used an OS 35 FP but have since converted that engine for RC use. I want to get another engine for the Ringmaster. What would be a good engine for this plane. I saw that Super Tigre now has a 34 CL engine. I can't see the logic in paying $65 for an OS 40 LA when I could get a ball bearing ST for the same price. What are your suggestions?

Thanks,
Brian

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

The power designed for the ringmaster was an old Fox 35. It's your basic 9 ounce, anemic stick spinner. Your target engines produce about twice the power. You could probably pick up a used Fox 35 or 29 on Ebay for as little as 20 bucks is my cheapest, never go over 30. Generally they are just broken in or run fairly well. You can also send a engine of any kind, Broken, torn or worn out, to Fox Manufacturing and get a brand new Fox 35 for half their listed price (bout 50 bucks) OR you could buy an OS 25 LA CL version new or off the bay and that would be equivalent power, cheaper fuel than the Fox (it'd need castor fuel) and it wouldn't vibrate near as much.

I'd probably go with the LA 25.

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

The bearings in the Tigre certainly cost the Chinese a bit more to produce that engine, but there really isn't much more worth in them.

Back in the day, OS made an excellent 35S for CL stunt. It was an excellent engine. I've still got every one of them I ever bought. And I flew the devil out of them. And they've got plain bearings in them. I usually wore out the piston/sleeve/wristpin/conrod's about twice before the nose ever showed any blowout fuel.

Don't make your decision based on the bearings.

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

BTW, Tower lists the Fox .35 in their catalog. It's about the same price. That adds a third engine to the list.

If I were going to buy one of the three, my first choice would be the OS40LA-S. It probably will run much like the 35S of old.

Super Tigre's popular CL stunt engines were pretty much just one, the 46, that would come close to fitting a Ringmaster. It was a hugely popular engine. I would bet that this new one probably isn't very much like the original. But I don't have any experience with the Chinese tigres. So it's just a guess.

I really wouldn't bother with the Fox.

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

BTW, what is the advertised weight of that Tigre?

Tower shows the RC 40 at just under 20oz. The OS40LA-S shows a weight with muffler of 12oz. The ringmaster was designed for engines around 9 ounces without a muffler.

The OS25 actually is 9oz with it's muffler. And would work on the Ringmaster great.

I'd think the OS40 would do well, but would also do great if you moved on to Nobler etc.

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

I've got a Brodak 25 on mine and it's perfect.

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

Tower has the RC version of the ST 34 on their web site and says that it weighs a hair over 12 oz with muffler. So the CL version should be the same if not a tiny bit lighter. Regardless, about the same as the OS 40.

Brian

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

YO!!! 25 is the engine power and weight you'd be happier with. Unless you like going around in the circle really really fast. In this case you don't really need the ringmaster, just a stick with a counterweight.

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy or do what you want, but come on, modern 34's to 46's listed for something designed to fly with a pukey 35?

Not a lot of nose room for tank either.

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

If you build light a Ringmaster will fly with a modern .15. Most (I think) use a .25 which has all the extra power you need.

A modern .40 is great, but not for such a small plane.

As someone mentioned, a modern .25 also vibrates much less than the old Fox .35. If you are building it for Old Time Stunt, the Fox is great. You didn't say which model you have, the S1 is eligible for OTS, the S1-A (the one with the sheeted leading edge) is not.

I have a Fox .35 on my S1.

George

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

Mine is the S1-A. I will probably try a .25 That's about the only displacement that I don't have right now so I suppose that's as good an excuse as any to buy a new engine, right? As I remember, my .35FP had waaaay more power than I needed but it flew great!

Brian

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

It was discovered by stunt flyers (precision aerobatics) years ago that it was easy to convert power into pull on the lines. And we didn't do it with speed, just power.

Use more fan (prop diameter) when you've got the engine to do it. Sort out the lap times with the pitch.

Most Ringmasters I saw were from the Sterling kit and built heavy. They were sorta heavy for the wing area. The one detail that seemed to hurt their flying was the elevator movement. They often could deflect 90degrees. They didn't need much at all. A lot of beginners got into trouble by overcontrolling.

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

Excellent point! My S1 controls are set at minimum and provide about 20 degrees from neutral. For one already built, deflection can be controled by line spacing at the handle. Also make sure that bellcrank movement is not transmitting excessive force to the elevator and stab at full deflection (elevator fully deflected with more movement available at the bellcrank).

This may only apply to the S1 but make sure the joint for the wing halves is well done. This was a weak point in the old "cement" days and many wings folded in flight.

George

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

My best flying Ringmaster was also an S-1A with a Fox 35 spinning a Master Airscrew 9.5-6. With the Fox, just make sure you use a high oil content fuel - 28 to 29% is about right.

A modern 35 or 40 is just way too much for the 'ring. An LA 25 or the new Brodak 25 would be an ideal match and you can use more traditional fuels with 20-22% oil.

I once flew a Flite Streak with an FP 35 and it was way overpowered.

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

If I use the LA 25 what line size and length should I use?

Brian

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

I have a Ringmaster with an OS FP 25 on it, my buddy flies his with an older Fox .25 (4 bolt backplate). Both fly very nicely on 60' X .018. You can use .015 on the .25 powered ships but our flying areas are "Improvised" and usually include weeds, rocks, sand etc. So we stick with the .018 lines for durability.

Both planes are stock from kits, not especially light, and still needed tailweight to balance. The Fox .35 that it was designed for is a pretty light engine, modern engines with mufflers almost always make the older Sterling Profile series designs noseheavy. Even with a couple extra ounces of lead bolted to the tailend my O.S. 25 powered RM is a good sport flier, does decent loops, wingovers, and 8's. Follow the advice posted previously and keep the elevator travel down to about 1/2 -3/4 inch up and down. Too much travel and it acts more like an air brake than a control surface. Get a handle you can adjust the line spacing on and start out with 2 1/2 to 3''. You can go wider after a few flights if you think it is not responsive enough.

The Ringmaster is not as good a flier as my ARF Flite Streak was with the same engine, but the Flite Streak is a pile of broken peices from a crash that the Ringmaster might have broken the prop on. They are fairly tough, easy to repair, easy to fly. Have fum

RE: Engine for Ringmaster
 

The 'ring is a small airplane and likely won't weigh over 30oz (especially if it's the S-1A version). The LA 25 has as much or more power than the venerable Fox 25 so start with .015" diameter stranded lines 60' in length. Current AMA competition regulations allow up to a .2550 cu. in engine while using .012" diameter lines but most folks find the .012's a little "stretchy".

I've flown my Fox 35 powered example on lines as short as 57'.