Hi all

I have a cox .049 babe bee and i dont know if i am running it right. I got this air boss park flyer from herr engineering. its meant to be powered with electric but i put my babe bee on it. went to flying (try to fly) today. but i couldnt.


a link for it is
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXBDF5&P=7

the plane has 214.5 sq in (35 inch span) wing area and mine weighs oriund 13 ounce flying weight.

kit suggests 280 speed motor fo the plane.

but it didnt have enough power to gain altitude. i started the engine tried to find the point where it screams the most by turning the needle and toss it. it could fly straigh for a while (in fact it could fly fairly long) but with the slightest up elevator or rudder input it stalled. it didnt dive towards to ground but it lost altitude. whenever i gave up elevator it climbed juuust a little bit then thats it. and i am thinking that i didnt have enough power.

This cox engine is brand new and is my first glow engine to operate. i tried to break it in as it said on the istructions. but it was so hard to find the max rpm by turning the needle valve. it feels like it runs ok but i dont even know if i am getting the max out of it.

so my question is is this normal. i mean does the babe bee have only this much power. or did i ruin the engine during break in or am i doing something wrong that i can try to fix. should i get me a texaco to fly this?

encan

The airframe that you have choosen has a lot of drag, and for the engine you are using the plane would have to be about 8-9oz. and even then it would be marginal, you will need a Norvel 074 for this plane, or similar engine, even a late style os 10 fp nv would be ok, but will bring the wing loading up quite a bit

Fastlash, you're being a bit harsh on the Baby Bee. The plane looks good and the weight, if it's right, is excellent. With the power a Baby Bee SHOULD be making it should be flying just fine. Encan is a beginner (this is his first glow engine) and the 074 would make this model a real hotrod.

Encan, what fuel and prop are you using?

The fuel for these small engines needs to be at least 15% nitro and in reality that is just barely enough. They really run much better with 25% nitro.

The prop should be a 6x3. The most commonly available one that is of decent quality and will resist some landing damage is the Master Airscrew ones. You may also find some Tornado brand props as well depending on where you shop. Those are pretty good too. And if Cox still makes the GOOD plastic ones they are nice as well. But beware of the crummy plastic ones that Cox sells for use on their Ready To Crash stuff. They really are awful, lots of noise and no pull.

thanks for the replies

i am using a cooking scale which my girlfriend using for cooking so it has some error for sure but it shows right under 12 ounce

i m using hobbicos 1/2A fuel that is 25% and the prop is Cox 6x3 Nylon Propeller. i really think that i didnt have enough power for that airplane. is it possible that i messed the engine up during the break in and it is not running well now??

would a texaco .049 or black widow .049 be too much. or how is the norvel .049 c/l engine??

Wasn't being harsh just telling as I see it I didn't say anything bad about the baby bee, but to get down to it since YOU brought it up, No throttle on a newbie type plane is not the best, and cause this plane can ROG, and a very short run time with the stock tank, yes the o74 is a little over kill but that is what the throttle is for, I would have suggested the 061 but the 074 is more user friendly, I wasn't approaching this as a cox vs. Norvel but giving what I believe is solid advise, if I would have suggested a tee dee you wouldn't have been so quick to jump on me, if iam wrong, well so be it

a plane of that size and weight should be a hoot to fly with a black widow so it should still fly well with a babe bee, must be something wrong with that engine. the cox engines are really hard to hurt during break-in so it must be something else. make sure the tank, venturi, and reed are clean and that all gaskets are good and leak free.

if you do get it to run good your next problem will be a very short run time as fastlash said in the post above. if you're on a budget (or just plain cheap) go to a swap meet and find yourself one of the product engines that cox sells with their RTF toys. the newer "sure start" engines are great runners. these engines don't have an integral tank so you can use any size tank you want (within reason).

dave

well just to stay dead in the middle, fire up that cox at about 2.5 turns out and close the needle back about an 1/8 of a turn at a time until its screaming like its scary, then back 1 notch and let it fly, course its only gonna run for 1 minute any way, I have no idea what the baby bee was for ,but I'm sure there was some "class" for it, anyway once you find the magic sound it should be half way between "marginal and a hoot"and at least be able to climb,, but for future reference this is the kind of thing you ask BEFORE you buy the engine..Rog


prolly find an old blackwidow on ebay and can scavange the tank and screws off it or use yours to overhaul it

Weird stuff Encan!!! A Cox reed valve engine should have little problems with that plane. I doubt you hurt the engine during break in so don't worry about that. The new Babe Bee's are real good out of the box. How old is this engine you have? You could try cutting down the prop to 5 or 5.5 inches to get the rpm up. Are you handy with power tools? If so you can open up the hole in the tank tube. This will help alot on power but your run time will go down hill with only a 5cc tank. I'm sure a Black Widow would do the job better as it has the 8cc tank, larger venturi and better cylinder so you would look at a 3,000rpm increase. Do you have any other Cox engine or parts now?


Later,
Tim

Hi encan,

This may be a silly question but are you sure the curved part of the propeller blade is pointing toward the front? If it's on bass-ackward, the thrust will be dramatically reduced.

Good point DB. The other way to tell is that the little numbers molded on the blades in by the hub should be on the front side of the prop. And just saying it's a Cox nylon 6x3 doesn't mean that it's not one of the bad ones they used on the control line RTF models. If it's one of the stiffer props that looks like a Master Airscrew type then it should be fine.

My experience with Baby Bees is that they will run for between 1 1/2 to 2 minutes on 25%. And for a dizzy little kid in the center of a control line circle that seemed like just about forever...

In the past I've flown a 10 oz 30 inch span model on a PeeWee 020. I also flew a Jr Falcon with my old original Baby Bee and even at well over 20 oz it still climbed strongly enough to get me in trouble and crash on the first flight near the end of the run. Based on all that I figure a basic Babe Bee should be able to fly this thing fine but not in an overly fast manner.

Thanks everybody trying to help me.

the engine was brand new. ive spent half of the 1/2 pint fuel with it.

yes i am sure that the prop is right way.

i opened up the tank yesterday and cleaned inside of the tank and parts. i will try again soon.

Try a Master Airscrew 6x3 prop. If that prop is turning up some good rpm, then the plane should have power to fly. If it just weighs 13 ozs there should be no problem.
How about balance, is it nose heavy? Did you do a test glide to see how well it flys with no power?
That is a neat looking plane it should do well with a .049
I have a new babe bee on my LS150 and will give a first flight report very soon!

Yep, I'd tackle the prop issue. Use a Tornado 5X3 or 5.5X3 and let it scream. One thing I think has not been mentioned is to remove all but one of the copper shims, or gaskets under the glow head. Sometimes that makes it harder to start the engine, but it will increase the compression a little bit, and that may help. Check the C.G. also: you don't want a tail heavy airplane. Good luck!

I think that the eqvivalent to your .049 is a Speed 400, therefore it should really haul it around. Most competitive 1/2A Texaco models use a wingspan close to 40 in. with an area of 300 sq. in. and will weigh as much or more than the Air Boss. My 1/2A Rambler will almost disappear after a good engine run. Jim

You might also pull the head and see if the cylinder is varnished up, my tee dee when new would do this and slow down, I was also using alittle extra castor oil

By the way Encan, these little Cox engines don't really need any break in to speak of. A slightly rich off peak first run and then go for broke. It's good if you avoid running lean for the first 1/2 dozen or so runs though.

If you broke it in using the classic big engine method of sloppy rich and slowly leaned it out over a number of runs then it may be varnished up as fastlash suggests. If the insides of the cylinder are a brown color instead of just grey steel then that is the case. Clean it out with a little fine steel wool and lacquer thinner or acetone. Use gloves, that stuff is nasty on your skin or use the steel wool wrapped around a little bit of stick to avoid the solvent. DO NOT USE ANYTHING LIKE SANDPAPER OR OTHER ABRASIVES.

Oh, you can also use a fine abrasive like toothpaste or a fine household cleaner like VIM. If it feels gritty to your fingers then it's too coarse and you should not use it. If you use these products then use them lightly and check often. Stop as soon as the brown is gone. A stick of balsa is a good scrubbing tool for the toothpaste. Remove the glow plug and then the cylinder from the rest of the engine using the tools you got with it. Do not use anything that squeezes the cylinder. The steel is soft and WILL bend ruining your engine.

thanks for the replies

Bmatthews i just opened up the cylinder. the walls of the cylinder and the piston looks fine the however the top of the piston is just brown and it doesnt seem it will get silver color with toothpaste???

STOP ! ! !

The tops of the Cox pistons are copper plated. You don't need or want to take that off. The only places to worry about are the cylinder walls and piston skirt. If you get a buildup of varnished up oil there then it'll make the engine tight. That's what we were reffering too.

Bmathews thanks for warning i didnot remove anything from piston or the cylinder. I dont know what is wrong. probbably its because im inexperienced. but i cleaned it and will try i guess tomorrow again.

BUT i have another problem now. i dont even know how did happened but my glowhead stuck. it wont come out with those cox wrenches. i hurt my hands trying. the wrench bent a little bit and look what happened to the head. the wrench wont hold it anymore. is there any way you think to take it out.

and here are some pics of what ive been trying to fly. the wing was in the car so its just the fuse.

ps. this was my first experience with monokote so crappy covering job and the front landing gear broke when i land hard last time i tried to fly.

and also is there any movies with sound showing a babe bee running at max rpm. anybody knows?? so that i can compare it with mine??

Encan, Yep that prop is too big. I'll bet it is a 6X3 at least. Use some dykes and cut it down to 5.5 inches long. But only if it is a plastic, bendable propeller. I don't think I would cut on a stiff, glass filled prop. Be sure to balance it after doing modifications to it, and sand the edges smooth. Then let her rip!

mechanic;

that prop is a 6x3 prop which is suggested for babe bee.

For that glow plug you can use a metal file or a hacksaw to cut the torn grooves away and leave two long flats so that you can use a normal open end wrench or adjustable wrench to remove the glowplug. If you had it off before you obviously tightened it WAY too much. If it's factory then just roll your eyes and don't follow their example. It's hard to judge if you don't turn a lot of wrenches but if you are using a Cox flat metal wrench to put on the plug the edges of the wrench should not hurt your hand or leave any indents in your skin with the proper torque. Basically finger tighten it and then put about as much force on it using the wrench as lifting a gallon jug of water. That should do it.

Encan, dude, It is suggested, but you need performance! These little engines have the most power when they are wound up like a screaming mimi (meemee). And it sounds like you need power with the "mush" it made after launch! For real, man, get some smaller props or cut your's down. It makes all the difference in the world.

Try a 5x3 cox prop and see if that helps. I will start out with a 6x3 Master Airscrew but if that doesn't work out I'll go to a 5x3 cox. I have used a cox 5x3 on my Black Widow and the engine really screamed but I don't think the plane was any faster. I have never used a cox 6x3 but it does look large for that engine. The Master Airscrew props are very narrow and not as fat as the cox.

i went to try to fly again today. it was a little bit windy but i couldnt wait. it was much better than the last time. i could fly a little longer. but im still thinking my babe bee was not enough.

ok now with my friends camera i was able to capture some videos. i want to post them here but how?? when i try to upload it with upload image button of course the files are not supported.

how can i upload them??

the plane is still in one piece. im thinking to buy a black widow if everything fails
but i want to be sure that black widow will have enough power to climb.