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GP Big Stik 60 wing departed-Will Great Planes help?

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GP Big Stik 60 wing departed-Will Great Planes help?

Old 02-02-2014, 07:00 PM
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flyerdave
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Default GP Big Stik 60 wing departed-Will Great Planes help?

Flying straight and level with no high stress going on during this flight. Had a stock supertigre 90 on the front.As the pictures show, I had coated the leading edge laminated plywood pin with epoxy at the time of wing joining. This plywood pin snapped off and the fuselage became a lawn dart. The guys at the field are telling me that it would be worth contacting Great Planes to see if they would help with replacing the airplane. If I didn't feel that this was a result of defective materials, I would just trash it and forget about it. Has anyone had any a simular problem with a plane from GP? If so has anyone been able to get them to help with replacing the plane? Thanks for the help.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:36 PM
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manks7477
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I would buy a new fuse, fix the wing and get her back in the air!
Old 02-03-2014, 05:19 PM
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If this was an ARF and you followed their assembly instructions and didn't waver any, then I would get hold of them and see what they say... it certainly looks like a weak link to me.

John M,
Old 02-04-2014, 10:35 AM
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I think that if this was a manufacturing or materials flaw we would have heard of hundreds if not thousands of complaints regarding this failure. However, this is the first I've heard of it. I really have to take the "flying straight and level" bit with a grain of salt.
Old 02-04-2014, 04:54 PM
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flyerdave
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Originally Posted by countilaw
I think that if this was a manufacturing or materials flaw we would have heard of hundreds if not thousands of complaints regarding this failure. However, this is the first I've heard of it. I really have to take the "flying straight and level" bit with a grain of salt.
Not really concerned about how you take the "flying straight and level" statement. The intent of my original post is only to find out if (a) anyone has ever had a simular experience with this plane and (b) to gain some feedback on whether it might be worth the effort to contact great planes regarding this. Thanks to everyone for the responses.
Old 02-06-2014, 06:01 PM
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Flyerdave I got one with the exact engine set. A blast to fly too, I guess I need to keep an eye on it. I have not had any problems so far though.
Old 02-10-2014, 03:48 PM
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There are several guys at the field that I attend that have this plane. I've seen them do some pretty drastic flying with them and yet has had a wing failure as this one. And definitely no one flying "straight and level" have had this happen. This is a great trainer as I have taught many new fliers to fly with this plane. I've had to use some severe elevator corrections as well. Never had this happen at the bottom of a dive or spin.

Frank
Old 02-11-2014, 09:55 AM
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If you don't ask the answer is always "No". I would talk to Great Planes they have great customer service and have good people willing to help. If anything they will give a customer the benefit of the doubt. Now I'm not saying they will do something in this case but I will say they will listen and won't blow you off either. They make/sell good reliable products and they will more than likely know what happened. Call them!
Old 02-11-2014, 03:03 PM
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SushiHunter
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Do these ARF's have such a thing as a batch number or any type of way to find out who at the plant assembled it? Could mean that perhaps one of the assemblers didn't follow proper protocol and many of these units that this specific assembler put together are defective. GP would have to cooperate though for this to be proven. Good luck.
Old 02-13-2014, 10:58 AM
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The piece in question is part of and consist of the center ribs. The two wing halves are epoxied together. Upon close inspection, these tabs were broken from right to left. The tab was not sheared off by upward force such as a wing lifting off the fuselage. If the wing departed from the wing in an upward motion, the tabs would have sheared off cleanly. As you can see in the photo, the starboard tab is broken off further back than the port wing panel. Therefore, these tabs were broken by a sideways force, not a lifting force.

Frank
Old 02-13-2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by flyerdave
Flying straight and level with no high stress going on during this flight. Had a stock supertigre 90 on the front.As the pictures show, I had coated the leading edge laminated plywood pin with epoxy at the time of wing joining. This plywood pin snapped off and the fuselage became a lawn dart. The guys at the field are telling me that it would be worth contacting Great Planes to see if they would help with replacing the airplane. If I didn't feel that this was a result of defective materials, I would just trash it and forget about it. Has anyone had any a simular problem with a plane from GP? If so has anyone been able to get them to help with replacing the plane? Thanks for the help.

kinda looks like epoxy is coating the area of the break.
Old 02-13-2014, 01:56 PM
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SushiHunter
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Originally Posted by Mpizpilot
kinda looks like epoxy is coating the area of the break.
Yeah.....it does appear that way.
Old 02-13-2014, 02:03 PM
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SushiHunter
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Originally Posted by countilaw
The piece in question is part of and consist of the center ribs. The two wing halves are epoxied together. Upon close inspection, these tabs were broken from right to left. The tab was not sheared off by upward force such as a wing lifting off the fuselage. If the wing departed from the wing in an upward motion, the tabs would have sheared off cleanly. As you can see in the photo, the starboard tab is broken off further back than the port wing panel. Therefore, these tabs were broken by a sideways force, not a lifting force.

Frank
True perhaps if the plane was flying perfectly straight (0 pitch, roll or yaw) at the time of the mishap. Can it be proven that the plane was flying perfectly straight at the time of the mishap? How about weather conditions? Would a company be liable if, for example, a very strong gust of wind caused the plane to get damaged while in flight?
Old 02-14-2014, 04:24 AM
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flyerdave
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Hey guys, I get it, you are no more skeptical than I was or the other two guys at the flying field who watched the departure. We have now "dug out" of all this snow and ice and maybe I will have time today to contact great planes and we will see how it goes. If they are unable to help with it, then I will probably order another fuse and repair the wing. I will have to come up with a different way of holding down the wing leading edge, maybe two hardwood dowels.Anyway, despite all of the skepticism, I appreciate the responses.This is the 5th stick that I have owned over my 34 years of flying and I love the way they fly.
Old 02-14-2014, 07:01 PM
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I have a 40 Stick Arf. I had an issue with the tabs when new. It almost seemed like the die cut put too much stress on the tab and one had a crack. I ended up epoxying the two halves together and put it on my mill. I cut a 3/16" groove in the center about 5/8" deep and stopped about 1/4" in front of the main spar. I made a new tab out of some quality ply. Not that it's a bad design, I just thought I would beef it up instead of trying to get parts or taking a chance the way it was. Been flying with no problems. Sorry about your crash. Hopefully GP with help you out!
Old 02-17-2014, 08:25 PM
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This has happened before, at least in the .40 size GP ARF. In the video, the wing comes off at about 2:30 (turn the volume down if you are offended by a little cursing. LOL) At about 6:40, the builder explains how the front tab has failed before on this model. The plane in the video was modified; the tab was evidently replaced by a dowel. It failed, nonetheless.

The plane in this video was clearly under high positive-G stress as it exited a loop.

I just built the .40 GP ARF, and am getting worried about the integrity of the wing mounting system. I am thinking of adding two dowels to the wing, and two holes in the fuselage to "back up" the tab. Has anyone else made a similar modification? If so, how did you do it, and how well did it work?

If I were you, I would try to talk GP into giving you a new fuselage kit and tail, at the least. If the wing can be repaired easily, this will get you back into the air.
(Edit looking back at the pictures of the remains, you will likely need a new wing too. See if GP will spring for a new kit. )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJDXm7p_Ygc

Last edited by N410DC; 02-17-2014 at 09:06 PM.
Old 02-17-2014, 08:54 PM
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I took a look at my .40 Stick. Looks like the tab only extends 15mm or so from the leading edge of the wing. When I put the wing on the fuse, I noticed that there was a gap (1 mm or so) between the leading edge of the wing and the fuselage. I don't like the idea of air being forced into the fuse, so I sealed the gap with a strip of 1/8" wing seating tape. I wonder if some of these failures may have been caused by air being forced under the wing, and into the fuse.

I used a healthy amount of epoxy when I joined the wings, and clamped the tab halves together as the epoxy dried. I was still able to inset a fingernail between the halves this evening. I filled the gap with CA. I hope this helps.

See the pictures below for clarification.


L-R: (1)Wing tab, (2) Gap at leading edge of wing sealed by mounting tape (3) Mounting tape on fuselage
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Last edited by N410DC; 02-17-2014 at 08:58 PM.
Old 02-18-2014, 08:44 AM
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I'm starting to think that body flex is one of the primary factors resulting in the failure. The other factor would be the tabs being too short. Flexing + short tabs = multiples of sadness. When the wing is attached to the fuselage, is there any play? I've been building plane kits for years and I always put a lot of focus on the area where the wings and fuselage connect together and along the fuselage from the tail section to the trailing edge of the wings to prevent body flex, especially since most of my kits I build were designed decades ago and I'm putting in modern power plant technology.

Last edited by SushiHunter; 02-18-2014 at 08:50 AM.
Old 02-19-2014, 05:50 AM
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That looks like light ply and I don't think that is strong enough for that kind of stress . It might be okay for a trainer but even then trainers are often subjected too some tremendous amounts of stress . I think it should have two wing pins . That's a lot of motor . I think it a very poor design . I have a Escapade that has the same type of wing mount system . I am going to change it when I assemble it . I just don't trust it . a single wing pin might fail if you get into trouble and yank on the stick ,or even if you just get a little extra speed on in a dive and need to pull out . I will be surprized if they replace your plane because if they do they will be admitting the flaw and then they likely will have a lot of planes to replace but good luck . I hope they do .They should . I have always had good luck with them but only in the pre built stage. The guarantee only lasts as long as it is not built . With in reason . They will look at things like no glue on the fire wall or landing gear but you might need to send the remains in for them to look at .
Old 02-19-2014, 07:15 AM
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Have you contacted great Planes yet?
Old 02-19-2014, 08:54 AM
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No big deal it's an ARF, not like months were spent building it. Just go out and buy another one. That's what I would do with the ARF I bought. I've got a Hangar 9 Alpha 40 that I purchased roughly a year ago so I could get in some "quick satisfaction" while building my SIG Kougar and Komet. I still fly it these days since it's a pretty convenient and no worries little plane. If I crashed the Alpha, no worries, it's an ARF, I'd just go out and buy another one if I wanted to. At best, use this experience as a lessons learned, make some modifications and move forward.

Last edited by SushiHunter; 02-19-2014 at 08:58 AM.
Old 02-19-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SushiHunter
No big deal it's an ARF, not like months were spent building it. Just go out and buy another one. That's what I would do with the ARF I bought. I've got a Hangar 9 Alpha 40 that I purchased roughly a year ago so I could get in some "quick satisfaction" while building my SIG Kougar and Komet. I still fly it these days since it's a pretty convenient and no worries little plane. If I crashed the Alpha, no worries, it's an ARF, I'd just go out and buy another one if I wanted to. At best, use this experience as a lessons learned, make some modifications and move forward.
Many people cannot afford to spend $150+ every time an ARF crashes (up to $400-$500 if the engine and/or radio gear are destroyed.) Whether a kit is an ARF or a regular "traditional" kit, I should hope that a highly reputable manufacturer such as Great Planes would stand behind their products.
Old 02-19-2014, 01:11 PM
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I don't think that's good enough . When there is a serious structural failure like that it could easily cause an injury to somebody . That should be engineered out before that happens in my opinion . I don't really think the few dollars that it costs us is the important part . I think the important part is the danger that can be caused by that particular wing joining system.
Old 02-19-2014, 01:25 PM
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I hate to say it but this thread has become nothing but a lot of conjecture at this point. I don't see any post saying GP has been contacted and if so what they said. I would have thought by now if the thread owner was serious about getting the airplane replaced he would have done so by now.
Old 02-19-2014, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyerInOKC
I hate to say it but this thread has become nothing but a lot of conjecture at this point. I don't see any post saying GP has been contacted and if so what they said. I would have thought by now if the thread owner was serious about getting the airplane replaced he would have done so by now.
That's true. I doubt GP will do anything though about it. They may take in lesson learned to correct it from here on out. Not sure if they will do anything more for you though.

Confucius once said: "it wasn't the failure that did the damage....it was the sudden stop."

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