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GP Lancair wing failure

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GP Lancair wing failure

Old 10-14-2004, 09:50 AM
  #26  
CGRetired
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

Aren't you sorry you posted that here? No sympaty just criticism. Isn' that the way.
Old 10-14-2004, 10:17 AM
  #27  
NOVAflier
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

Hiding behind a monitor makes it easy for anyone to be an a-hole.

However, it does look like there was not sufficient epoxy. You can see the QC stamp on the inside of the wing, as well as the rolled over covering...however, no real epoxy residue...

Not sure what caused the failure...can we see more pics?
Old 10-14-2004, 11:11 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

I agree.

There is a tad bit of difference between constructive criticism and downrite nasty comments. Ok.. if there was not enough epoxy, then I am sure the owner has taken note and need not be browbeaten into pulp by readers that were not there nor have a financial connection with the plane in question. If I crash one, I take responsibility as the original poster has. He has probably listened, learned, and bought more epoxy.

I broke my brand new Tiger 60 a few weeks ago, not because of the eopxy issue but the horizontal stab popped off after a rough landing... not near enough epoxy in the right places. It was not damaged in any way, took me an evening to re-align the thing, put gobs of epoxy, wipe off the residu, let it set overnight, reconnected the linkage, and have had 20 or so flights since then. Live and learn is tough enough without incessant brow beating on the subject.
Old 10-14-2004, 02:55 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

OK, here is the photo of the other wing with the 2 root ribs still glued together.
I hope that this makes it a bit clearer.

[img][/img]
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Old 10-14-2004, 02:57 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

FRIESIAN - Your whining worked with Great Planes but it's not going to here. You send us a picture of one dry root rib with covering wrapped around it, the QA stamp visible and the sheeting and spars sanded flush to it. And blame it on the wing joiner(?) Several replied they see the same thing and question the glue joint. Your response is we are all blind and have no business questioning your building ability. And you have pictures to prove it. Pictures that you could have posted right after the first reply that indicated there could be a problem with your glue joint. But you didn't. Your right, I wasn't there when you glued the wing halves together. And I can't imagine someone who has built 30 ARF's NOT gluing the root ribs together. But then again, I can't imagine someone with my experience in this hobby NOT making sure an Rx crystal is secured with the foam wrap or taped in. The results can be seen right here in RCU's Crash Thread. The only difference is that I didn't run to HiTec and get my money back. Even though other people have had similar happen to them with the Electron Rx's.

NOVA - I stated the obvious. For that your calling me names? That must be one large monitor you staring into.

DICK - If you bothered to read the whole thread you would see that the owner did NOT take responsibility for the crash. He spent 7 weeks getting a refund! Otherwise this thread would have been about 3 posts long ending with… "Man, sorry for your loss…".
And we all have a financial stake in manufacturers costs.

EDH13
Old 10-14-2004, 03:05 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

edh - I think that we posted at the same time!
Does this photo explain things a little better?
I thought that the first photos that I had posted were clear enough, but maybe thats because I had seen the wing first hand.
This photo shows it much clearer, I should have posted this one first.
I really wish that it still looked like this
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Old 10-14-2004, 03:37 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

Thank You for posting that wing root pic. It explains your position perfectly. It looks like they added a ply(?) sub-rib to their wing panels and THEY didn't glue it properly. I'm sorry for the criticism and you were diffidently within your rights to ask for a refund! I hope you can see where I came to the conclusions I did with the first pics. I've never seen a wing go together like the one on this ARF. Good looking plane and the attention to detail is obvious.

EDH13
Old 10-14-2004, 04:51 PM
  #33  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

First of all, I don't believe I am lowering myself to answering your repsonse.. you know what they say... dignify your comments by a reply, but you assume something that you have absolutely no right assuming. You do not know me, I don't post on here very often but when I do, it is usually constructive in nature. Secondly, if you are a mind reader, then perhaps you have the right to accuse me of not reading the entire thread, which I have followed from the beginning, by the way.

You have a problem, my friend. Your problem is that you have to be right. You assume that everybody is of your caliber of builder and flyer which, not knowing you at all, I have no idea of deciding if you are a hack from outer Mongolia or a real builder/flyer of model aircraft.

You need to sit back and understand one thing... that you are perhaps not the best builder/flyer in the world, and perhaps not the the worst either. If I were the original poster, I would simply tell you to suck eggs and go on with my business and swollow my pride and start to build again. That's what I would do, and you can very well that I won't continue any further with this.

Please do each and every one of us a favor and get a life.
Old 10-14-2004, 04:55 PM
  #34  
Warren
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

MUCH better photo friesianflyer; explains a lot!

That is one of the weirdest joint setups I've seen...[:'(]

I'm glad you got your $$'s back!
Old 10-14-2004, 08:55 PM
  #35  
rw Guinn
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

Nearly every ARF I have assembled had a plywood root rib supposedly glued to the balsa root ribs. The balsa rib had the covering terminated at its face and pinned beneath the ply rib. You glue the ply ribs together to make a wing. You put a narrow strip of tape over the joint (unless you cut the covering back and apply glass), and fly.
There is little visibility of what holds the ply to the balsa.
With no glue holding the ply to the balsa root ribs, no matter how much epoxy you use on the ply ribs and joiner, the only resistance to wing warping and/or twisting is the cross-section of the joiner. The section properties of that rectangular joiner has dang-all little resistance to torsion. It breaks easily. A Glass strip 1-2 inches wide will help, but is not a cure for this type of manufacturing defect.
I saw an Edge with absolutely NO glue holding the joiner box together (plug-in wings).
No way to tell untill it planted 6"deep on the first loop.

So next time, don't leap to judgement. Gather a little data first.
Old 10-15-2004, 07:27 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

The NexSTAR trainer wing is put together with a steel (yes steel) rod that goes into each wing about, oh, 10 inches or maybe 12, not sure. Then the wing sections are held together with a plastic gizmo that is in turn held together with four metal screws, about 3/4 inches long. I often wondered if this was sufficient to hold that thing together (the screws and plastic). Given the nature of student pilots to get into precarious situations and relying on the instructor to bail them out.. the turns were somewhat high-g in nature. It never came apart, but I wondered if it was a point of concern.
Old 10-15-2004, 12:06 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

Glad to see everything turn out OK.

Nice to see GP make good on their product!
Old 10-15-2004, 05:58 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

Swag.. yer a good man. Always something good to say. You're ok, man.
Old 10-16-2004, 11:10 PM
  #39  
rw Guinn
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

ORIGINAL: dicksoucy

The NexSTAR trainer wing is put together with a steel (yes steel) rod that goes into each wing about, oh, 10 inches or maybe 12, not sure. Then the wing sections are held together with a plastic gizmo that is in turn held together with four metal screws, about 3/4 inches long. I often wondered if this was sufficient to hold that thing together (the screws and plastic). Given the nature of student pilots to get into precarious situations and relying on the instructor to bail them out.. the turns were somewhat high-g in nature. It never came apart, but I wondered if it was a point of concern.
Probably not a problem. IF the wing sits on top (or the bottom) of the fuselage and is secured by either 4 screws or rubber bands, the torsion is reacted by these. The steel is more than sufficently strong (Assuming it is 1/4" or larger) to keep bending from happening--certainly stronger than plywood joiners. Maybe not stiffer, though. Some flexing may occur.

The "Butterfly" has a single 3/8 rod holding the 2 wings together. While it is a motorized sailplane (.1-.15 CID), my son's has a .25 on it, and he gets a bit crazy. He's failed the plywood polyhedral joiner once, but never the steel rod. (He uses lots of rubber bands to keep it tight to the fuselage, though...)
Old 10-18-2004, 02:10 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

Well, you all might be getting a bit uptight with each other but let me tell you it is to my (and others I'm sure) advantage to listen to what you all are saying.

#1) I made sure I expoxied the H--- out of the wing joiner and root ribs

#2) I spent the time to run about a 2 inch fiberglass cloth all the way around the wing center

Mine is about 2 hours from completion

So, THANKS! for all oy you guys input, it did not go to waste !

Fltbuff7 in Baltimore
Old 10-19-2004, 04:26 AM
  #41  
friesianflyer
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

fltbuff7, enjoy the Lancair, it is a beautiful model which looks fantastic in the air. Do yourself a favour and ditch the stock nose gear - it bends even when taxiing!!!!
Order a sierra scale strut which is specifically made for the Lancair - it is so much better.
I still wake in the night with visions of my beautiful Lancair sans wings, heading for the ground with absolutely nothing I can do.
It will attract a lot of attention, and deservedly so, I wish you all the best with it,

Regards

Friesianflyer.
Old 10-24-2004, 06:53 AM
  #42  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

Hi guys! so another Lancair bites the dust - Mine! I did not check the forums before buying and flying my GP Lancair - wish I had! Took real care in assembling the plane looked brilliant drew a large crowd each of the four times flown. Fitted with an OS 91 FS so within the specs that Great Planes recommend. Mid throttle, fairly sharp banked turn but definitely within the realms advertised by GP eg Acrobatic performance etc and the wing folded - complete loss of plane OS 91 badly damaged and me just gutted that a beautiful plane like that can be SO badly designed> Of course in hindsight I should have reinforced the joint but that IT SHOULDNT BE NEEDED IN AN ARTF! A company of GP's cailibre should withdraw the product until it has been suitabley amended - These are not toys but potentially lethal machines. Anyway sorry for ranting on - Anyone any idea if they will cover damage to the engine??? Graham
Old 10-24-2004, 04:33 PM
  #43  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

<Hey Guys, another wing Broke in two this WE at my club, but I live in Europe, and I doubt Great Planes will replace this one

Cheers

P
Old 11-15-2004, 03:21 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

Oh those R.T.F.s (ready to fail).

Build it yourself I always say.

Kraus
Old 12-19-2004, 09:18 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

I am flying my 2nd lancair. First one flew nice with os 61 fx, but slightly under powered. Put a saito 100 in it. Wow what a dif. I also replaced the front wire gear with a robart strut. Had to modify the wheel pant to fit over it . looked great. In a knife edge flight the rt wing broke in half causing a chain reaction. within 2 seconds the entire wing self desrtructed. What a sad feeling. All I coud do was cut the throttle in hopes it woud'nt hurt the motor. Ended up that it bent the crank. After doing the crash analisis I discovered that the rt ailoron had ripped out. CA hinges that were pinned had ripped in half. Can only figure that because I was over powered, even though I practiced throttle management, the plane just got stressed from so many flights. Did not keep track but probably well over 300 flights. Loops, outside loops, knife edges. My second one that i am still flying has many hrs on it. Used nylon pinned hinges, fiberglassed wing joint, new saito 100 and robart strut. Don't be afraid to invest in another one. I only suggest using nylon pinned hinges and fiberglassing the wing joint. I do however try to keep my flights more scale like and enjoy the plane in that respect. I have a 29% katana for aerobatics. I keep the lancair for scale enjoyment.
Old 12-19-2004, 10:27 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

ORIGINAL: friesianflyer

I am a firm believer that an ARTF model should not need me to cut away covering and apply extra strengthening!
The strength should be an integral part of the design.
None of my other ARTF's have needed this, and they havn't had any problems.
Im not sure this is a good position to take. I have always reinforced buth the fire wall and wing joint on all my ARFs. I simply dont put a whole lot of stock in the dude that mass produces these things, better safe than sorry. As you can see it has cost you a plane, engine, time, etc...
My .02
Old 12-21-2004, 08:05 PM
  #47  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

Wing failure runs in the GP family. I had an older model Big Stick, and on its 4th flight I was flying upside down showing a friend of mine how stable it was, then I noticed it started acting funny. So I started to slowly roll it back over and fly it back thinking I might have a rec problem, when the right wing tore off. Quite spectacular! It broke three ribs out from the root rib, all the fiberglass tape in the world on the wing joint wouldn't have stopped that. The main spar broke where they cut it to install the ribs, the only problem was they didn't glue it right. Nor did they glue the others properly as I inspected them and they broke clean. I sent it in to see what they would say. I received a whole new plane. And this ARF had a completely different designed wing. I've put this new wing through maneuvers that I thought for sure would break it and it has held every time. Even a big manufacture like GP can learn from their mistakes and correct them. I do mostly kits but I don't believe in glassing the joint on ARFs. If the root joint is going to fail then most likely the wing was built poorly and glassing it will just make if fail some place else. In all my years of flying, even in a crash, the root is the last place to give up the ghost. Partly I think because the wing is attached to the fuse about an inch or so out from the root with bolts, screws and the such. Or maybe I'm just blowing smoke and don't know it yet.

Mike
Old 12-22-2004, 11:18 AM
  #48  
timothy thompson
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

I have a lancair with a saito 80 in it and what I did was glass the center section of the wing and add a robart nose wheel. The stock nose set up is terrible. I fly it scale and have not had a problem but then i know of the planes history and after a full power to a thottle to half and the thing still flys fast flaps really dont slow it down much. If you glass the center section and take it easy you will be fine. Remember a long thin high aspect wing will not take the high g loads of a thicker wing
Old 12-22-2004, 11:20 AM
  #49  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

I have a lancair with a saito 80 in it and what I did was glass the center section of the wing and add a robart nose wheel. The stock nose set up is terrible. I fly it scale and have not had a problem but then i know of the planes history and after a full power to I thottle to half and the thing still flys fast flaps really dont slow it down much. If you glass the center section and take it easy you will be fine. Remember a long thin high aspect wing will not take the high g loads of a thicker wing
Old 12-22-2004, 09:07 PM
  #50  
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Default RE: GP Lancair wing failure

There is a tad bit of difference between constructive criticism and downright nasty comments. Oak.. if there was not enough epoxy, then I am sure the owner has taken note and need not be browbeaten into pulp by readers that were not there nor have a financial connection with the plane in question. If I crash one, I take responsibility as the original poster has. He has probably listened, learned, and bought more epoxy.
This could'nt have been said any better.

I have never flown this plane nor read the directions but here in RCU these types of responses are becoming abundant, and most of us should be just ashamed of our verbal attacks. It's really becoming annoying.

If the man said he glued the wing why can't we let it go at that ? It seems he's only looking for someone to reply that had the same experience crashing with this plane. I just went through it with a moderator who doesn't understand when you kick a man while he's down it only hurts all of us. I'M JUST GLAD THAT I WAS ABLE TO READ THIS POST BEFORE I BOUGHT THIS PLANE ! Now just imagine how many people will buy this plane and have the same thing happen because they didn't read this post.......and take a guess how many will just give up on RC planes period.....because of the crash. Well the people giving up is what keeps the prices up ....good old supply and demand.........no demand no supply, no supply =higher prices !

I think we all should thank everyone for posting there crashes , and try to figure out why they crash so others won't have to crash .

sorry for going off the topic but I couldn't resist

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