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Cermark Batteries

Old 03-01-2005, 08:02 PM
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JAYNC
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Default Cermark Batteries

This is what happens when you use cermark batteries.
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Old 03-01-2005, 08:25 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

I think it is more than just the batteries.

cheers.
Old 03-01-2005, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries


ORIGINAL: The Ghost

I think it is more than just the batteries.

cheers.
I agree. Well put, Ghost.

Isn't there an old adage that says the owner's responsible for checking the batteries, fuel, hinges, linkages, etc?

Dave Olson
Old 03-01-2005, 08:56 PM
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JAYNC
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

The batteries were checked and they were fine, everything was fine even after the crash. The battery just died in flight.
Old 03-01-2005, 09:08 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

are you sure, a connector could of came undone,
Old 03-01-2005, 09:12 PM
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JAYNC
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

I am positive I had everything zip tied, nothing came undone. Everything was fine, just a dead battery. I have been flying for 10 years and nothing like this has ever happened.
Old 03-01-2005, 09:31 PM
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Throttle
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

Why did you use Cermark batteries? Were they cheap? May your plane RIP.
Old 03-01-2005, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

Not to badger you but did you use a load tester to check batteries before flying ?
Old 03-02-2005, 03:03 AM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

Just a guess, but sometimes zip-ties can be more harm than good if pulled to tight. They can crush wires and wear away the insulation enough so that a short develops during manuevers, expecially after they've been there a while.

Sorry for your loss...
Old 03-02-2005, 08:31 AM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

This is going to be a hard sell, without specifics. Without specifics, you'll continue to get the kind of replies you're getting.

If you had posted a picture of the defect (like a spotweld failed) or described the cycle characteristics of the battery, with a graph, you might get different responses. However, "battery just went dead" isn't striking a chord with many of us. (and there are good reasons for that.)

Good luck,
Dave Olson
Old 03-02-2005, 11:51 AM
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JAYNC
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

OK heres the deal, I installed a brand new 730 mah 5 cell battery in my plane. Everything on this plane was brand new. I did an initial ground run to break in the motor a little bit. The middle of the second tank the battery went dead. I charged the battery up and it seemed fine. I then put a load test on it with a hangar 9 load tester and it held ok with a 1 amp load. I charged battery back up and went to the field the next day. This is a lanier predator race plane. I chose this battery because its small, light and has a decent capacity. The first 2 flights were great, (five minute flights) A minute into the 3rd flight the whole plane locked out while it was at full throttle. It did a couple big loops and hit the ground. From the picture you can see what was left. I did load check this battery before each flight and it was fine, holding above 6volts. When we got to the plane, about 3-4 minutes later we shut the switch off and brought the pieces back to the field. We then put a load test on this battery and it dropped to 1.3 volts with a .5 amp load within 15 seconds. So now that everyone knows whats going on what do you think. And yes I range checked the reciever before flying and after the crash and it works great, all servos worked and everything. Who knows
Old 03-02-2005, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

Load testing a battery may not tell you all the necessary facts. Did you run the battery through a capacity test by cycing it through a device designed to cycle batteries? Cycle will drain it, then show you how much capacity the battery had at the time of the discharge. It completely discharges (to the mimimum safe specs for your type of battery) then will show indicate the mili-amp hours consumed by the cycle drain process. Then charge it and do it again. This will insure that the battery will do two things.. take a full charge, and let you know what the capacity actually is.

New batteries usually need a thorough charge then a cycle through discharge then recharge in order to get full capacity.
Old 03-02-2005, 06:36 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

Load testing a battery may not tell you all the necessary facts. Did you run the battery through a capacity test by cycing it through a device designed to cycle batteries? Cycle will drain it, then show you how much capacity the battery had at the time of the discharge. It completely discharges (to the mimimum safe specs for your type of battery) then will show indicate the mili-amp hours consumed by the cycle drain process. Then charge it and do it again. This will insure that the battery will do two things.. take a full charge, and let you know what the capacity actually is.
If I had to do this with a new battery I would take it back to the LHS I bought it from.

According to what you described , it seems as if the pack never recieved a full first time charge. I hate this but when you buy new batteries most require you to charge them for 12-24 hours before using them .

Another thing that pops into my mind is there may have been a short some where in between you putting the battery into the plane and you actually flying it before it crashed. A short between + and - will drain the battery very quickly to the voltage reading you gave us after the crash.

As far as load testing the battery, this is all I can depend on, and so far I haven't had any problems. I also load test at 2A, if it falls below 5 volts it will be a no go battery.
Old 03-03-2005, 08:01 AM
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JAYNC
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

I guess it could have been a number of things but I just wanted to make people aware of this battery so no one else crashed like I did. These things happen and we just move on to the next plane.
Old 03-03-2005, 12:17 PM
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Live Wire
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

Looks like you got the nice guys, wait till the hard core come along
Old 03-03-2005, 06:23 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

Outlaw you probably know I'm normally a bit rougher than this but , once this happened to me , I wouldn't wish this on my worse enemy . So I have sympathy for this type of crash.
Old 03-03-2005, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries



Isn't there an old adage that says the owner's responsible for checking the batteries, fuel, hinges, linkages, etc?

Dave Olson
[/quote]

Well, I think you are correct. But that doesn't negate that the battery had a bad load following the crash. I have had a new 1700 Mah battery smoke on me while at the airfield. Fortunately it was sitting on the run up stand when it suddenly started smoking. Ten minutes later, and it would have been airborne. Another battery (stock futaba) gave it up in flight on a falcon III. Fortuntaly it was flying straight and level and I had just cut the throttle as a last action. It landed itself about 300 yards downfield. Bottom line, a battery can and will fail at some point. By sing a reputable source, and cycling the battery a few times before initial use, you can minimize this risk.

Bob
Old 03-03-2005, 06:49 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

JAYNC: I was concerned mainly because batteries are probably the hardest part of a crash to diagnose. I asked several questions, pretty much based on what jist of your post involved. One company who specializes in battery chargers and cyclers talked to me at length about batteries. Again, mainly about what causes them to go bad. One major comment was that any, that's ANY battery that was just purchased, will require at least a 'break-in' period in order for the battery to receive a full charge. Also, if there is a bad cell, it may not be immediately obvious. Peak Electronics has a web site with a lot of information on batteries and most of wha t I have been talking about has come from there.

I just bought a new 1000 mah receive battery. Took three charge-discharge cyles to get it up to 1000 mah.

Best of luck and good flying this spring and summer!

Dick.
Old 03-03-2005, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

I just bought a new 1000 mah receive battery. Took three charge-discharge cyles to get it up to 1000 mah.
I'm just curious , what voltage is this battery and what device or tool did you use to measure the mAh's ?

I have a battery tester for 12vdc batts that can measure mAhs. It also tells the temp of the batt. If there is such a tool for 4-6 vdc batteries I must get one.
Old 03-03-2005, 08:14 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

I highly, highly doubt your battery just DIED. Especially with new batteries nowadays... they just don't do that that. I believe that it was something else... anything else. It's simple to explain the after-crash voltage drop, an explanation was offered previously. It's very possible that cells shorted and drained the voltage, or even if a cell or two was damaged in the (very devastating) crash.

Other than that, sorry about the incident... it did look like a nice plane. Any before pics?

-Andrew
Old 03-03-2005, 08:17 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

I use lipo never looked back.. i can fly 5 or 6 15 min flights take it home. charge it the day before on my triton and only 175MaH from a 1500 pack is average. Also 6v after regulated. means fast better centering more torque servos .. I love em
Old 03-03-2005, 10:06 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

Jaync

Sorry about your loss. Crashed planes make me sick.

As the old adage goes, $#!7 happens! Don't blame the manufacturer or the reseller so easily. There are many possible causes, as pointed out already. The only point that I would like to make is that you can NEVER trust an ESV to predict how much capacity there is left in the pack. There is NO device in existence that can do that. If there was, I would already have bought one.

I use 2 flight packs and 2 switches in all of my aircraft, regardless. I have been down the fre-flight path too, it sucks!

Safe flying!
Old 03-03-2005, 10:14 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries


ORIGINAL: SeenMCrash

I highly, highly doubt your battery just DIED. Especially with new batteries nowadays... they just don't do that that. I believe that it was something else... anything else. It's simple to explain the after-crash voltage drop, an explanation was offered previously. It's very possible that cells shorted and drained the voltage, or even if a cell or two was damaged in the (very devastating) crash.

Other than that, sorry about the incident... it did look like a nice plane. Any before pics?

-Andrew
Andrew, what makes you think it was "ANYTHING" else? I am neither a pro or con on Cermark. I have both the Cirrus Cycle Pro, and the Accucycle. I firmly believe in battery management. The battery should never drop to the voltage (1.3V) that quickly unless there was a failure in the cells. If the battery had a catastrophic short from the crash, the battery casing should be melted, and the wire coming out most likely would not have been useful to place on a tester. If you ever have a battery smoke on you, then you become a believer. I bought 3 batteries from a vender at a trade show. Two failed in 6 months. I have found that buying something other than top notch batteries is gambling with the plane.
Bob
Old 03-03-2005, 10:47 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries

NEVER trust an ESV
Excuse my inexperience but what does this stand for ?
Old 03-03-2005, 11:14 PM
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Default RE: Cermark Batteries


ORIGINAL: RC-FIEND

NEVER trust an ESV
Excuse my inexperience but what does this stand for ?

ESV is an Expanded Scale Voltmeter. It is the device used to test a battery under load to know that things are going well. It's kinda of odd to say not to trust one. But they are really a tool to give you some last minute confidence at the field.

Bob

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