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Death of a Model Plane aka Patty Wagstaff

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Death of a Model Plane aka Patty Wagstaff

Old 04-14-2007, 05:42 PM
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JasonInAugusta
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Default Death of a Model Plane aka Patty Wagstaff

Went flying with p47Tbolt today.

He was flying his big Patty Wagstaff, testing the new smoke system. I was snapping a few shots while he was flying. Got bored, stopped shooting.

Everything was going great until, for some reason, the engine shut off. First time it's ever let him down like that.

Roy calls out "Dead Stick!" and I swing the camera towards the plane and start shooting.

Pictures tell the story...























He was doing well, but if he had continued on his current path (into the headwind) he'd have likely hit one of the several parked vehicles. I started to tell him "Stay to your right" but figured that it would be best to not say anything and let him fly it. When he tried to bring it around and touch down on the runway is when he went from a headwind to a crosswind. At that point the plane stalled and fell from the sky.

Overall it was a clean break of the fuse. Aside from the damaged fuse and the bent wing tube, everything survived.

It'll be in the air again by the end of summer.
Old 04-14-2007, 06:06 PM
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cjposada
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

What is your camera setup like? WOW!!!!
Old 04-14-2007, 06:26 PM
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reincarnate
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

That is one of the most spectacular crash sequences I have ever seen. Horrible crash, brilliant result! Give my sympathies to the pilot.
Old 04-14-2007, 06:42 PM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

ORIGINAL: cjposada

WOW!!!!
Agreed, those are REALLY nice pics...
Old 04-14-2007, 06:44 PM
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JasonInAugusta
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

ORIGINAL: cjposada

What is your camera setup like? WOW!!!!
Thanks!

Shots were taken with a Canon 20D and a Canon EF 75-300 f/4-5.6 II USM at 75mm.

Exposure was at 1/1000 second at f6.3, with a 400 ISO setting.
Old 04-14-2007, 07:10 PM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

Of course I was not there to see the curcumsances leading up to this catastrophe but by looking at these pictures tells me that this was an elevator induced snap stall. The pilot likely had other choices for a set down location (the tall grass on the far side of the feild) but felt he could make it back to the runway. The damage could have been significantly reduced. We are all guilty of cranial flagalence from time to time and I know how hard it is to let up on the elevator when things are going bad. Who has never done that. I bent a plane today due to reversed ailerons which is a lot more dumb then what your freind did here. So if he is frustrated, I understand. I am in no way trying to "flame" your freind here or call him stupid. It's a lot easier to think about what I should have done after the fact than what I should do now as it is happening. Been there, done that. Busted a few planes in the process. There is one of these Wagstaff's at my feild to so I know how nice it is, so I am glad to hear that it will be repaired and flying again. I hope the repairs go quickly for your freind.
Old 04-14-2007, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff


ORIGINAL: Mr67Stang

Of course I was not there to see the curcumsances leading up to this catastrophe but by looking at these pictures tells me that this was an elevator induced snap stall. The pilot likely had other choices for a set down location (the tall grass on the far side of the feild) but felt he could make it back to the runway. The damage could have been significantly reduced. We are all guilty of cranial flagalence from time to time and I know how hard it is to let up on the elevator when things are going bad. Who has never done that. I bent a plane today due to reversed ailerons which is a lot more dumb then what your freind did here. So if he is frustrated, I understand. I am in no way trying to "flame" your freind here or call him stupid. It's a lot easier to think about what I should have done after the fact than what I should do now as it is happening. Been there, done that. Busted a few planes in the process. There is one of these Wagstaff's at my feild to so I know how nice it is, so I am glad to hear that it will be repaired and flying again. I hope the repairs go quickly for your freind.
Did you read the thread?

Old 04-14-2007, 07:39 PM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

Dude you scared the hell out of me. When I read the death of Patty Wagstaff I thought you were talking about the real Patty. For a moment there I forgot I was reading a r/c crash forum. So sorry for the loss of you modle though.
Old 04-14-2007, 07:44 PM
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColquittCustom405
So how long was he crying for? No need for a transcript,I'm sure I know what he said......"Awwww SH** FU**DA**BIT**!!!" As bad as you feel for guys that crash these $2000-$7000 planes,in the back of your head when it's happening your like; please crash.....please crash.

Did not cry at all.I actually fueled up my 60 size Hanger 9 Ultra Stick
and flew the heck out of it.You really can't get upset/mad about it because sooner or later you WILL crash.It is part of flying,although not a good part of it.The plane will be rebuilt.If it comes out rebuilt ok,I will fly the heck out of it too.If not,I can get a fuselage for $140.00.Then I will fly the heck out of it also.I figured out why the plane engine shut off.Pilot error.I thought I had turn my smoke system switch off to land,but I actually flipped the choke switch.Therefore it shut the engine off.
I have the choke and smoke switches on left side of the radio(Futaba 9C).
Smoke switch is on top of radio,choke switch is on front of radio.After rebuild choke switch will be on right side of radio.9C radio lets you assign
switches to what you want.Yes,it upsets me I crashed/broke(whatever you call it)but I do not dwell on it.Pick up the "broken pieces" and move on(or in my case,rebuild).

Roy
Old 04-14-2007, 08:00 PM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

Awsome attitude TBolt! Glad to hear it. Stuff happens, move on.
Old 04-14-2007, 08:15 PM
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P47Tbolt
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff


ORIGINAL: Mr67Stang

Of course I was not there to see the curcumsances leading up to this catastrophe but by looking at these pictures tells me that this was an elevator induced snap stall. The pilot likely had other choices for a set down location (the tall grass on the far side of the feild) but felt he could make it back to the runway. The damage could have been significantly reduced. We are all guilty of cranial flagalence from time to time and I know how hard it is to let up on the elevator when things are going bad. Who has never done that. I bent a plane today due to reversed ailerons which is a lot more dumb then what your freind did here. So if he is frustrated, I understand. I am in no way trying to "flame" your freind here or call him stupid. It's a lot easier to think about what I should have done after the fact than what I should do now as it is happening. Been there, done that. Busted a few planes in the process. There is one of these Wagstaff's at my feild to so I know how nice it is, so I am glad to hear that it will be repaired and flying again. I hope the repairs go quickly for your freind.
The plane had to much airspeed to set down in the tall grass and it is downhill(hard to see to avoid the few trees that are
down there.Had enough airspeed to get to runway,just not enough to turn into the wind(several gusts)and land.Yes I did have other choices,I made the wrong one.could have been worse,though.Very little elevator input,to much rudder input trying to get it to turn so I don't hit parked vehicles or people behind me.Yes I said I should have done this or that,but I did what I did.I would rather crash my plane than hit someone or damage their vehicle,so what I did was not wrong nor stupid.So I did not have cranial flagalence,I just used
my best judgement at that time in a bad situation.Although it was not good for me or my plane.Fuselage will be rebuilt,repair inside trailing edge of both wings,new wing tube(bent)and clean dirt out of engine and carb.She will fly again.

Roy



Old 04-14-2007, 08:20 PM
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JasonInAugusta
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff


ORIGINAL: BUDMAN27

Dude you scared the hell out of me. When I read the death of Patty Wagstaff I thought you were talking about the real Patty. For a moment there I forgot I was reading a r/c crash forum. So sorry for the loss of you modle though.
Death of A Patty Wagstaff, not THE Patty Wagstaff.
Old 04-14-2007, 08:35 PM
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P47Tbolt
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

ORIGINAL: JasonInAugusta


ORIGINAL: BUDMAN27

Dude you scared the hell out of me. When I read the death of Patty Wagstaff I thought you were talking about the real Patty. For a moment there I forgot I was reading a r/c crash forum. So sorry for the loss of you modle though.
Death of A Patty Wagstaff, not THE Patty Wagstaff.
SHE IS NOT DEAD!!! just in intensive care right know.

we will rebuild.she will be better than before.she will be the 6,000,000 $ plane.


Old 04-14-2007, 08:44 PM
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P47Tbolt
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ORIGINAL: cjposada

What is your camera setup like? WOW!!!!
How about a little sympathy for the pilot here.

We can discuss pics and cameras later.
Old 04-14-2007, 08:53 PM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

Next time don't think about telling him to keep right or anything to do with flying. Simply yell 'DOWN IN FRONT!!!' so we get a clear picture.

The down in front bit, well that's reasonable.
Old 04-14-2007, 09:27 PM
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JasonInAugusta
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

ORIGINAL: Clean

Next time don't think about telling him to keep right or anything to do with flying. Simply yell 'DOWN IN FRONT!!!' so we get a clear picture.


The down in front bit, well that's reasonable.
Somehow telling Roy to get out of the way so I can snap better shots of it soon-to-be-destroyed plane seems wrong...but it sounds like something I'd do.


BTW, the thread title says "A" Patty Wagstaff...and has...unless I fat-fingered the title and someone with mod powers fixed it.

Old 04-14-2007, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

not for nothing, but if you look at the first pic he's holding a little up elevator and a lot of right rudder. in the next pic the plane yaws right and pitches down with no visable counter control inputs. the weeds in the pic seem to be pointing in the direction of left to right which mean no down wind stall. don't know all the conditions that were present that day however, the post about an induced snap were right on. sorry for your loss. they all have an expiration date. RR
Old 04-14-2007, 09:37 PM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

I agree with the Elevator Snap stall...you can see it deflected up.in one of the photos.
Sorry for your loss, I had same occurance..bought a new fuselage from tower..stipped out my tail feathers and glued in new fuselage and fixed my wings..also the new cowling..send same time was totally different color..more orange..then red.

here is my rebuilt, notice new fuselage now comes with clear canopy, not tinted.

btw..it has a G-62 for power..WHY NOT!




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Old 04-14-2007, 10:06 PM
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ORIGINAL: teamfutaba

not for nothing, but if you look at the first pic he's holding a little up elevator and a lot of right rudder. in the next pic the plane yaws right and pitches down with no visable counter control inputs. the weeds in the pic seem to be pointing in the direction of left to right which mean no down wind stall. don't know all the conditions that were present that day however, the post about an induced snap were right on. sorry for your loss. they all have an expiration date. RR
Yes,it was an induced snap from to much rudder,not elevator.We were also getting wind gusts from the
approaching storm from different directions at various times.When the engine died,the plane was flying from left to right at about 10:00-11:00 from me,so I had to make a landing approach towards me(across runway),as it approached the runway I started to turn with rudder so I would not land in the pit area,where people and vehicles were.Once I got it turned enough,I was about to apply left rudder to level the plane is when it snapped.Safety of people is the first concern when needing to make a decision in a bad situation.

Roy
Old 04-15-2007, 02:53 AM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

my deepest sympathies for the pilot. I had a GP PW once and it is a terriffic aeroplane. I unfortenately misjudged the distance to a birch tree and crashed into it. See attached figures.

rgds/Gunnar
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Old 04-15-2007, 03:00 AM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

nice pic sequence, agian, sorry for the pilot, but he sure has a great attitude![sm=teeth_smile.gif]
Pretty cool how you have the controller set-up with the choke and smoke, Sounds like you know your stuff!!
Old 04-15-2007, 07:57 AM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

I wasn't there.
From the grass and the fact that he had little or no air speed, he could have landed it short of any obstacles.
Not sure why he just didn't drop the nose and land.
THE wind would have made it stop short.
Old 04-15-2007, 11:13 AM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

Pic of damaged fuselage.
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Old 04-15-2007, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

Rebuild has begun.Using broken sheeting and stringers to realign fuselage.
Glueing together at ply formers,then will remove broken sheeting and stringers.
New stringers and sheeting then will be installed.
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Old 04-15-2007, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff

Sweet..best of luck with rebuild..tis a great thing you do!

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