Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
07-21-2008, 09:59 PM
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Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
Crashed my Seagull Edge 540 yesterday. Was in the middle of my third flight of the day and suddenly lost all control of the plane. After recovering the pieces we tried to see what went wrong. All of the control surfaces are still intact and are working. The rx battery is a 1000 ma and still had 5.1 volts no load and 4.8 volts under load. Transmitter is a Futaba 7C 2.4 and still had 9.9 volts in that battery. Range tested it again, good there too. I have wiggled wires and checked the switch over and over. I can see absolutely no reason for this to have happened. Any ideas?
07-21-2008, 10:28 PM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
Hi 22570
By "suddenly lost all control of the plane" do you mean that the plane stopped reacting to any input from you? I have seen hundreds of crashes that were pilot error were the pilot lost orientation and could not make the right correction. These are two completely different conditions.
By "suddenly lost all control of the plane" do you mean that the plane stopped reacting to any input from you? I have seen hundreds of crashes that were pilot error were the pilot lost orientation and could not make the right correction. These are two completely different conditions.
07-21-2008, 11:20 PM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
Do you have failsafe set to drop the throttle to idle?
Did the throttle drop to idle?
If so then your plane went into failsafe.
If not, then maybe you had a power interuption, such as vibration affecting the switch, loose power connector, or something else like that.
Do you use the transmitter with other models?
If so then I will assume the TX is OK, otherwise it might be the Tx.
have seen this in other 2.4 systems (as well as 3xMhz)
what brand radio gear?
Did the throttle drop to idle?
If so then your plane went into failsafe.
If not, then maybe you had a power interuption, such as vibration affecting the switch, loose power connector, or something else like that.
Do you use the transmitter with other models?
If so then I will assume the TX is OK, otherwise it might be the Tx.
have seen this in other 2.4 systems (as well as 3xMhz)
what brand radio gear?
07-22-2008, 02:40 AM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
I lost a model just like that . Mid air with plenty of altitude. I'm not that slow
It was stuck on full throttle when it went in and I throttle back ...wacth her drive from 100-150'
I'm also aware that some model takes time to recover from a stall and the controls are not responsive
due to less air blowing over the control surfaces.
Everything worked perfect after the crashed. It bother me a bit.
I thought the crytal might havee been cracked or had fractures in it.
It funtion okay on the bench but under vibrations it glitched.
I also ran into a fualty switch before. I cuaght it during a preflight.
Wheather from dirt, humidity, wire shorts (I'm not sure), it didn't turn on or it turned on/off if I tap the fuselage.
I've flown a couple of times without raising my antenna
It was stuck on full throttle when it went in and I throttle back ...wacth her drive from 100-150'
I'm also aware that some model takes time to recover from a stall and the controls are not responsive
due to less air blowing over the control surfaces.
Everything worked perfect after the crashed. It bother me a bit.
I thought the crytal might havee been cracked or had fractures in it.
It funtion okay on the bench but under vibrations it glitched.
I also ran into a fualty switch before. I cuaght it during a preflight.
Wheather from dirt, humidity, wire shorts (I'm not sure), it didn't turn on or it turned on/off if I tap the fuselage.
I've flown a couple of times without raising my antenna
07-22-2008, 05:43 AM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
From 5.1v unloaded to 4.8 loaded - how large a load?
When you say stopped responding to input - were you just inputting elevator? Is it possible the elevator came disconnected from the servo? This is normally difficult to determine from the wreckage.
Could one of the reciever antenna wires have been in contact with something metal? Were the receiver wires set up perpendicular to each other?
Was anyone else at the field? Were they operating any 2.4 radios? Have you checked to see if you're transmitter or anyone else at the field has one of the faulty transmitters from Futaba?
Which direction was you're transmitter antenna facing? Was the antenna pointed at the plane or was the antenna pointing 90 degrees to the plane? (note that on the 2.4 systems, the antenna should be pointed such that it is normally 90 degrees to the plane)
How far was the plane from you?
Any thunderstorms in the area?
Brad
When you say stopped responding to input - were you just inputting elevator? Is it possible the elevator came disconnected from the servo? This is normally difficult to determine from the wreckage.
Could one of the reciever antenna wires have been in contact with something metal? Were the receiver wires set up perpendicular to each other?
Was anyone else at the field? Were they operating any 2.4 radios? Have you checked to see if you're transmitter or anyone else at the field has one of the faulty transmitters from Futaba?
Which direction was you're transmitter antenna facing? Was the antenna pointed at the plane or was the antenna pointing 90 degrees to the plane? (note that on the 2.4 systems, the antenna should be pointed such that it is normally 90 degrees to the plane)
How far was the plane from you?
Any thunderstorms in the area?
Brad
07-22-2008, 06:37 AM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
We tested the battery immediately after the crash with a load tester. I don't know how many amps it loads the battery. After I got home I put a voltmeter on the battery while operating all the control surfaces at the same time. Voltage never went below 4.9.
I was trying to come out of a turn when I realized there was something wrong. I could not level the wings. After I realized the ailerons were not working, I yanked on the elevator and it was dead too. Killed the throttle, but didn't notice any change in the engine sound before it hit the ground. None of the control surfaces were broke in the crash and all the linkages are still hooked up.
There was no metal near the antenna wires. They were set at 90 degrees.
I was the only one flying at the time of the crash.
TX antenna was flipped up, or pointed to the sky so as to be perpendicular to the plane.
The plane was pretty far out, about as far as I normally go. Probably about 300 yards. The weather was clear.
I do not know of anyone else at our field that has a Futaba 2.4. There are several Spectrums though.
I am going to call Futaba today and see if they can offer any insight. There was a problem with these radios. There was information on their website about a problem they were having, and to check if the radio has a little round sticker with the letter 'I' on it. Mine has the sticker and is supposed to be ok.
I was trying to come out of a turn when I realized there was something wrong. I could not level the wings. After I realized the ailerons were not working, I yanked on the elevator and it was dead too. Killed the throttle, but didn't notice any change in the engine sound before it hit the ground. None of the control surfaces were broke in the crash and all the linkages are still hooked up.
There was no metal near the antenna wires. They were set at 90 degrees.
I was the only one flying at the time of the crash.
TX antenna was flipped up, or pointed to the sky so as to be perpendicular to the plane.
The plane was pretty far out, about as far as I normally go. Probably about 300 yards. The weather was clear.
I do not know of anyone else at our field that has a Futaba 2.4. There are several Spectrums though.
I am going to call Futaba today and see if they can offer any insight. There was a problem with these radios. There was information on their website about a problem they were having, and to check if the radio has a little round sticker with the letter 'I' on it. Mine has the sticker and is supposed to be ok.
07-22-2008, 06:59 AM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
ORIGINAL: 22570
We tested the battery immediately after the crash with a load tester. I don't know how many amps it loads the battery. After I got home I put a voltmeter on the battery while operating all the control surfaces at the same time. Voltage never went below 4.9.
I was trying to come out of a turn when I realized there was something wrong. I could not level the wings. After I realized the ailerons were not working, I yanked on the elevator and it was dead too. Killed the throttle, but didn't notice any change in the engine sound before it hit the ground. None of the control surfaces were broke in the crash and all the linkages are still hooked up.
There was no metal near the antenna wires. They were set at 90 degrees.
I was the only one flying at the time of the crash.
TX antenna was flipped up, or pointed to the sky so as to be perpendicular to the plane.
The plane was pretty far out, about as far as I normally go. Probably about 300 yards. The weather was clear.
I do not know of anyone else at our field that has a Futaba 2.4. There are several Spectrums though.
I am going to call Futaba today and see if they can offer any insight. There was a problem with these radios. There was information on their website about a problem they were having, and to check if the radio has a little round sticker with the letter 'I' on it. Mine has the sticker and is supposed to be ok.
We tested the battery immediately after the crash with a load tester. I don't know how many amps it loads the battery. After I got home I put a voltmeter on the battery while operating all the control surfaces at the same time. Voltage never went below 4.9.
I was trying to come out of a turn when I realized there was something wrong. I could not level the wings. After I realized the ailerons were not working, I yanked on the elevator and it was dead too. Killed the throttle, but didn't notice any change in the engine sound before it hit the ground. None of the control surfaces were broke in the crash and all the linkages are still hooked up.
There was no metal near the antenna wires. They were set at 90 degrees.
I was the only one flying at the time of the crash.
TX antenna was flipped up, or pointed to the sky so as to be perpendicular to the plane.
The plane was pretty far out, about as far as I normally go. Probably about 300 yards. The weather was clear.
I do not know of anyone else at our field that has a Futaba 2.4. There are several Spectrums though.
I am going to call Futaba today and see if they can offer any insight. There was a problem with these radios. There was information on their website about a problem they were having, and to check if the radio has a little round sticker with the letter 'I' on it. Mine has the sticker and is supposed to be ok.
Is this problem specific to the the 7C? I have a 6EX 2.4 system and was not aware of nor have I experienced any such problems.
07-22-2008, 07:11 AM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
Found the Service Advisory on Futaba's website, got the answer to my question. Thanks for the heads-up, sorry it cost you your Edge.
07-22-2008, 10:35 AM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
Hi 22570
I am following your problem carefully because 9 days ago I crashed my Flying Lawnmower under similar conditions and post crash test results, and with the same Futaba 2.4 Mhz radio. I have no idea what went wrong. In the absence of any evidence I will blame the switch harness, but will also replace the battery, and electronic elevon mixer. I am moving up to a better switch harness, one that uses heavier wires and gold plated contacts. I retrospect, I now realize that I have been occasionally replacing the standard switch harness to correct a servo twitching problem. I do these things because I would probably quit flying if I could not learn what caused a crash, or at least take some positive steps based on experience problems. I consider myself fortunate to be able to state that about 98% of my many crashes have been pilot error. Please pass on anything else you find. I believe in my case the Futaba radio is not the problem.
I am following your problem carefully because 9 days ago I crashed my Flying Lawnmower under similar conditions and post crash test results, and with the same Futaba 2.4 Mhz radio. I have no idea what went wrong. In the absence of any evidence I will blame the switch harness, but will also replace the battery, and electronic elevon mixer. I am moving up to a better switch harness, one that uses heavier wires and gold plated contacts. I retrospect, I now realize that I have been occasionally replacing the standard switch harness to correct a servo twitching problem. I do these things because I would probably quit flying if I could not learn what caused a crash, or at least take some positive steps based on experience problems. I consider myself fortunate to be able to state that about 98% of my many crashes have been pilot error. Please pass on anything else you find. I believe in my case the Futaba radio is not the problem.
07-22-2008, 01:08 PM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
Sounds like an intermittent power problem. If the power to a 2.4 system glitches, the system takes 4-5 sec to "boot" up again. That's FOREVER while you are in the air.
07-22-2008, 02:24 PM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
ORIGINAL: 22570
I am going to call Futaba today and see if they can offer any insight. There was a problem with these radios. There was information on their website about a problem they were having, and to check if the radio has a little round sticker with the letter 'I' on it. Mine has the sticker and is supposed to be ok.
I am going to call Futaba today and see if they can offer any insight. There was a problem with these radios. There was information on their website about a problem they were having, and to check if the radio has a little round sticker with the letter 'I' on it. Mine has the sticker and is supposed to be ok.
ORIGINAL: Boris23
Found the Service Advisory on Futaba's website, got the answer to my question. Thanks for the heads-up, sorry it cost you your Edge.
Found the Service Advisory on Futaba's website, got the answer to my question. Thanks for the heads-up, sorry it cost you your Edge.
ORIGINAL: Skoda450
Sounds like an intermittent power problem. If the power to a 2.4 system glitches, the system takes 4-5 sec to "boot" up again. That's FOREVER while you are in the air.
Sounds like an intermittent power problem. If the power to a 2.4 system glitches, the system takes 4-5 sec to "boot" up again. That's FOREVER while you are in the air.
My guess would be switch or battery connector. I would replace them both.
07-22-2008, 02:41 PM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
You may want to test the reciever for heat issue. My friend has his crash upon taxing out on the runway the plane went to mid to full throttle and chewed thru another airplane.
Not saying this is your problem but you can test it. Turn the switch on and if it was mounted under the canopy it the sunlight put in the sunlight, if mounted flat on ply or whatever do the same and start to work the surfaces if it is heat issue when the reciever reaches 140 to 150 degrees it will shut down. If it does then this is a known issue.
If not I would most likely say that a switch, battery, or the battery came unpluged during flight.
Not saying this is your problem but you can test it. Turn the switch on and if it was mounted under the canopy it the sunlight put in the sunlight, if mounted flat on ply or whatever do the same and start to work the surfaces if it is heat issue when the reciever reaches 140 to 150 degrees it will shut down. If it does then this is a known issue.
If not I would most likely say that a switch, battery, or the battery came unpluged during flight.
07-22-2008, 05:57 PM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
Thanks to everyone for your input. I suppose at this time I must consider that the battery came unplugged during flight. It was mounted in the front, right behind the firewall. Of course that part of the plane is what took the brunt of the impact. Basically everything ahead of the wings is gone. The battery was found disconnected, broke loose from the area where it was mounted. Although I attributed that to the impact, it is about the only thing I can't rule out as a cause. Another thing that didn't click till today was the fact that I had the canopy off right before this fateful flight to check the wing bolts and the battery voltage. I may have unknowingly partially disconnected the battery connector from the switch harness when I had my hands in there checking the wing bolts, and it stuck together through the first few minutes of vibration. I guess we'll never know for sure. I have ordered another identical plane and will replace the switch and battery for this one. I also plan to install some safety measures so that all of the connectors can't be inadvertently pulled apart.
07-22-2008, 07:06 PM
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RE: Crashed my Edge, but what caused it?
ORIGINAL: skoda450
Sounds like an intermittent power problem. If the power to a 2.4 system glitches, the system takes 4-5 sec to "boot" up again. That's FOREVER while you are in the air.
Sounds like an intermittent power problem. If the power to a 2.4 system glitches, the system takes 4-5 sec to "boot" up again. That's FOREVER while you are in the air.
