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"3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

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"3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Old 11-08-2009, 12:52 PM
  #26  
gboulton
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Well, things are going quite well. Further back I get with the forward fuse section, the more and more things are just lining up, and falling into place. Won't bother with pictures, since it'd just be more of the same...half a fuse with clamps all over it. But suffice to say, the value of having the square and true "main frame" of the motor box sides and forward bulkhead is becoming quite apparent. With each repair, i grow more and more confident I'll have a strong, flyable airplane when this process is done.
Old 11-08-2009, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

YAY!

Front fuse section is now completely framed up. The major concern, the back end of it, slid into place just as pretty as you please. By the time i got back there, the total misalignment was 1/32". That gives me a TON of confidence that this section of the fuse is straight and true.

There's now plenty of other cracks, delams, etc to fix/patch/glue...but the front fuse is solid, stable, and straight. I count that as a major success!

I figure at this point the WORST possible scenario is needing some heavy cutting/patching to join the halves together. I don't THINK that'll be necessary, but even if it is, with two known straight sections, and a known true motor box, a laser level and some jigs will make even that task a simple...if tedious..one.

So...onward I'll go tomorrow with patching.
Old 11-08-2009, 08:04 PM
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

airplanes are not meant to hover.....get a helicopter....i hate 3d.....i hate reading about! ruins the sport of flying an airplane model. you got what you asked for dude!![X(]
Old 11-08-2009, 08:18 PM
  #29  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Okie doke, time for pictures, commentary, etc.

This post will be a fairly long one, detailing one of the many repairs done today, its critical nature, and a few lessons learned and relearned.

We'll start with a couple shots of the area in question:





This is the left side and top left corner of what amounts to the back end of the front fuse section....in essence, the "keystone" of the entire fuse section. This was THE point I've been working towards since yesterday. I felt that it had the most damage, and if IT wound up aligned after everything else was straightened/tacked/patched, then it was a near certainty that the fuse section was straight and true.

You'll note the A and F labeling, which I discussed above. Here are the pieces I'd identified as going in this area. The most important piece here is F, which contains one of the tabs that has a corresponding slot in the fuse side. if that doesn't line up well, the whole fuse is out of whack somewhere.





I started by straightening and tack gluing the "F" section still attached to the fuse. It was twisted and delaminated pretty badly.



Next, piece A went in, as it was part of the fuse side to which the isolated F section would have to glue. It also, on the back, had a very handy "glue line" where that former had previously been glued. Sanding the glue away, and redrawing the line with a marker, gave a very nice reference line.



Finally, piece F went in behind A. As you see, it went up the fuse side, then across to complete the top of the former here. So, it needed to join with the top of the former, line up on the mark on the back of A, AND line the tab up with the slot in the fuse side...alot to ask!

And low and behold...



It went in perfectly. The total adjustment needed at the top brace was not even the width of a pencil lead. It just sat right in place with a very satisfying "click", and there we were. Glued everything up, sistered in a patch (which can be seen in the photo above), and the entire fuse section "magically" went from wobbly and unsteady to solid as a rock. It was a thing of beauty.

==========

Now...moving forward, I've got a shot of just WHY I was so excited about how perfectly the back end of this section came together. Below is a shot of the rear fuse section sitting next to the front section. Note the circles and lines:



If that picture doesn't bring a smile to your face, you haven't been keeping up. EVERY single break point on each section has a matching point on the other section. Not a single missing piece. With both sections KNOWN to be straight and true, and one entire side KNOWN to be complete, then there's almost no way NOT to get a straight airplane out of this.

There's still lots of patching to be done, but I'm now 100% convinced she'll fly again, and do it well.

=====================

Couple of final thoughts.

First, the value of Mike's lesson to label pieces as they're identified, even if you aren't to that section yet, is pretty obvious. It's really handy when you get to a section like this was to just pick up 2-3 pieces, and know exactly how they SHOULD fit together. Knowing that, you can simply put them in place, and if they fit, glue away, if not, find out why.

Second, if anyone's reading this that HASN'T done a rebuild before, heed the following : Pick up EVERY LAST SPLINTER and EVERY LAST BIT you can find at the crash scene. Remember, pieces A and F above were, just 2 days ago, nothing more than small bits of plywood laying scattered on the ground. They had no obvious relationship to anything. Yet, without them, this entire rebuild would have, at best, been put in jeopardy. So shake off the post-crash blahs, grab a bag, and tell your helpers not to overlook ANYTHING, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant. You've just seen a piece no bigger than a silver dollar tie an entire fuse together, provide a reference line, and act as a stabilizing point for a critical repair.

====================

Tomorrow, hopefully, the DLE-111 will get boxed up, and head westward to Jody out at Valley View for an expert check-out. If I get the chance, I'll also drop the gear off to be straightened and then begin work on the myriad patches left to be done.
Old 11-08-2009, 08:31 PM
  #30  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.


ORIGINAL: edmoor
airplanes are not meant to hover
Pretty obviously airplanes such as this one are.

And how do you explain Jim LeRoy's Bulldog, or Hannes Arch's aerobatic routine, or Peter Besenyei's Haute Voltige performances, or Svetlana Kapanina's world championship routine?

Besides...if you'd read the initial crash report, you'd know the incident didn't happen while hovering...it happened during minimum controllable airspeed flight...a maneuver taught to, practiced by, and tested in every full scale private pilot student in the country.

.....get a helicopter....i hate 3d.....
But 3D flight with a helicopter requires it doing things full scale helicopters won't do as well. Should I avoid that aspect of flight all together?

i hate reading about! ruins the sport of flying an airplane model.
You don't say what you hate reading about, but I think we can figure out the gist of your sentiments from context.

So I'm "ruining the sport of flying an airplane model" am I? How so? By flying it in a fashion its full scale counterpart couldn't mimic? I suggest, then, that you perform standard rate turns with your scale models unless you perform a clearing turn prior to executing a steep turn. What? Your field doesn't provide sufficient space to do so? Well then, your field is completely ruining the sport of flying an airplane model.

Or am I ruining the sport by posting this thread...the one you've hated reading about? Well then, by all means, go read other threads. I certainly don't wish to ruin your enjoyment of the sport.

you got what you asked for dude!![X(]
I sure did. I asked for an airplane that would perform flawlessly in regimes, attitudes, and conditions that left me no room for error. I asked for an airplane that would give me the confidence to put it in those situations, and the reward of doing it successfully.

When I asked for such an airplane, I also acknowledged the fact that I did, indeed, have no room for error...and I made one. I'm paying the price for my mistake, and will, just like flying in that manner, reap the rewards when i see it fly again.

========================

Quite frankly, I don't give a rat's *** what you fly, how you fly it, where you fly it, or what it does/doesn't do. I ain't in this hobby for you. I'm in it for me. I do things I enjoy doing because I enjoy doing them. I do them without regard for whether other people think it's "scale" or "fun" or "cool" or anything else.

And I let other people do the same...without jumping into their threads and telling them how much I hate reading about it.
Old 11-08-2009, 09:52 PM
  #31  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Hey edmoor
Iam really enjoying this thread
Please carry on Mr gboulton
Lee
Old 11-08-2009, 10:06 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.


ORIGINAL: edmoor

airplanes are not meant to hover.....get a helicopter....i hate 3d.....i hate reading about! ruins the sport of flying an airplane model. you got what you asked for dude!![X(]
Seriously, you can't even form a proper sentence. Judging by your postings on other threads, you enjoy trying to belittle others. Obviously you are perfect. You got what you asked for dude? You sir, should be ashamed for someone with "30" years of modeling under their belts. I'm not even that old yet and I know better. gboulton, best of luck with the rebuild. Looks great! I love 3D...anyone can fly in ovals. -Chris
Old 11-09-2009, 07:05 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.


ORIGINAL: LeeHunt
Please carry on Mr gboulton
ORIGINAL: Sessholvlaru
gboulton, best of luck with the rebuild. Looks great!
Thanks, guys.
Old 11-09-2009, 07:28 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

looking great, wont belong before the rear and the front are reunited. great job on the diagrams too
Old 11-09-2009, 08:09 AM
  #35  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Mr. G. B.,
Wow what a hurt bunny !!

This is one thing you can say about WH products, Basically its just a kit plane already built for you. Goes back together pretty easy.
And if you busted something too bad TF has parts that directly fit. (like a cowling, wing tubes ect...)

A rebuildable plane Wow what a concept.

Your bunny takes a lick'n and keeps on tick'n !

JDS
Old 11-09-2009, 08:15 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

G man. This thread is truly amazing. What an inspiration to a guy like myself who isn't a "builder" modeler. I would have been calling Tom for a new kit, and in a couple of days your plane is soon to be straight and ready to cover. Great job and INCREDIBLE attitiude! I aspire to have your same demeanor when this happens to me. Thanks for all your influence.
Old 11-09-2009, 08:45 AM
  #37  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Heh...thanks, Barry.

But hold off on the praise. #1, there really ain't nothin to it...it's all just a big jigsaw puzzle. #2, it ain't flyin yet!
Old 11-09-2009, 03:55 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

ǝʌısuǝdxǝ sı dn puɐ dn sı uʍop ''''pǝʇɹǝʌuı puɐ ʍo1 buıʎ1ɟ uǝɥʍ ... LOL !! This makes me laugh....
Old 11-09-2009, 03:56 PM
  #39  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Old 11-09-2009, 05:52 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Keep 'em comming! You might even inspire me to try rebuilding that Venus I crashed! I saved all the pieces, but put all the inards in another plane. Its in a little worse shape than you're Edge, and a lot smaller frame to work with, but seeing what you've done might challenge me to try it!
Old 11-10-2009, 04:49 PM
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Gboulton,
I'm missing all the fun! If you keep this up, "you'll get what you asked for dude!"... a great repair and a great flying plane!

Tom
Old 11-10-2009, 05:03 PM
  #42  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.


ORIGINAL: iiiat
I'm missing all the fun! If you keep this up, ''you'll get what you asked for dude!''... a great repair and a great flying plane!
Yeah, but I won't be able to 3D it. I don't want to ruin the hobby or anything.
Old 11-10-2009, 06:31 PM
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Don't want to ruin the hobby or anything.....LMAO......I've got a few heli's and I still like to hover my plank!
Old 11-10-2009, 06:56 PM
  #44  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Not much of an update tonight...work's been busy, and the new puppies are starting to get old enough to demand significant time. *heh*

DID, however, manage to get a couple of cracked areas in some ply formers patched up. I'm guessing by this weekend I might be ready to see about putting the fuse back together. That's the plan, anyway.
Old 11-10-2009, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Man I can't see what you are doing with your spare TIME Minor damage like that you should be flying it this week end
I thought I was the only one that took on that type of build[:@]
Larry K
Old 11-10-2009, 07:50 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.


ORIGINAL: Live Wire

Man I can't see what you are doing with your spare TIME Minor damage like that you should be flying it this week end
I thought I was the only one that took on that type of build[:@]
Larry K
LOL

Well, you know, some of us just aren't as talented as others, Larry. It takes us forever to do the simplest things.
Old 11-10-2009, 09:03 PM
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Need some Help
I just got a Greatplanes Extra 38% 330 to rebuild The guy bought it for $100 New in BOX
Old 11-12-2009, 12:21 AM
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Looks great GB! I'm glad to see you're taking the time and effort to rebuild it. I'm kind of old school and hate to see people just throw planes away with out even looking at them to see if they're repairable. That first flight will feel soooo great!
Old 11-14-2009, 03:37 PM
  #49  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Well...good news and bad news today.

Left wing's hurt a good bit more than I'd thought...gonna be a major process to rebuild. Shopping around now for another set over in the WH forum. Barring that, going to have to give some serious thought to having Mike cut a set of foam cores and just building a new set.

HOWEVER

That shall NOT dampen my spirits....as today has proven to be a GREAT day for the rebuild.

With the help of good friend Paul, we introduced Ed (The front half of Edge) to Ge (The back half of Edge)...and came up with:















The thing went together about as perfectly as you can imagine. To be honest, if I hadn't seen it, I doubt I'd have believed it. Everything you see above is with things just glued back together...NO sister plates, NO patches, nothing...already strong and solid. (Obviously, appropriate patching/plating will be done as necessary)

Two indications of how straight the fuse went together:

1) There are some "diagonal" braces, inside the fuse sides, that span the breaks. Both were undamaged, one still attached to Ge You can see it in the "bottom center" of this earlier picture, sticking forward inside the right fuse side:



When the halves went together, the tab you can see on that brace slipped right into the notch for it on the fuse side. Ok...good.

Then, went to the left half. The other diagonal brace was completely out of the airplane, but had remained undamaged. With NO adjustment, it slipped perfectly into place..all three tabs lining right up.

2) Once we'd tacked a few joints, just to hold things on place, I threw the laser on it to see how much adjustment we'd have to do. I didn't figure it'd be too much, with those braces dropping in like that.

Turns out I was right. We needed to adjust things precisely 0".

Laser cut a perfect line right through the centerline on the firewall, right down the top of the turtledeck, and right up the vertical stab. You could even, in spots, see the line in the bottom of the airplane...falling exactly on the center stringer on the bottom.

It really could NOT have been more perfectly aligned.

=========

So...started doing some "permanent" repair work. First just soaking all the breaks/mends with CA, and sanding to fill. That's pretty much done, and is the point things are at in the set of pictures above. All the "jigsaw pieces" found homes, and I wound up with only one gap on the right side, and have already cut and installed a new piece there.

All that remains for the fuse at this point is to finish up putting in patch plates where they're needed (it won't be too many), and then do the finish work overall to get her ready for recovering.

All in all, I'm awfully pleased.
Old 11-14-2009, 03:54 PM
  #50  
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Default RE: "3D or die!" they said...and I had to choose the latter option.

Hey gordon, it is looking good on the rebuild. you have any pic's of the wings? Also you heard anything on the DL111 from Jody?

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