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Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

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Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Old 12-07-2005, 01:35 AM
  #1576  
Sky High
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Using Auto Recovery

I read a post in this thread that suggested using the auto recovery feature of the Ti Pro if you begin to lose control of your helo due to high altitude and/or wind. This feature must be programmed before it will work and is utilized for a loss of signal from the transmitter due to distance, loose antenna or a low/dead transmitter battery. DFI strongly advises that you never use this method as a conscious option to recover your helo from those circumstances if you can avoid it because I think it's not a guaranteed safe/soft landing but better than a freefall. However, if I see my $1000+ machine moving into oblivion and there is no other option for recovery like if it is going to crash into an open body of water and sink without a trace or disappear into a bottomless pit, then I'm going to do it because there's nothing to lose.

The very first day that I flew there was a slight breeze and I had no business trying to learn the first day with those conditions, therefore, I got misleading results. It was not the helos fault but mine. Anyway, I was so discouraged and aggravated with this damn thing that on my last attempt before the end of the day and in a wide open field, I floored the throttle from 0 to MAX and sent that thing to the moon [sm=lol.gif] to do my version of the SUPERDROP like Zennon did in his demo of easy recovery from a self-induced freefall. Ohhh, I shouldn't have done that! [X(] It went so high, at least 1000 ft, that I had to squint to barely see it so I let off of the throttle to begin a descent and that wasn't doing it fast enough! It was drifting more and more over towards the treeline which would have been the point of no return with my lack of experience. So, what did I do, I cut the throttle all the way down and it began to fall like a cinder block and my heart went to my feet! [X(] At the last minute, when it was just below the height of the power lines that crossed the field, I just floored the throttle and that thing just put on the brakes and stopped cold in mid air. It beats anything you've ever seen. By this time it was on the other side of a small rise in the field so I dropped the throttle again until it was at the crest of that rise and I jogged the throttle to give it one last cushion before touchdown which I couldn't see because of the rise. I then turned off my transmitter, big mistake! When I topped the rise, I saw the thing on the ground flippity flopping around upside down like a fish out of water. So, I turned the transmitter back on and it stopped. I then turned the helo off and assessed the supsrisingly small amount of damage, a broken rotor from the flipping around on the ground. Now I only use short freefalls sparingly to escape high altitude fast. If you want a real thrill, just do a SUPERDROP at your own risk, of course.
Old 12-07-2005, 02:20 AM
  #1577  
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Warning: Turning Off transmitter Or Collapsing the Antenna While the Helo Is Armed - Don't Do It!

If you have ever turned on and armed your DF without the transmitter already on or turned off your transmitter while the DF is armed, then you have probably experienced the random pulsing and sometimes full throttle of the rotors! The following is what can happen if you do this while leaving the DF unattended while powered up and armed.

A while back, I was flying just fine and landed my helo near the edge of the open field, left it on and armed, went to my truck 100 yards away and collapsed my antenna as I walked to my truck thinking I was still in adequate range for the helo to receive a neutral signal. I was wrong. [:@] When I returned two minutes later, my helo was gone! [X(] [] Well, I just panicked because I knew what had happened and that's what made it even worse. While I was walking to my truck the damn thing had taken off all by itself and disappeared because it lost the signal from the transmitter while armed. I didn't know what direction, how high it had gone and if so how far it may have drifted if it had reached a high altitude. The only thing I had to my advantage was the battery was already low so it wouldn't have gone far under power. I did a quick scan of the ground and trees within a 1000 ft radius and could not find it. [] Do you know how many strange looks I got while frantically walking around looking up into all of those trees? [sm=tongue.gif] I knew I had one more way to find it which was to wait until it got dark and look for nav lights and the tail strobe. Well, right before dark, I started my night search and within 15 minutes found it about 30 ft up in a pine tree only 50 ft from where it had taken off! [:@] If it had been any further out in the field when it took off, I probably wouldn't have ever seen it again. That tree caught it before it could gain altitude and drift away. I was so happy, I didn't know what to do! The lights looked pretty cool up in that tree though. Anyway, I had to get on top of my truck and use a 20 ft 2x4 to fish it out. When I returned from getting the 2x4, I caught two college kids, this was a college campus, trying to knock it down with a small ball. I quickly jumped out of my truck and said, tell me you haven't hit that with that ball. Oh no, we didn't they said as they quickly scurried away because they damn near got caught trying to helonap my helo. [:@] Well, after I chased off the hyenas or vultures, I fished that thing out of the tree and inspected it for damage. There was nothing wrong but a blown fuse from jammed rotors in the limbs. I flew again later that night with no issues. That is one tough bird! [sm=thumbup.gif] So, remember not to turn off your transmitter or collapse the antenna while your helo is on and/or armed no matter how close you are to it or you may not see it again!
Old 12-07-2005, 03:26 AM
  #1578  
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Rotor Vortex Noise....Cool!

Has anyone else noticed that really coool vortex noise that the DF makes when it hovers or flies low and slow nearby? Is that not the coolest noise? [sm=thumbup.gif]
Old 12-07-2005, 05:25 AM
  #1579  
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Lipoly Critical Voltage Level

Oops! [X(] I have the Thunder Power 1320 mAh Lipoly packs with the DFI protection circuit. I wasn't paying attention yesterday and put an already depleated flight pack on the helo and attempted to take off. I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't lift off. Then I realized what I had done. All that I have read and heard is to never allow these packs to fall below 9.99 volts (3.3 v per cell), then not below 9 volts at the least, or it would flatline. [sm=confused.gif] I thought that was the mark of death for that pack so I immediately checked the voltage and sure enough, it had dropped to 8.67 volts. [] I thought that battery was done for but I charged it anyway and I couldn't believe that it charged back to a full 12.65 volts as always. So, I figured just because it charged to that voltage it would not necessarily provide an adequate run time. I cautiously flew with it keeping the helo low and close just in case but it performed as always, full power for 15 minutes with no issues. I was happy! I charged it again and it worked flawlessly. Maybe it's because I recharged it immediately after hitting that low level. So, I guess this means it is possible to bring these packs back from the dead as long as you hit them with the defibrilator immediately after it happens.
Old 12-07-2005, 05:48 AM
  #1580  
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Fiber Optics for Night Flying

Here is a source for some interesting and very affordable night flying lighting applications. I can't wait to try fiber lighting!

www.laserlaces.com

www.livewireent.com
Old 12-07-2005, 10:08 PM
  #1581  
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Sky High, I like your style! This is so much more fun when you just turn on the Ti and fly high! I agree with you on virtually everything as you have described it. Every time I try to fly without the Ti I give up. Once I turned off my transmitter without having set the board right on the flyer that I left on and off she went for the sky at full throttle. I picked up the transmitter, turned it back on and took control back just in time. Just a few more seconds and it would have been out of sight.

Of the lights you provided links for which are the ones you used in the videos with the stobe on the tail and forward running light?

I too have thought that if I could see lights like that in the day it would solve that orientation problem. When the flyer is out hundreds of feet flight control "appears" to be delayed but I know that is due to the greater distance the flyer has to go for me to realize that it is moving laterally at all. Those lights should provide an instant orientation confirmation and could save valuable flight time on the battery that would be used to determine orientation in flight.

Weather in Illinois is bad now. We are setting record low temperatures now going below zero degrees F. Just a few weeks ago we had record highs. Wierd. I am waiting for the next wave of highs to come around...
Old 12-07-2005, 10:36 PM
  #1582  
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Hi 1videoman1,

Just wondering if you were still flying with CF blades and metal screws.

Thanks,
Old 12-07-2005, 11:03 PM
  #1583  
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Navigation Lights

Howdy Scott. Let me say again that was a fantastic demo that you made with your DF! Like you, I too work in the production industry as a DP/camera operator, editor, jib, steadicam and truck owner/operator. I also saw that you prefer nose in orientation when flying. I do too and did from day one. I wouldn't do it any other way. From what I've heard that's one of the hardest things to master. I guess jib work with remote heads have taught me about reverse orientation. On lift off I like to hover about a foot or two over the pad and then do a left or right yaw and perform a high tail corkscrew maneuver just like the big boys! I flew for the first time in direct overhead noon broad daylight yesterday and I have concluded that I am going to have to make a 3 LED array for each fixture because I just couldn't see those things well enough beyond 50 ft even with 3 seperate ones staring me in the face. Did you see my day flight videos with the wing lights? As far as high altitude overhead (300 ft -500 ft) flight, I use the green LEDs as the nose lights firing straight down because it contrasts better with the blue sky especially on overcast days.

I totally agree about that perceived delay of control. I think that may have contributed to my last fatal crash where I was in a perfect 300 ft hover and was trying to bring it back from about 400 ft horizontal and I may have overdone the forward pitch causing the front rotor to tap the frame and disintegrate. Oh, it was just horrific because it was such a long dive!! [X(][:'(] I will post pictures of that traumatic scene shortly. In case you didn't read back far enough, here is my post with the LED info. I am currently using the Princeton Tec Pulsar II for the nose, wing and landing lights. I use their Eclipse II with the strobe for the tail. I also have a variety of colors of the Maxxlights that I am testing.


Related Nav Light Post
www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3615334
Old 12-08-2005, 02:19 PM
  #1584  
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ORIGINAL: yvesOttawa

Hi 1videoman1,

Just wondering if you were still flying with CF blades and metal screws.

Thanks,
Me too.
Old 12-08-2005, 02:37 PM
  #1585  
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Isolator

Scot. Did you see my attempt to create isolation for the eyecam mount? I placed some weatherstripping foam in both ball joints completely surrounding the ball in each joint. It didn't seem to remove the waves. This is really interesting because I didn't experience waves this prevalent the first time I used the camera a few weeks ago with no padding at all, specifically the camera test demos. I'm going to try putting some foam around the lens barrel so that the camera is not touching anything at all. I was wondering if you could try doing this as well in addition to your isolator if you already haven't.

Isolator Relative Post
www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3619343
Old 12-08-2005, 08:52 PM
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Jeff -Thanks for the supportive comment on my little demo! I was so busy shooting weddings for the last few months that I had almost no spare time at all. Next year I am going to reduce that workload. I also bought an electric assist bicycle and have rode it to work most every day (7.9 miles) since mid September with a total of 800 miles so far. The Draganflyer and flight bag may be going with me on that puppy next year. Using bungie cords they strap on the back carrier rack.
You can see the bike here: http://www.evglobal.com/36volt.html
It should save lots of gas going all over town to shoot video. I did a LOT of flying this year.

The foam was worth a try but is so compressed that it might not provide much benifit. The vibration is a complex resonance problem so I am still convinced that you have to overcome it through a resonant mechanical advantage. I have tried over two hundred combinations of components and nothing that I have tried so far works as well as my first three element arm. That thing floats so freely that even foam transmits vibration like a hammer to it. Another test I am about to try is my same design except instead of the rubber bands I will be using a material called Sorbothane. I bought some from Edmund Scientific and on my first two test flights I found virtually no vibration. My design has worked perfectly at times but at others it has been hard to adjust so I am hoping this will make it more dependable in eliminating as much of the vibration as possible. The arm works well enough that it always reduces the vibration considerably but I want it as good as it can be all the time. Sorbothane is a strange material. It is like a cross between solid and a liquid to reduce vibration. It feels sticky.

yvesOttawa & Jeff -Yes I use the metal bolts without exception as from what I found instant DF death can be a moment away if you are high up with those nylon bolts. If you fly well and high you shouldn't have to worry much about clipping a blade on a terrestrial object so you have everything to gain by using them. If you hear cross-piece clipping sounds while using the CF blades with nylon bolts you may have little time to recover before one pops apart. I love the metal bolts!

I use taped foam props and CF props only. I found the German CF props to be quite good but had some trouble on a very hot day (102 degrees) with a heavier camera load creating oscillation, landed hard and broke one in half. A new development is that davidtkal is creating some very nice CF props. They are drastically more ridgid. I am waiting for this weather to get better to do some serious flying with those. They could be the very best props available since they shouldn't flex much under heavier loads spilling air and causing oscillation of the flyer. They would be dangerous around people and you sure would not want to get hit with one of them but they are very light, very strong and very stiff.

Jeff I saw the twilight videos using your lights. You sure fly well for such little time learning. I use a simulator to keep sharp with it. After learning to fly nose in that is still my preference. That thing sure looks like a UFO. That has to be great fun with the lights. I like the idea of putting three together for more punch in the daylight. Have you considered high power luxeon LED lights? They pull more power however and extra battery weight may make them impractical but they are supposed to be the brightest LEDs in the world.
Old 12-08-2005, 10:54 PM
  #1587  
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Isolator

Did you try using the foam in the ball joints in addition to your 3 stage arm? If your arm already works great it should be even better with the ball joints cushioned.


Sorbothane

Is that material like the gel in a mousepad?


I thought you worked at a network affilliate station as a shooter?






Old 12-09-2005, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Jeff - I have not used the foam around the joints but it would be a quick thing to test. The sorbothane is unique. I think it is similar to the gel but is specifically manufactured for the sole purpose of vibration and shock absorption. The first time I saw it was on the NBC network Today show that I aired from our local TV station years ago. That is my full time job. I am a broadcast engineer - operator. Our station has recently acquired two more stations and now we have three going under our master control area. Normally I operate three cameras for the local morning newscasts and then master control for the rest of the day. I never go in the field to shoot for the station I just work in the studio. My side business is presently focused on wedding videography. I want to diversify for the new year with DF video and still photography to get away from the computer a bit more. Sitting all the time has negative health consequences and it's so much fun to get out with the flyer especially. After 18 years at the station I would really like to take off with my own business and leave the TV world behind but haven't taken the plunge yet.

Have you checked out the Luxeon LEDs? I thought you would be the one to know if those have any potential for use on the DF relative to your LED experiences.
Old 12-09-2005, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

ORIGINAL: 1videoman1
Have you checked out the Luxeon LEDs? I thought you would be the one to know if those have any potential for use on the DF relative to your LED experiences.
I did take a look at those by doing a Google search and it initially looks like their 3 LED arrays would do well as far as brightness, however, they do require more power as you mentioned. I will check further.

Master control!? That's as stressful as air traffic control. I have punched a few live multi-cam shows myself. That's about as stressful as a DF at 1000 ft with a slight headwind! So when you say you operate 3 studio cameras, I assume they are the new robotic pedastal kind? That's where it's going. Our ABC affilliate has been using those for a while now as well as CNN Atlanta. Who owns your stations and when do they expect to be HD compliant?

Old 12-10-2005, 10:37 AM
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Granite Broadcasting is the owner and our HD transmitter has been in operation for a few years already. One of the newly acquired channels is also transmitting in HD remotely. The cameras are not robotic but the directors work around that by giving us time to get the shots. Your right about master control. At times things can go down hill like an avalanch just like with the flyer. You have to react calmly and not let the stress take you down. Most of the time however it is smooth sailing but that can change quickly.
Old 12-10-2005, 03:08 PM
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I figured yall were owned by Meredith in Des Moines. They own our CBS affilliate in Atlanta. It's getting really bad for freelance shooters. The average rate for serious news outlets is $300-$500 for each package, mostly exclusives, but not with CBS46. They will only pay around $100 for exclusive and $50 for shared, translation, not from me they won't! As far as news which I don't do much of, I have mostly shot for the ABC affiliate WSB, and for CNN. This is a top ten market and no wonder WSB is rated number one, they actually pay a decent rate to get exclusive footage! I have been mostly shooting reality type content for Discovery Networks (Discovery, Discovery Health, TLC), MTV, A&E, Fine Living, etc..

Here is a really cool informative DV Production board, DV Info Net that you may be interested in. They cover just about everything from acquisition to post.


Main Board
www.dvinfo.net/conf

www.dvinfo.net
Old 12-10-2005, 03:50 PM
  #1592  
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

More Cool Lighting Systems

Once at this page, scroll down to the Jupiter 2 light kit. I am wanting that chase light LED array for my DF!
www.voodoofx.com/fiberfx.htm

Here are some other cool custom lighting links:

www.elwirecheap.com

www.glowire.com

www.theglowcompany.co.uk

www.litewave.co.uk
Old 12-11-2005, 11:12 AM
  #1593  
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Jeff, It sounds like you have some real interesting freelance work there. That wouldn't happen much that I know of in the the central Illinois area being such a small market. It sounds like great work. Some clients however want the world for less than half the price. They aren't worth my time either! Been there done that and it will just make you want to quit.

Those links are great! Great DV references! Some of that model lighting looks just like what's used in the movies for sure.
Old 12-11-2005, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

If you are looking for sorbothane and can't find any. They do make it as insole inserts for running shoes. I have seen it at Walmart shoe departments as well as sporting good stores.
Old 12-11-2005, 11:50 PM
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Lastest Video using standard eyecam mount

Below are two demo videos of the DF that I shot this evening about an hour before dark using the standard eyecam mount. The second one has some higher altitude footage and was a scary experience when it came to bringing back the helo from a considerable height and distance. Both demos turned out nicer than I expected and with less vibration than I have been experiencing. The self induced spin in both was intentional to ensure a fast, smooth descent. I have found that vertical or horizontal descents from higher altitudes are more shaky and cause rotor clipping respectively so I am a true believer in laminating the rotors in case of frame strikes. See this [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3619343]post link[/link] showing the padding that I'm using in the mount's ball joints.

This demo shows the construction of a new high school and is just some hovering shots to try and maintain a constant position. I did have a monitor but have found that it's not a good idea to alternate back and forth from trying to watch the helo and watch the monitor. Too much can happen real fast if you get locked onto the monitor you actually cant find the helo in the sky for a few seconds and by then something could have happened. I am probably going to check into getting the video eyewear.


Construction Arial Demo
[link=http://161.58.78.36/asx/helo/skylink/rc/CONSTRUCTIONARIAL.asx]Construction Arial Demo[/link]

______________________________________________

Once reaching the highest point, my 6 minute alarm (halfway point) went off and it was time to start bringing it back safely. When I began doing that at that height, I heard the infamous frame tapping noise of the rotors. I quickly let the Ti recover the level but was still along way away from the pad. [X(] I realized then that the only reason I was still flying was because I had taped the rotors top and bottom. I would be rebuilding a totalled DF it those rotors had not have been laminated. Once inducing the spin while descending, I temporarily lost orientation of the nose even though I had nav lights. It all just happened so fast and I was at such a distance that by the time I saw the lights indicating the nose, I had overcorrected. I did this back and forth several times and it was a site to behold, those lights twirling in the sky. The DF was pendulating like a leaf out of a tree as it descended. When you're up there, you don't have time to think, if you think, you're dead! Sorry, I just had to say that. Somehow, after wrestling with it for about 2 minutes while spinning and tilting I got it closer, lower, finally stabilized ultimately landing in the palm of my hand. I probably had only a minute of battery left with all that stunt flying going on. I never would have been able to recover without having nav lights to indicate nose orientation. I honestly could not believe I got it back in one piece. What a machine! [sm=thumbup.gif]

School Property Arial Demo
[link=http://161.58.78.36/asx/helo/skylink/rc/SCHOOLPROPERTYARIAL.asx]School Property Arial Demo[/link]

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Old 12-12-2005, 08:11 PM
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1videoman1
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Jeff, Wow do those lights make it happen at night! That is some real flying skill there! Isn't that recovery a rush!! Excellent job with this. That vibration gets a bit more of a problem the higher you go and that has been my experience also - exactly. We'll get that down a bit as we go along. I take the flyer down in an arc across the sky now to avoid that prop downwash. No snow where you are but we are still covered here.
Old 12-12-2005, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Hello,

I recently purchased a DF V Ti after toiling with the X-UFO. I have had helicopters for years and wanted something new. I am very pleased with the
characteristics of this model and ease of control. The only drawback for me is the appearance. I have always wanted to fly a UFO that looked like a UFO. I am trying to figure out a way to attach a shroud around the periphery to appear like the Lost In Space craft. So far... unsuccessful. In the meantime I have fabricated spring-loaded landing gears. They are functional and actually give the flyer more stability. I have enjoyed reading this long post and am looking forward in exchanging future ideas. I have been tryng to upload pictures, but every time I do it states there was an error saving file to disc.
As soon as I figure it out the pics will be posted

kuzer
Old 12-12-2005, 08:39 PM
  #1598  
Sky High
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Did you put some lights on your helo or are you talking about mine? And yes, even though it was scary, it was rather thrilling to recover from that mess of a situation and that experience will pay off for future flights. It was so much more dramatic and suspenseful from my point of view on the ground. At one point the helo almost went below my field of view because of the roof line of the building that I was behind. I felt like Cougar in Top Gun after seeing that MIG when he was rolling left and right on his approach to the carrier except I didn't have a wingman to help bring me back. [X(] When I finally did get it back close to me, I was wanting to land on the ground so bad to make it complete but as you saw, after a few approaches and flybys, I was concerned about the battery level so I just thought, I'm not going to crash this thing at less than 5 ft after what I just went through. So I just landed in my hand and went to the house!
Old 12-12-2005, 08:50 PM
  #1599  
Sky High
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

Howdy Kuzer. I'm no structural engineer but wouldn't a body or rotor shroud like on the X-UFO brand create more drag and be more succeptible to wind current? As far as the DF's looks, I have gotten nothing but positive comments about how unique it is and mostly how does that thing fly?

There is a limit of 3 mb for images. I don't know if that is per post or totally. Check your file sizes and then add them up.
Old 12-12-2005, 08:53 PM
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Default RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?

It probably would create drag but I'm sure it could be done and function as well. I did upload the pictures to my gallery. They are listed under kuzer gallery in the helicopter section.

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