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Brushless Draganflyer?

Old 01-10-2007, 08:28 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

ORIGINAL: lacycopter,
I agree if you can read /write and understand/speak German and live closer for delivery and parts it may be right for you.
I've been following the forum I can understand in english, and they are having Lots of problems with them.
Read it and see: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...&page=29&pp=15
Not one of them have come anywhere near flying and taking video like Sky High has here and proven how capable the DF is.
They had some isolated probs with compatibility with the stock Tx and the X-3D gyro upgrade ... the BL upgrade will replace the main board and remove that problem since you will be able to add your own Rx module ...

--Eric--
Old 01-11-2007, 09:08 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

Hi Eric,
Well I've read about more problems then just that....But anyhow I hope they do get it all worked out.
I heard the ufo is not being sold anymore so you can't even get a stock mainboard or replacement parts.
You will have to buy their frame and find blades somewhere, and until the new mainboard they are making is out...
Well you're kinda outta luck...

I finally got to fly DF with somebody that had a X-3D and I will admit for it's size it was pretty impressive. But the motors and blades are 1/2 the size of the DF...I could definitely out vertical climb it and DF is more stable at higher altitudes...but it was able to make some fast sharp turns.

I'll wait and see what the BL X-3D is like ....and how much it costs and how available parts are to me.
The guy told me he had like $800 invested so far...Yipes!! [X(]
I sure wouldn't trade my DF for it.....no way!!
Happy Flyin,
Lacey
Old 01-12-2007, 04:43 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

Yeah,this looks like trouble allright..
http://www.erop.de/x-3d-bl_acc.wmv
Old 01-12-2007, 05:42 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

It looks like it is very boring to fly. The guys are walking around like they are ready to slide into a coma...

Just kidding this is fantastic! It is also a sign of things to come.
Old 01-12-2007, 06:29 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

Wow, I wished my DF flew like that!
Old 01-12-2007, 07:03 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

Impressive video, that's almost Microdrone-like stability. I wonder what that upgrade is going to cost?

Will
Old 01-13-2007, 07:08 AM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

I wouldn't expect microdrone-style pricing on that self levelling upgrade,thats for sure.
And another thing,there WILL be a brushless x-ufo accompanying my DF in my "hangar" thats for sure too
[sm=teeth_smile.gif]
Old 01-13-2007, 10:33 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

I have read here about the pogo effect of the DF and how you need to compensate with throttle to maintain level flight - which you do (not as much with flat blades like the carbon, imo). You notice how the additional sensors in the 3d are throttling in the video. Guess you can't get away from it ,although it must be nice for it to do it on it's own.
Old 01-13-2007, 10:53 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

ORIGINAL: festusflyer

I have read here about the pogo effect of the DF and how you need to compensate with throttle to maintain level flight - which you do (not as much with flat blades like the carbon, imo). You notice how the additional sensors in the 3d are throttling in the video. Guess you can't get away from it ,although it must be nice for it to do it on it's own.
That would account for some sort of drift compensation ... I've noticed that effect with the X-3D alone ... but, WOW, this is cool!

--Eric--
Old 01-13-2007, 11:04 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

Once you get used to the "pogo" effect, it's easy enough to compensate for. You figure out just how much throttle you'll really need, remembering it generally takes more throttle movement (in either direction) to stop upward or downward motion than it does to maintain position. "Pogoing" happens when the pilot starts chasing the throttle and gets behind. This "control chasing" happens in real flying, too, where it's referred to as "pilot induced oscillation."

Anyway, the point is that the "pogoing" in the video is being induced by their autopilot...it's not just a fact of life of the four-rotor design or anything. I admit it IS comforting to know a machine can get behind the controls, too! (Sensor drift could also account for some of it...?)

Will
Old 01-13-2007, 11:22 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

ORIGINAL: TheHindmost

Once you get used to the "pogo" effect, it's easy enough to compensate for. You figure out just how much throttle you'll really need, remembering it generally takes more throttle movement (in either direction) to stop upward or downward motion than it does to maintain position. "Pogoing" happens when the pilot starts chasing the throttle and gets behind. This "control chasing" happens in real flying, too, where it's referred to as "pilot induced oscillation."

Anyway, the point is that the "pogoing" in the video is being induced by their autopilot...it's not just a fact of life of the four-rotor design or anything. I admit it IS comforting to know a machine can get behind the controls, too! (Sensor drift could also account for some of it...?)

Will
Yup ... the "pogo" effect takes a little getting used to ... but becomes 2nd nature after a while. The current firmware of the X-3D also seems to lose a little altitude when yaw pirouetting ... but it can be easily compensated through mixing a little throttle into the left/right yaw control in the Tx. The X-3D also allows you to re-orientate the front of the four rotors so that you can fly front rotor forward or have two rotors in parallel forward. If they add a little AI into the thing ... watch out, we can have another Stealth on your hands
--Eric--
Old 01-14-2007, 12:03 AM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?


ORIGINAL: tend2it

If they add a little AI into the thing ... watch out, we can have another Stealth on your hands
Actually, that could be a great computer science project! You build a generic AI engine and put it on a four rotor craft with all the sensors necessary for autonomous flight. Then you see if you can "teach" it to fly. You don't get to pre-program anything. That could be interesting!

Will
Old 01-18-2007, 03:41 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

this is all very cool, but what is the price, since you need to buy everything from different vendors?

Does anyone sell the whole thing.. I see people are buying frames from one guy and then buy gyros from someone else and then the BL upgrade is done by yet another person... and then you need s silverlit UFO and then you need to get a real TX, Some buy the X-UFO clone, But I do not understand why you need to buy a Silverlit UFO or XUFO if you are replacing all the parts anyways..

and then what is the cost?

I like it, but it needs to have ONE face to the public... too much backroom R&R from everyone tyring to make something.. and it seems to changes all the time

So the people that bought the first $180 gyro upgrade now need another gyro with a TI type leveling? or can they upgrade the gyro they bought to replce the mechincal junk that ships with it...

the self leveling was very nice!! and it was indoors also! that is way cool!!!
Old 01-18-2007, 03:47 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

Hi!

You will be able to get everything including the X-CSM frame, the Brushless X-3D components, mainboard, reciever, acceleration sensor upgrade (X-ACC) and the props from www.xufo-shop.de. They will release an english website soon! You don't need the originial X-Ufo anymore. The only part, that is "original" are the props. But they are available as spare part from the X-Ufoshop (4 props for 8,9EUR).

Jast
Old 01-18-2007, 04:12 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

Jast's latest post shows that they also experimented with GPS control as well [link]http://www.erop.de/gps_ufo.wmv[/link] ... hands off control with homing to a target spot ... cool ... but Jast said that they were only experimenting ... don't know if it will ever make it into an upgrade mod.

--Eric--
Old 01-18-2007, 06:40 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

I have the same question at HoverDown3K, Sooooooo what is the price for the whole package??? (US $$$ please)
And where is the site that you can order in english so you know what you are ordering, who it is being shipped with and how much it is costing.
I like to know that Stuff before I order anything.
Thanx,
Lacey
Old 01-18-2007, 08:37 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

I looked through the site, made a list of everything i think one would need to put a complete unit together (though i may be missing a piece or 2) and came up with (a verrrry loose total) of approx. $950US - not including shipping. and may I say again - i may not have included all that one would need in my list of parts.
Old 01-19-2007, 04:30 AM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

Hi!

Sorry, prices are not fixed yet. But I can tell you, that the whole kit they will be around a DF 5 TI. It's not RTF, but build together with a screwdriver and with simple cable soldering within an evening. Many people already have a frame and the X-3D. They can use both for the brushless. Shipping costs are different depending on shipping time and location. The XUfo-Shop.de is selling all the stuff. They are going to launch an english website very soon so that the ordering process gets more convinient for you.

The GPS-UFO was only a test and a technical demonstration. For really using GPS you need 3 gyroscopes, 3 acceleration sensors which are/will be available with the X-3D but furthermore you need 3 magnetic field sensors and a height sensor which can not be connected to the X-3D. Thus GPS might me released in the very far future but it won't be compatible with the X-3D. But why would you need GPS for a fun air vehicle? :-) The X-ACC (acceleration sensor upgrade) (Video: http://forum.xufo.net/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3737 ) will be available mid 2007 as an upgrade. It's comparable to TI, but much better and much more precise as it uses the earth gravity vector to measure an absolute angle. That works everywhere and anytime.

Regards
Jast
Old 02-05-2007, 01:56 AM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

I m kind of new to this quad rotor Rc hobby, So please bear with me. When does that new X-3D UFO come out. Is it the fler i see on ggogle video of it flying in the snow? It looks like it is great. I will buy a DF someday but right now I want one so bad I think i will go with the less expensive X-3D, when it comes out. So iguess I want to know when the 3D will be available for purchase, who is a good online dealer, and hough much will it $$.
Thanks
Jason
Old 02-05-2007, 04:44 AM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

Hi!

The X-3D BL Ufo that's flying in the snow video was an early prototype. The most recent versions are more enhanced. Have a look at our latest videos:

http://forum.xufo.net/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3295 (acrobatic flight)
http://forum.xufo.net/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3737 (flight with acceleration sensors)
http://forum.xufo.net/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3726 (night flight during a thunderstorm)

The brushless parts will be available earliest in mid april. We decided to do a beta test with some people which is starting this week. This delayed the release about 1.5 month, but I guess it's very important that if you pay prices in the region of a DF V the system is tested well.

We recommend the new X-CSM frame in combination with the brushless kit or as replacement frame for the X-Ufo. You can find images here:

http://forum.xufo.net/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3693

Regards

Jast

Old 02-10-2007, 04:06 AM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vylB_vdWLFg
new video of the brushless ufo
Old 02-10-2007, 11:42 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

Wow, the 8 rotor machine was a suprise, and piggy back launching too, nice.
can we have some still photos?
Old 02-25-2007, 01:19 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

I just blew up the main board on my X-UFO yesterday. I was upgrading to a lipo battery, bought the necessary adapters from my local hobby shop, soldered it up, charged the battery and then went to plug it in. I know it's my own fault for not noticing, but the tamiya male and female adapters that I bought in the hobby store have exactly the opposite polarity from the tamiya adapter coming out of the X-UFO mainboard. IE on the original X-UFO mainboard and battery, red goes to the round side of the adapter, and black goes to the square side. Exactly the opposite of what you buy in the store. I can't quite figure this out, I wonder how the lipo adapter kits available for sale have the correct adapter configuration. If I were to reverse the wires coming out of the battery, then I would not be able to charge it, because the female tamiya adapter hooked up to the charger would then be wrong. Anybody know where I can get another mainboard? I've inquired at the http://www.xufo-shop.de/ support email several times now about other issues and things I wanted to buy, but they are not answering any of my emails. I'm going to attempt to repair the mainboard today, if I can find out what made that loud "POP" when I plugged the battery in. I can't see any damage to any of the components on the mainboard, but I know there is, because aside from the pop, there was a fine watery mist that appeared on the inside of the clear protective plastic dome, and then of course, that smell... If anyone can tell me just what component is likely to have been ruined and how I might repair it, I would sure appreciate it.

If I'm in the wrong forum area, somebody please direct me to the correct one, thanks.
Old 02-25-2007, 06:50 PM
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Default RE: Brushless Draganflyer?

Sorry to be the one to tell ya......But your board is Toast.. [&o]
A few of my friends did the same thing...We tried to repair them but the board is multi-layer surface mount.
I don't think you are going to find another board, they don't make the UFO anymore.
You can try is check with these guys.. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...60#post6989603
that work on them....This is a forum for the Draganfly...I don't think anybody can help you here.
Good Luck,
Lacey
Old 02-25-2007, 07:02 PM
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Yeah, I agree, bad news. There is something maybe good coming out of this though. I went to radio shack today with the mainboard, and the guy working there spotted the source of the "POP" and puff of water vapor. The very first capacitor right after the power wires come on to the board had the bottom popped right out of it, and the fibrous stuffing was very evident. You cannot see this capacitor in the picture you posted on the other thread, but it would be on the far left of the picture behind and obscured by that thin vertical rectangular object. The guy explained that the moisture was an electrolytic fluid from inside the capacitor when it blew. He surmises that since the thing popped instantly when I plugged the battery in, that it might have acted in the same fashion as a fuse and not allowed the current to pass through to the rest of the board. We shall see...I've replaced the capacitor already, but I still have to replace two resistors that got broken by my thumb squashing them accidentally when I was trying to lift the gyro off the main board. Radio shack does not carry the resistors I need, so I'll have to wait until Tuesday to go down to Norvac's to pick them up.

BTW, as far as I know, the UFO is still being built, in fact, I've just contacted the US distributor for them last week and am actually finalizing arrangements to become a reseller. I will be offering them myself on eBay soon.The new (2nd) generation version, the ones I'll be retailing, (like the one I blew up) have an improved mechanical gyro that will not break in a simple crash. Having access to them on a wholesale level, though, does not deter me from wanting to see if this one can be repaired. If it can, it wil be good news for lots of people.

Probably will be Tuesday before I get the final repairs done and see if it will work, will keep you all posted.

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