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New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

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New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

Old 10-24-2007, 04:42 AM
  #1  
Old Man Mike
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Default New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

During the last few weeks I have had the privilege of testing a new Brushless Draganflyer board converted by Mike Dammar (the Draganflyer designer). The features of this board are:

1) Works with the motors and ESCs used in my DF Brushless Conversion.

2) Eliminates the Optical Isolators

3) Eliminates the patched connections to the receiver module

4) Eliminates the 30 Ohm Resistors.

5) Runs with the default ESC settings.

6) Improves efficiency by 25%. 30 ounce system (approx 8 ounce payload) flys at 100 watts with throttle at 60%.

7) Tested at 70 ounce thrust level for maximum throttle.

8) Loop Gain changed for greater stability with the brushless motors (no more oscillations)

Dammar would like to have some feedback via email from anyone that could be interested in buying the brushless version of the board (incudes Berg Receiver) for $375 plus shipping. He also plans to include a free 8 pin motor connector with pins and a set of rotor blades with the order. If he gets enough emails from people who want to buy it, then he will provide them in a limited quantity. Those who have the new style board with the four pin headers in the front (only a few of these out there) will be able to have their boards converted for $50.

Dammar's email is: [email protected]

(Be sure to put the words "Brushless DF" in the Subject line to avoid being lost in spam mail.)

Those of you that have flown the Draganflyer with the first brushess conversion know how smooth the flight can be. There is also improvement going from my conversion to Dammar's conversion which is mostly from tuning the gyro feedback and the TI sensitivity. I can say that with the old DF, I would never take my hands off the controls. I have flown this new board (in TI) fully loaded (10 oz payload, 30 oz system) with hands off for 20 seconds. I have only tried the board with Fieago motors used in my original conversion but have the outrunner motors that Rusty uses and will try those soon. By the way, that 335 foot flight I posted with video was using the new card.

Again, the conversion of the original Draganflyer to brushless using this PWB is based on the motors and ESCs shown in this documentation:

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6316400/tm.htm]Draganflyer Brushless Conversion Documentation[/link]

Mike
Old 10-24-2007, 05:41 AM
  #2  
woorie
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

No chance with old board? Or, hopefully $50 for converting + Berg? [&o]

K.J. Woo
Old 10-24-2007, 07:19 AM
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13BRV3
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

Hi Mike,

Does the new board have a receiver built in, or do you use your own receiver? If it's built in, is it going to be limited to 72 MHz, or will they have 2.4 GHz options?

Does the board still use the same sensors as before (gyros, and TI)? I assume no compass, GPS, barometric sensor???

Thanks,
Rusty
Old 10-24-2007, 10:53 AM
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msarid
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

Mike
After you make the test fly there is different in the the flying profile compare to the "old board"???
You told us what the new boad included but I am sure that all of us want to receive flying report.
Moti
Old 10-24-2007, 02:08 PM
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Old Man Mike
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

I've updated my first post to provide information about the inclusion of the Berg receiver and on the flying performance.

Rusty: If you don't want the 72 Mhz Berg receiver, you might ask if he would supply the board at a reduced price without it. The board still uses the same sensors as before.

Woorie: You can ask Dammar about converting a pre-Berg board but I very much doubt that he will be doing that. And from his statement, I think that even most who have the Berg receiver probably do not have the latest board with the four groups of 3 pin pads in the front.

Mike
Old 10-24-2007, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

Hi Mike
If I understand correct we will have the possibilty to adjust the gyro & Ti sensivity from the Tx on separate channels??(for large frame) If "yes" that a good progres.
Moti
Old 10-24-2007, 03:04 PM
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!


ORIGINAL: msarid

Hi Mike
If I understand correct we will have the possibilty to adjust the gyro & Ti sensivity from the Tx on separate channels??(for large frame) If "yes" that a good progres.
Moti
Probably Yes for Ti Sensitivity since Dammar has done that on special request and I assume he will still do that. But I think that the board will normally come with a fixed TI setting optimized for the brushless conversion.

As for Gyro gain, that is not currently available as a user adjustable option. Of course if Dammar receives enough email about it, he might consider providing some sort of option in this area.

Mike
Old 10-24-2007, 03:29 PM
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msarid
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

Hi mike
Mike did the Ti mod on my board per my request by moving it to channel 6 so i can adjust it acording whether condition,and it work perfect so i think if he want to sell the new board more easy he have to give us the possibility to adjust the gyro gain like other DF manufucturs. (I hope he read this thread)
Moti
Old 10-24-2007, 04:16 PM
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Old Man Mike
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!


ORIGINAL: msarid

Hi mike
Mike did the Ti mod on my board per my request by moving it to channel 6 so i can adjust it acording whether condition,and it work perfect so i think if he want to sell the new board more easy he have to give us the possibility to adjust the gyro gain like other DF manufucturs. (I hope he read this thread)
Moti
I can almost guarantee that he will NOT read this thread. He is so busy with the projects that he rarely seems to read any forums. Again, the best bet to influence is the email.

Mike
Old 10-24-2007, 06:52 PM
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VRNowhere
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!


ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike

Dammar would like to have some feedback via email from anyone that could be interested in buying the brushless version of the board (incudes Berg Receiver) for $375 plus shipping. He also plans to include a free 8 pin motor connector with pins and a set of rotor blades with the order. If he gets enough emails from people who want to buy it, then he will provide them in a limited quantity. Those who have the new style board with the four pin headers in the front (only a few of these out there) will be able to have their boards converted for $50.
At $375, the upgrade seems a little steep. Going from IV to V Ti, the upgrade was only $130 (if I remember correctly) for a limited period of time.
Old 10-24-2007, 07:58 PM
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Old Man Mike
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!


ORIGINAL: VRNowhere


ORIGINAL: Old Man Mike

Dammar would like to have some feedback via email from anyone that could be interested in buying the brushless version of the board (incudes Berg Receiver) for $375 plus shipping. He also plans to include a free 8 pin motor connector with pins and a set of rotor blades with the order. If he gets enough emails from people who want to buy it, then he will provide them in a limited quantity. Those who have the new style board with the four pin headers in the front (only a few of these out there) will be able to have their boards converted for $50.
At $375, the upgrade seems a little steep. Going from IV to V Ti, the upgrade was only $130 (if I remember correctly) for a limited period of time.
Remember that a new board cost $400 from RCtoys. You are not sending in your old board, you are buying a new one. I suppose you could sell your old card for $200 to someone not interested in the conversion and then the new board Brushless card would effectively cost $175.

Mike


Old 11-01-2007, 06:59 PM
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jesolins
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

Gotta ask... why spring even $375 for it if the only improvement is brushless and the $30 opti-coupler mod on the older boards works so well??
Cheers,
Jim
Old 11-01-2007, 08:28 PM
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Old Man Mike
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!


ORIGINAL: jesolins

Gotta ask... why spring even $375 for it if the only improvement is brushless and the $30 opti-coupler mod on the older boards works so well??
Cheers,
Jim
That and you do get a 25% improvement in efficiency so battery life is longer. Also, I have never seen the 0.8 sec power drop with the Dammar Brushless card. I did see it a couple of time with my brushless modification and a lot more often with the original DF. Dammar claims that the 68uf cures the noise problem with the original DF board but I did have one (maybe very unique) that demonstrated the problem even with the 68uf. Since the noise source on the PWB were from the Hexfets, it makes sense that the problem could be eliminated when they are no longer doing the PWM.

Mike



Old 11-01-2007, 10:43 PM
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Blackdragan
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

5) Runs with the default ESC settings.
Mike,

With the new brushless board from Spectrolutions, is the "default ESC setting" based on the ESC factory setting when purchased from United Hobbies or is it based on the programed setting currently being used to make the brushless conversion?

Thanks,

John
Old 11-02-2007, 02:37 AM
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!


ORIGINAL: Blackdragan

5) Runs with the default ESC settings.
Mike,

With the new brushless board from Spectrolutions, is the "default ESC setting" based on the ESC factory setting when purchased from United Hobbies or is it based on the programed setting currently being used to make the brushless conversion?

Thanks,

John
"Default ESC setting" is the ESC factory setting when purchased from United Hobbies.

Mike
Old 11-06-2007, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

Mike,

I am sending my new style board which has the 4 pin headers to Spectrolutions to have it converted to the new brushless board by Mike Dammar. Could you please post any instructions, wiring diagrams, pictures etc, I will need for connecting the electrical components to the brushless board?

Thanks,

John
Old 11-07-2007, 07:07 AM
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Old Man Mike
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!


ORIGINAL: Blackdragan

Mike,

I am sending my new style board which has the 4 pin headers to Spectrolutions to have it converted to the new brushless board by Mike Dammar. Could you please post any instructions, wiring diagrams, pictures etc, I will need for connecting the electrical components to the brushless board?

Thanks,

John
It is really just a plug and play operation once you know the identification of the pin groups. I will try and post some pictures with labels later today.

Mike
Old 11-08-2007, 06:43 AM
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Old Man Mike
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

Well, I tried to post the pictures but for some reason it is not allowing me. Maybe RC Universe is broken or I've reached some sort of limit. I will try again later.

Mike
Old 11-08-2007, 05:21 PM
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Old Man Mike
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!


ORIGINAL: Blackdragan

Mike,

I am sending my new style board which has the 4 pin headers to Spectrolutions to have it converted to the new brushless board by Mike Dammar. Could you please post any instructions, wiring diagrams, pictures etc, I will need for connecting the electrical components to the brushless board?

Thanks,

John
John,

Here are the pictures showing the connections.

Mike
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Old 11-08-2007, 06:37 PM
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Blackdragan
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

Mike,

Thank you for posting the pictures. I am assuming the brushless board comes with front connector pins already installed, which allows you to just plug in the ESC's?

Thanks,

John
Old 11-08-2007, 07:51 PM
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Old Man Mike
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!


ORIGINAL: Blackdragan

Mike,

Thank you for posting the pictures. I am assuming the brushless board comes with front connector pins already installed, which allows you to just plug in the ESC's?

Thanks,

John
Yes.

Mike
Old 11-09-2007, 06:20 PM
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

Mike,

Are the ESC's wires long enough to be reach the (8 pin) motor connection on the bottom of the board or do they have to first be spliced to the original wiring harness?

Thanks,

John
Old 11-09-2007, 10:15 PM
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Old Man Mike
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!


ORIGINAL: Blackdragan

Mike,

Are the ESC's wires long enough to be reach the (8 pin) motor connection on the bottom of the board or do they have to first be spliced to the original wiring harness?

Thanks,

John
If you are using the existing DF frame, you really don't need to use the 8 pin motor connection at all. It is best to just wire all four ESCs directly to Battery Ground (Black Wire) and after the positive side fuse (Red Wire). The servo wires from the ESCs are long enough to reach the front pins with no problem. You can actually save some weight by removing the original connector and wiring harness (and even the Hexfets if you want to bother with unsoldering them from the board). While you could use the motor harness wires, the total resistances is greater plus you will have more potential noise conduction to the 5 volt supply thru the Hexfets. That noise is believed to be the source of the infamous 0.8 sec dropout so eliminating it is a big plus.

Mike


Old 11-09-2007, 11:47 PM
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!

If you are using the existing DF frame, you really don't need to use the 8 pin motor connection at all. It is best to just wire all four ESCs directly to Battery Ground (Black Wire) and after the positive side fuse (Red Wire). The servo wires from the ESCs are long enough to reach the front pins with no problem. You can actually save some weight by removing the original connector and wiring harness (and even the Hexfets if you want to bother with unsoldering them from the board). While you could use the motor harness wires, the total resistances is greater plus you will have more potential noise conduction to the 5 volt supply thru the Hexfets. That noise is believed to be the source of the infamous 0.8 sec dropout so eliminating it is a big plus.

Mike
Mike,

Is there any chance you could post a picture showing the connection you described above?

Thanks,

John
Old 11-10-2007, 01:19 AM
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Old Man Mike
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Default RE: New Brushless DF Board Soon Available !!


ORIGINAL: Blackdragan

If you are using the existing DF frame, you really don't need to use the 8 pin motor connection at all. It is best to just wire all four ESCs directly to Battery Ground (Black Wire) and after the positive side fuse (Red Wire). The servo wires from the ESCs are long enough to reach the front pins with no problem. You can actually save some weight by removing the original connector and wiring harness (and even the Hexfets if you want to bother with unsoldering them from the board). While you could use the motor harness wires, the total resistances is greater plus you will have more potential noise conduction to the 5 volt supply thru the Hexfets. That noise is believed to be the source of the infamous 0.8 sec dropout so eliminating it is a big plus.

Mike
Mike,

Is there any chance you could post a picture showing the connection you described above?

Thanks,

John
Here you go.

You only see two black wires because I chose to connect two motors to each of these wires rather than trying to solder all four to the same pad.

(and before you ask, that round white/black coil on the leg of the fuse is the current pickup coil for the Eagletree recording box.)

Mike
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