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I need some technical help!

Old 12-21-2007, 09:12 PM
  #1  
AVILLC
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Default I need some technical help!

O.K. I am new to this stuff. I recieved my DF V Pro about a month ago, I haven't had the time to really get it outin the open with Ti enabled and fly this thing. I have about 25-30 hours of flight Sim time and to tell you the truth, I am getting quite bored with the Sim.
The few times I have had it out side, it was in my driveway and under certain weather conditions (mostly cloudy) the Ti was not coming through. I'm having a hard time just getting it to hover a few inches off the ground. I have already replaced the front and rear landing legs and with that being said. I have had to replace a capacitor on the rear motor. I called DFI and found out the rating of the capacitor needing replacement and ran to my local Radio Shack and found what I needed. I installed it and OPS Chked it and for about 10 minutes in my garage the motors all semmed to run smoothly (even though I still can't get it to hover) While I was dancing it across my floor I SLIGHTLY ran up against a plastic bag full of clothes, all it did was put one of the blades out of alignment. I straightened it out and then powered up and now I get motor surge.

Let me give a little background on myself so as to filter out any un wanted troubleshooting info. I have been invlved with aerospace for the past 18 years. Starting with my first 8 years in the USAF as a crew chief on F16's and F117A Staelth Fighters, I worked for Bombardier Aerospace for a short stint. Currently I work for Pratt & Whitney as a Technical Instructor for their Large Commercial Engines which I formerly used to overhaul for 6 years. I also have a B.S. in Profesional Aeronautics from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in FL. I am a stickler for detail but I am stumped at this point on why the motors surge AND before that started to happen, when getting the DF off the ground the DF oscillated violently (like when a spinning coin does just before it comes to a rest on a flat surface)

I apologize for such a long post, but I am starting to get frustrated. As far as the motor surge I have inspected all the other capacitors and they are intact.

Can someone give me any insight on this problem. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks
Old 12-22-2007, 12:16 AM
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Old Man Mike
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Default RE: I need some technical help!

Hi,

With that much time on the sim, you should be in great shape. However, I must tell you that there is still a learning curve with the real thing. Most of it is just confidence in your flying. For example, I'm sure you understand that there is air turbulence at ground level when you first try to take off. With confidence in your flying, you will have no problem popping the throttle a little to get it up and then leveling it out before it gets to high.

But first let's make absolutely sure that you have TI off for flying in the garage. Although the TI switch on your transmitter should work, you can be even more sure by holding the trottle in the lower left corner as you hit the ARM button. If you are still having problems getting it off the ground and hovering a few seconds, then tie it down loosely with some string at the four motor mounts so that you can apply throttle without fear of flipping. You can then test the sticks to make sure the Draganflyer is responding correctly.

Key milestones are hovering for 15 seconds in the garage. Then one minute. And finally for the entire charge of the battery.

Mike
Old 12-23-2007, 08:15 PM
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AVILLC
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Default RE: I need some technical help!

Thanks for your advice Mike I really appreciate it. I am surprised you are the only one to respond from my post. I do like the idea of teathering the DF, I think I will give that a try.

Merry Christmas!
Old 12-26-2007, 12:33 AM
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FL_PI
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Default RE: I need some technical help!


ORIGINAL: AVILLC

<snip>
While I was dancing it across my floor I SLIGHTLY ran up against a plastic bag full of clothes, all it did was put one of the blades out of alignment. I straightened it out and then powered up and now I get motor surge.
<snip>
I am a stickler for detail but I am stumped at this point on why the motors surge AND before that started to happen, when getting the DF off the ground the DF oscillated violently (like when a spinning coin does just before it comes to a rest on a flat surface)

I apologize for such a long post, but I am starting to get frustrated. As far as the motor surge I have inspected all the other capacitors and they are intact.

Can someone give me any insight on this problem. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks
I am certainly NOT one for TECH answers, but I offer this for what it is worth.

Take a peek at this MPG format video, it is how mine operated after a slight bump of a rotor against a wall. If you can stand the music in the background, if you listen real well to the DF sounds, you can hear the motors surging....

In *my* estimation your description SOUNDS like it is similar to the "dance" as I described it, that you say yours does.

The video runs for something like 1:18 minutes and then repeats for another 1:18 minutes

You can view my complete post just a few entries down from yours in the forum.

Since the forum doesn't like the MPG format of the video, I posted it on my website at:
http://www.infoagency.com/games/df-problem-dance.mpg

Good luck! you are in GOOD hands here, the guys on this forum are VERY knowledgeable and MOST helpful.
And the folks at Spectrolutions are great and if you're on the south side of the border, easier to get stuff to and from (IMHO) when sending/ordering from the factory in Canada.

Ed - KG4KVO
[8D]
Old 12-26-2007, 10:26 AM
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AVILLC
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Default RE: I need some technical help!

FL__PI

The dance my DF does isn't quite like that. It actualy starts to GYRATE, I guess I might say when it just starts to get off the ground.

The DF doesn't quite spin that fast around but it sort of like rotating your wrist with your hand extended out flat like you were going to salute with it.

Actually I spun the DF up yesterday and there was no motor surge, I was quite happy but I still fear it might happen once i get this thing a few feet in the air. On well, we will see soon enough.

Thanks for the reply, hope you had a Merry Christmas and may you have a wonderful New Year.

Jerry
Old 12-27-2007, 10:16 AM
  #6  
jesolins
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Default RE: I need some technical help!

@Jerry,
Did you buy the DF new or used? Have you done any other R/C flying. The DF is actually easier to fly than "most" helis. Are you trimming out the yaw turn, forward reverse, left and right, as you do the short hops with it? You need to do that before you start trying to hover above a couple of feet. Use the tie downs as Mike suggests to get started. BTW most of us are doing well with the DF due to Old Man Mike's generous help and detailed instructions Don't get carried away with any higher flight than 10 feet or so for a while until you build up flying skills; i.e., head on towards you flying, figure 8's etc.
Since you are former Military, then like me, you are used to using checklists Here is a place for you to start:

DF Safety checklist:
1. Do not fly over/near (within 20ft) people.
2. Winds over 15-20 knots make flying difficult at best.
3. Stay several feet away from walls and ceilings when flying indoors.
4. Check frame for CF cracks all mounts for fully inserted and tight fit, any loose screws and make sure motors/props are perfectly level with the DF pcb.

DF Checklist inside flight or outside cloudy day (no green LEDs showing outside):
1. TX and DF batteries fully charged.
2. TX on throttle down, then DF on (insure same channel on TX and DF) *red LED will blink faster if throttle is moved up prior to arming indicating channel lock
3. TX throttle down and to the left (turns TI off) and hold, then press DF arm switch. (The green LEDs both will be on steady after this on the DF V. The green LEDs both go off on the "experimental DF V BL" )
4. Stand behind the DF, slightly increase throttle to get props spinning, insure proper nick, roll and yaw stick response.
5. Bump throttle to 50% to get a low hover, note any trimming required to get a stable hover.
6. Fly! *keep several feet from walls and ceilings, or trees and buildings when outside as there will be a tendency for the DF to get sucked into them by the air currents it generates. The battery low indication will flash the red and green LEDs simultaneously. The DF will decrease the throttle response requiring more throttle to keep it airborne, so then land as soon as possible and recharge/replace the battery.

DF Checklist outside flight:
1. TX and DF batteries fully charged.
2. TX on throttle down, then DF on (insure same channel on TX and DF) *red LED will blink faster if throttle is moved up prior to arming indicating channel lock
3. (TI cal) Check for one or two green LEDs (preferably two green LEDs for good TI) when holding the DF from behind, front pointed to the sky, bottom to ground. If one or two green LEDs are lit, TI flight is possible. Continue holding the DF with front to sky and press the arming button for three seconds (insure that you are actually pressing it as there is no other indication other than the red light stops blinking and the tactile feel of it being depressed) *note 1: only the first press of the arming button does this TI cal, the next press will set the signal loss trims* **note 2: The green LEDs both will be on steady after this on the DF V. The green LEDs both go off on the "experimental DF V BL"** ***note 3: Do not calibrate TI over concrete/asphalt, cooler ground preferred***
4. Place the DF on level ground, front pointing away from you.
5. Stand at least 15 feet to decrease the effect of your bodies IR image, then calibrate the TI level by moving the throttle stick down and to the right.
6. Stand behind the DF slightly increase throttle to get props spinning, insure proper nick, roll and yaw stick response.
7. Bump throttle to 50% to get a low hover, note any trimming required to get a stable hover.
8. Land and press the arm button to set the loss of radio signal trims.
9. Fly! *keep several feet from walls and ceilings, or trees and buildings when outside as there will be a tendency for the DF to get sucked into them by the air currents it generates. The battery low indication will flash the red and green LEDs simultaneously. The DF will decrease the throttle response requiring more throttle to keep it airborne, so then land as soon as possible and recharge/replace the battery.

Have fun and safe flying!
Cheers,
Jim

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