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-   -   Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control? (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/draganfly-innovations-products-403/1258560-draganfly-iv-anyone-flew-control.html)

durf786 02-25-2004 04:23 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
1 Attachment(s)
I had a motor off my DF IV yesterday and when I was replacing it I had an idea - why not position the cap in the opposite direction (see photo)? There are a couple of advantages. The main one is that the cap is less likely to be damaged in a crash - not only is it away from the outer edge of the motor, but also it has some protection from the motor wires. The other advantage is that it is somewhat easier to insert the wires and the caps from the same direction. [:-]

durf786 02-25-2004 04:34 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
As anyone had any experience with damaged frame arms? Yesterday I had what looked like a minor crash, after which one of the motors was unstable - it rotated slightly on the axis of the arm. The arm seemed to be connected firmly to the center hub and the motor mount, so I assumed that the moment of inertia of the arm was reduced. I removed the arm and there was no visible damage, but when I torqued it, it seemed to twist very slightly more than a new arm. Now I really don't know if the arm is damaged or if something else was wrong. Thanks.

dragnaflyer 02-25-2004 05:24 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
If you can twist it, it's broken. Carbon tube is incredibley tough stuff, but they will fracture like anything else. If cracked, you may not be able to see it, but you would likely nitice an oscillation in that boom, or hear a "snapping" sound when you manouever the DF. For the price of Carbon tude that dia., replace it and make sure.

As for the motor mount idea, I'm not sure I follow??? (can't see all that clearly on the photo)

Captain Pugwash 02-25-2004 05:32 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Take a very good look at the center hub make sure there are no cracks in it.
check all 3 verticle risers maybe one snapped..

600burger 02-25-2004 07:20 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Howdy Everybody!!!

I'm a total newbie at everything RC and saw the DraganFly, or something like it, on Tactical to Practical on History channle and decided to see how much it would cost to get one. Unfourtunetlly i can't justify spending $700+ on a toy, no matter how cool....so i was wondering how hard it would be to build a replica draganfly. Of course it wouldn't have a camera since that is probablly the bulk of the cost here. The frame seems simple enough, 4 motors and some bread board circuts to recive and your pretty much set. The one thing im wondering is if its gyro stabalized or something tricky like that.

Another question i had is if your can still buy the old DraganFly's. I don't really want that camera, even though it is awsome, it seems to be driving up the cost (~$200). Where would one start to look for such antiquated flying anomilies?

Draganfly4u 02-26-2004 12:04 AM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Hey there 600burger,
You said you seen Tactical to Practical. Was that episode 6 or 10? and how long did they show the draganfly iv for on the show? I thinking to get the tape. If you can build a draganfly you are a smart guy! but it have seen done. Would be nice if this draganfly was cheaper then 750. But then again i could never make one.

dragnaflyer 02-26-2004 05:21 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
The DF is gyro stabilized on all three axis. I suspect you're going to find that it is a LOT tougher to build than you expect, and actually the circuit board is the most expensive component on the heli, not the camera. The DF is available without the camera, but I know I wouldn't be without it! It is quite high quality, with good video capture and transmission range.
Wayne

MNRooster 02-27-2004 05:37 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
CanadaKen,

Your idea of using styrofoam pads on the pylons sounds like a good training gear. How did you mount them? Do you have any pictures?

Thanks for your contribution.

CanadaKen 02-27-2004 09:50 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
1 Attachment(s)
MNRooster...Thanks!
I just cut out 1"x2" (x1"thick) styrofoam from some packaging. I used some silicone to keep it in place on the underside, but I had to dig out holes in the styrofoam to fit those cheap plastic white lock-nuts on the bottom.

[img][/img]

MNRooster 02-27-2004 10:15 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
CanadaKen,

Thanks for the pictures of your Draganflyer paws, I think you have a good idea. In looking around for other ideas, iI found a training gear for the Piccolo electric heli. It is carbon fiber, small and has "lightweight high-visibility balls". It can be seen here: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/piccolo-accessories.htm

Does anyone have any thoughts on this or other training gear for the Draganflyer?

CanadaKen 02-27-2004 10:22 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Some more photos.

Here's a photo (first) of that rear pylon that snapped-off. I had no choice but to glue the sucker down with some construction adhesive (a little messy but nothing else held).

Also here is a photo (second) of the upper pylon, where it attaches to the circuit board. These slots or clips keep slipping off during a hard landing. No matter how close I pull in the pylon or how tight it is in position...it usually comes off. Has anyone experienced this? Is this perhaps intented as a breakaway safety factor?

Bluefangs 02-29-2004 12:30 AM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
I received my DFIV this morning and had it up and "flying" this evening. Being a FNG, my flying consisted to skidding it around the floor to the ohhhs and ahhhhs of my adoring family, right up to the point where I flew it into the wall, immediately shearing off one of those nylon screws that hold on the blades. Since I'd visited this forum a few times before ordering one, I had enough warning to order some replacement screws. However, one thing that isn't mentioned anywhere, is how do you get the remaining screw out of the gear? I also took a lead from our conventional helicopter flying brothers and fabbed up some traning skids for the DFIV. I used 2 - 36" wooden dowels and some ping pong balls and wire tied them to the center risers. The "front" ping pong ball I painted yellow to help orient me along with the yellow blade. They worked great and kept me from tilting the DFIV too far over to one side and breaking a blade. This is a great forum for newbie like me! Thanks for all the posts....great info in here.....

dragnaflyer 02-29-2004 09:50 AM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
the circuit board is designed to pop out on hard impact. Think of it like the crush zones on your car; the bumper collapes on impact, dissipating shock and kinetic energy. Then the fenders, hood, motor mounts, etc., all accomplishing the same goal, reducing the damage overall through measured force reduction. You would much rather have a $5.00 part fail than to have something like the circuit board sustain the brunt of an impact and get damaged, since that a $300.+ part. Overall, good structural engineering practice.

As for training gear, it may help you a bit early on, providing it's light. Carbon fibre rod is fairly inexpensive, and ping-pong balls even more so. they're easy to make, very light and the will protect your rotors a bit. The only caution is that you don't want to become too reliant on them. The DF is more stable by orders of magnitude than any conventional helicopter on the market with the gyro stabilization on all three axis. Conventional helis are stabilized for yaw only. If you rely on training gear too long after your initial hover attempts, you'll get careless with your landing skills. Once that happens you start braking things by trying to land where you really shouldn't. Also, when I picke dup my DF from the factory, Zenan gave me quite a demonstration of it's ability, and one of the things he did repeatedly was chop the power from varying heights, most of the time over concrete or ashphalt. With no power being produced, the rotors stop almost immediately, and with the rotors stopped, they don't sustain damage nearly as easily as when they're spinning. I've piled mine into a tree nearly 40 feet up, and had it crash to the ground on pavement. All that broke was one rotor blade (snagged on a branch on the way down) and one motor mount which it landed on. I had chopped the power JUST before impact with the tree, and had it not been for that one lousy branch, I think I would have gotten out of the crash with a $3. repair. As it was, it was under $20., and I can't tip any of my other helis over from a foot off the ground for less than a $100. bucks!

It's amazingly stable in ground effect compared to my other conventional helis...almost lands itself without much stick input. get used to it without the skids early on; you'll be happier with the performance, and you'll improve your flying skills much more quickly
Wayne

durf786 02-29-2004 10:45 AM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Hi Bluefangs. Congratulations on your new DFIV. WARNING: They're addictive! :)

I had the same problem of a screw broken off in the gear. After several unsuccessful attempts to get it out, I decided the only option was to drill it. Of course, that could ruin the threads in the gear if done inaccurately. There are a few options. One is to use a sharp object to create a starting dimple in the center of the screw, then use a drill bit with a diameter much smaller than the diameter of the screw. If you're careful, you should be able to keep the bit in the screw. Once you have a pilot hole you can increase its size, if necessary. Another option is to buy a manual drill guide at a hardware store - they cost about $40 US. What I did was to buy a small drill press - I'd always wanted one, anyway. It's nice to have, though I haven't broken a screw in weeks (I suppose the box of 100 I bought will come in handy someday).

MNRooster 02-29-2004 10:55 AM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Wayne,

Thanks for the thoughts on training gear. My Draganflyer will come tomorrow, and I will use carbon fibre rods and ping-pong balls. I'm not sure how to secure it - maybe nylon wire ties around the pylon where the lower tray attaches?

The DFIV may be sturdy and stable, but I think if I avoid broken pylons, motor mounts etc. - I can also avoid frustration. I have friends and family who might like to try it, so the training gear would be useful for them too.

dragnaflyer 02-29-2004 12:54 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
I would just use zip ties. they're cheap, easy on and easier off, and they can also form another part of your energy absobing system in a crash. They will break at a certain point in a hard landing, which is not a bad thing. I use them a lot on conventional helis for that same reason
Wayne

Captain Pugwash 02-29-2004 01:45 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
TODAY WAS A G:D:DD DAY.......

Took my DF to the Club today absolutley no wind in the air a very calm day... ive finally got forward flight down, i can fly the little bugger round myself and do figure eights in front of myself too YESSSSS!!!!!!!!.
I found once i had commited to just flying the DF instead of worrying whether i would lose concentration or orientation it just all came naturally and i was zipping it round with no problem's!!!!!

A couple of the Heli lads had a go too and they couldnt believe how stable it was and how well it actually flies and also one of them let me hover his Mosquito nitro heli, I just lifted it off the ground and flew it as i would the DF i couldnt believe how easy it was!!!!!

We have a series of white boards set out on the heli pad at my club to do the BMFA B test on the helis and i was hovering from one board to the next with the mosquito without any trouble wotsoever, so wot you learn on the DF easily transfers over to the real helis,

Anyone who is getting frustrated with their DF's take it from me Be Patient just relax and DONT PANIC!!! it will all come in time!!!!

And above all HAVE FUN!!!!!!![8D]

nike25 02-29-2004 04:40 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Hi Guys,
Sorry for the double post but this thread seems to be the most read by Draganflyer owners! I`ve had my Draganflyer for almost two weeks now and have had fun but "very limited success" in getting it to hover for more than a few seconds without flipping over! I decided to do a " Gyro Test" by setting the Draganflyer at half throttle and then rotating the Draganflyer from front to back and then side to side. I found out something very interesting and I just don`t know if it`s supposed to be this way or if I have a Gyro problem! When I go front to back, I get a very strong feeling that the gyro is working as it is supposed to. However, when I go side to side, I don`t notice near the gyro effect as I do going front to back! Also don`t "hear" as big a difference as I do from going front to back. Is this how it`s designed to enhance handling or do I have a problem? If any of you Draganflyer`s could duplicate this test and tell me how your Draganflyer reacts, I would be forever grateful. I just need to know if it`s pilot or product error?
Thanks again,
Nike

Captain Pugwash 02-29-2004 05:17 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Nike

Have a look at the circut board make sure its seated correctly on ALL the riser tabs .. if it has popped out off one of the tabs then the board will be at an angle thus fooling the gyros into thinking that the DF is at a different angle than what it really is.

When you say you dont hear as big a difference do you mean that you dont hear the motor speed change?? when you apply left or right stick the DF should tilt in that direction same goes for forward and back. But dont forget that what you put in by way of control input you have to take it out i.e apply opposite stick to straighten it out..

hope this Helps HAVE FUN....

BTW we got the BEST thread on RC Universe going here Lets see if we can hit the magic 100 post mark chaps

nike25 02-29-2004 06:02 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Captain,
When I rotate it by hand, front to back, I feel the gyros fighting me and motor speed changing. When I move left to right, I feel little if any gyro action and motor pitch seems to stay about the same. I`m just trying to figure out if they`re all this way and I need way more practice or is this why I can`t get it to hover?
Thanks,
Nike

Captain Pugwash 02-29-2004 06:17 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
OK Nike its 11.15pm here in Liverpool and ive just been out to my shed to test my DF for you :)

I set my throttle to about 1/4 and tilted it forwards and backwards then left to right then 360' all round!! The resistance forces were the same all round if your DF isnt resisting left to right then you got problems call DFI see wot they think!!!![&:]

nike25 02-29-2004 06:25 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Captain,
A big THANK YOU! You`ve helped me tremendously! I realize I don`t have the reflexes of a fighter pilot but I did feel I was fighting something more than just a learning curve problem. It`s people like you that make this such a great hobby! Thanks again for going the "extra mile" for me!
Nike

MNRooster 02-29-2004 06:32 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
This sounds like a good pre-flight test.


ORIGINAL: Captain Pugwash

OK Nike its 11.15pm here in Liverpool and ive just been out to my shed to test my DF for you :)

I set my throttle to about 1/4 and tilted it forwards and backwards then left to right then 360' all round!! The resistance forces were the same all round if your DF isnt resisting left to right then you got problems call DFI see wot they think!!!![&:]

Captain Pugwash 02-29-2004 06:55 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 

ORIGINAL: nike25

Captain,
A big THANK YOU! You`ve helped me tremendously! It`s people like you that make this such a great hobby! Thanks again for going the "extra mile" for me!
Nike
Actually the sheds only about 20 yards at the bottom of the garden!!!! but your welcome anyways!!!!! :eek:

Bluefangs 02-29-2004 11:53 PM

RE: RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Hi Durf786,

Thanks for the suggestions on how to get that screw out! I needed to buy some drill bits anyway so this will give me an excuse to go visit the hardware store tomorrow. Maybe I can get it more than 2 inches off the floor tomorrow night!


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