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-   -   Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control? (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/draganfly-innovations-products-403/1258560-draganfly-iv-anyone-flew-control.html)

markjester 08-30-2005 02:53 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
In regard to your flour picture. I see that the gas heli is lifting something. The thing I don't understand is why the rotors don't look like they are working too hard. Normally with a heavy load the rotor pitch changes as the rotors are pulling against a heavy load. Not being one to argue, I could easily put a bag of shipping peanuts under some aircraft and show how easily the "flour" is lifted.

I like that the draganflyer is different. It gets a lot of attention when I fly it. Quite frankly I would not like to carry a gallon of nitro fuel, fueling bottle, extra glow plugs, glow starter, extra glow starter, etc when I want to fly. I grab the DF, and extra battery and the Xmitter and go. I don't like all the after flight oil smeared all over everything including leaking out of the exhaust. Gas is cool, but it takes a lot more to get it going than the DF. The DF is about precision flight. Its about being able to control the flight to the 100th of an inch. If it makes you feel better to say your heli is cheaper, stronger, etc. great, its better. Now that you won the arguement, go away. PS: I find that most people that brag about something are covering up something that is less than adequate... If I want to lift flour, i'll tie a string around my finger.

gathhill 08-30-2005 02:56 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Looks like the Joker2 would do video very nicely. Do you know what they run?

Koop 08-30-2005 02:57 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
DebianDog
You obviously can't get the hint that you are not wanted in this forum. So please, get a clue and quit wasting all our time and drive your DODGE NEON off to another forum. That's right I said NEON!!! One question though, why don't you actually buy a Draganflyer and then maybe I might actually give a damn about what you have to say.

Yours Truly,
Koop

DebianDog 08-30-2005 03:05 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Koop bite me. Luckily, you do not run this forum. The best you can do is dog out the car I own... :eek: HA! You're amusing.

yvesOttawa 08-30-2005 03:12 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Don't waste anymore time on this guy, Koop. He is the all supreme know it all and if we're very quiet, he might leave us alone. ssshhhhhh!

BTW, I called rctoys today and found out that a 520 LOR is on the way. I don't know if more resolution is the true issue but I hope they have a half decent mounting system for it. One of my co-workers is also looking into how to dampen the vibration and experiementing with a few ideas.

DebianDog 08-30-2005 03:16 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 

ORIGINAL: markjester

I like that the draganflyer is different. It gets a lot of attention when I fly it. Quite frankly I would not like to carry a gallon of nitro fuel, fueling bottle, extra glow plugs, glow starter, extra glow starter, etc when I want to fly. I grab the DF, and extra battery and the Xmitter and go. I don't like all the after flight oil smeared all over everything including leaking out of the exhaust. Gas is cool, but it takes a lot more to get it going than the DF. The DF is about precision flight. Its about being able to control the flight to the 100th of an inch. If it makes you feel better to say your heli is cheaper, stronger, etc. great, its better. Now that you won the arguement, go away. PS: I find that most people that brag about something are covering up something that is less than adequate... If I want to lift flour, i'll tie a string around my finger.
I am sure you do get attention. Almost no one has them. Why is that? Certainly not the cost. BTW: How's that orientation at 400 feet in the air with 4 blades? Can you see the blade colors clearly?

Don't like glow... then buy an electric R/C helicopter. That is going to be my next purchase. ;)

All aerial video is about smooth flight and no vibration. DF or not. I am not bragging about anything I just find it hard to believe you guys think this is a viable video platform for a "business". EPECIALLY for $1600!!! I have nothing to prove just trying to save the newbies from wasting money.

Want a cheap heli for wireless video. Get a video T-Rex with some dampeners.
http://www.video.like90.com/photos/T...imbalFront.jpg
http://www.video.like90.com/photos/T...oardCanopy.jpg
http://www.video.like90.com/photos/T...oardGimbal.jpg

markjester 08-30-2005 03:20 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Denial, sigh...

DebianDog 08-30-2005 03:27 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
1 Attachment(s)

ORIGINAL: yvesOttawa

Don't waste anymore time on this guy, Koop. He is the all supreme know it all and if we're very quiet, he might leave us alone. ssshhhhhh!
Yes... God forbid I save someone from wasting coin on a solution that is "mediocre" at best! I have been to IRCHA and I have seen what works and what does not. I see the people that are doing business and MAKING MONEY. I have seen want-to-be's. Enjoy your thread. Bye.... for now.

I will leave you with this: Here are the suggested AP platforms notice anything missing?

thecheatscalc 08-30-2005 03:56 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
what were they arguing about (asks innocent bystanders) i'm kinda lost... hey debian I like that carbon canopy it looks quite cool...

and now i shut up until i get my heli...[>:]

poorjohn6 08-30-2005 04:08 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Boy, am I sorry I put up my post as a soon-to-be owner of a DF! I had no idea that hornets would start flying along with the DF's.

There is no doubt in my mind that there are other platforms to shoot real estate videos from, most giving higher resolution. That is a given. I had taken that into consideration when I said I would be purchasing the new camera and DF when they are released in mid September.

I do know that a new version of the DF will have a different board than the current DF. That is the only reason I am waiting, no sense in having to buy a new board along with the new camera system. I talked to a different supplier who is knowledgeable in wireless video and he GUESSED that it would be in the 5G range instead of 2.4. Much better signal outdoors but not as good inside. Remember that is a guess, based on experience only.

yvesOttawa 08-30-2005 04:42 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Don't be sorry for posting John. This is how everyone learns, except DebianDog, he just likes to dictate.

As for your inside scoop on a new DF board. Are they really planning a new DF design? After just releasing the 5Ti version in January? Or do you mean the camera board? Man, these guys are pumping out new models quicker than Chrysler if this is the case. Don't say Chrysler or Neon near Dog though. His is not one of those ;)

poorjohn6 08-30-2005 05:13 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Hi, your input is most welcome!

I did compare the extreme eyecam to the one from Really Cool Toys, who is a DF dealer. The specs are the same and it is a CCD. They have two cameras, one matching DF and one to match just the eyecam.

poorjohn6 08-30-2005 05:19 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
From a conversation with a very knowledgeable DF guy to a layman (me), I understood the main board (not camera board) would be different. He told me that other than that, it is the same as current DF's. I have to assume (yes, that's dangerous) that the camera board would also be different.

I brought up the subject by saying 'I understand that DF will be bringing out a new camera system to greatly reduce the electrical interference'. He said yes, the middle of Sept. That lead to the mention of new boards.

Koop 08-30-2005 06:12 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
PoorJohn6,
Sorry you had to witness our run in with DebianDog. We had some issues in the past where we didn't quit see eye to eye. His ideas would have been welcomed, but he was determined in the beginning to tell us how rediculous the DF is as a video platform. oh well, it's water under the bridge. Welcome to the forum PoorJohn6!!!

PS: Did you ever recieve the email I sent you?

yvesOttawa 08-30-2005 07:29 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 


ORIGINAL: poorjohn6
'I understand that DF will be bringing out a new camera system to greatly reduce the electrical interference'.
That's interesting poorjohn. After analysing our own video footage we have determined the "noise" to be mechanical in nature, not electrical. We have someone with a bearings/motor drive background working with us and he concluded after shooting against a set of window panes and using the horizontal/vertical lines as a points of reference, he could tell that each video frame shifted horizontally, indicating left/right sway from the motion of the rotors. The "shifting" also increases when throttling back (changes in torque perhaps) but almost disappear when throttling up slightly.

In our opinion, the direct/bolt-on design of the articulating arm is the problem. The longer the arm, the more intense the vibrations we have found. The ideal mount needs to dampen in all three axis, mostly X-Y.

This is what we saw with the eyecam extreme. The quality is very good if you remove vibration. At 520 LOR though (the new camera?), our MiniDV wouldn't be able to record that many. Perhaps other folks have seen electrical noise with their setup near buildings. We have yet to try near commercial areas where the 2.4Ghz band is busy. Keep us up to date when you get your DF ;)

scottslc 08-30-2005 10:02 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Hey Guys, we've been through this with dog before. He just likes to eat up our board. Just drop it. Don't give him a one last post that "will really show him" He doesn't care. period. Don't mention him. don't bring up some flaw in his helo, don't put some point about the df that will turn him on our side. IT JUST WON'T WORK!!! Drop it and lets get back to having our fun.

Here's the bottom line, if you fly a df, you understand. If you don't you just can't.

Ignore him.

p.s. anyone else keep their df in the trunk of the car for moments' notice flying? I do, and I love the crowds that surround me when I bring it out.

Best, Scott

poorjohn6 08-30-2005 11:24 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
I did get an email regarding a DF for sale. The sender does not match your handle. Perhaps they are one in the same. I replied.

chriss25 08-31-2005 06:29 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
DebianDog why do you post here? All you seem to do is stir things up. If you don't like the DF then just don't buy one and leave us alone. I also have two glo helecopters and a Trex and I have fun with all of them. They all have a place but you just seem like a bitter jerk. GO SOMEWHERE ELS....Please.

threedi 08-31-2005 06:57 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Hi All on this thread apart from Debian Idiot

I have been having a look through the last few posts and see that the GIMP is back with the same (and some new) photos. Great, what a HERO. I have both 90 Nitro powered helis and Electric as well as a Draganfly. I use (through my work) DigiBeta Camcorders, DVPro and 35mm Panavision as well as HiDef Digital Cameras in a number of different configurations, being portable, wireless/remote and steadycam/tripod mounted as well as motion control (thats a computer controling the movement of a camera through every axis, the same movement every single time). I use cameras that cost 10's of 1000 of dollars on a daily basis. And do you know what, I think the Draganfly and eyecam extreme is great. Its simple, quick and easy to use. For most aplications its fine, if for instance you are going out to a web based delivery medium the resolution is more than useable, even DVD, letter boxed or picture in picture is fine, its a stable platform for video and not as intrusive as a nitro heli (and by the way I can fly helis, inverted nose in and do 3D and Chaos and hover perfectly within a foot square) So please shut up and go away, you irelevant confused fool. People have chosen the Draganfly and enjoy it, leave them alone.

thanks

DebianDog 08-31-2005 09:48 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 

ORIGINAL: threedi

you irelevant confused fool.
O.K. then, Please school me on the positive video aspects of the DF. I'm listening...

- You may start with your expert opinion of the Draganfliers ability to pan and tilt.
- Also, how the wireless downlink is superior to anything else you can buy off the shelf for < $300
- Next please explain how and it what fashion the DF holds a hover better than a larger standard 2-bladed helicopter.
- How would rate the DF'er video ability in a 10 MPH wind?
- What is the max megapixel still camera you can lift with the DF'er?
- Can you lift one of your HD $10,000 cameras with it?
- Then if you could, go into the dampening properties of the design and framework than make the DF'er a cheaper/easier/better vido platform.

Your lowly fool,

Dan

Oh... here is some scale stuff I shot at IRCHA - 24 megs - WMV format Enjoy

yvesOttawa 08-31-2005 10:19 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Debian the wannabe DFer !

Why don't you just sell your crappy Neon and TrashCAN and get yourself one? You'll have more fun! Right now you're just like an old Nun that never got any if you catch my drift.

Oh and while you're at it, get yourself some decent bandwidth. I gave up trying to download your *****ty vid.

Nighty Night!

Draganfly 08-31-2005 10:26 PM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Alright Debian
(yes guys, i'm back)

Your Questions:

Q: You may start with your expert opinion of the Draganfliers ability to pan and tilt.
A: There are two places on the circuit board for pan and tilt servos. You can ask for this anytime you send the board in to Spectrolutions for repair. We have not outfitted our DFs with these yet as we are overcoming the basic problems with it since it is a relatively "new" type of video platform.

Q: How the wireless downlink is superior to anything else you can buy off the shelf for < $300
A: You can put the video onto a computer and use much cheaper editing software on it to get very professional results. 1videoman1 had a good software program and look how his turned out. You can also get better video from being able to see what you are videoing while you are in the air.

Q: Please explain how and it what fashion the DF holds a hover better than a larger standard 2-bladed helicopter
A: I suggest you go to to www.Draganfly.com to get the answer to that question, but, the DF does have thermal intelligence to keep it in a hover at altitudes far beyond what you can see. Can your nitro do that? Don't mention the co-pilot, because if it is superior, why don't you have one? Have you also read about Mike(Spectrolutions) flying his at night with only the rotor noise to give him the general direction of his DF. Never heard of a nitro do that.

Q: Go into the dampening properties of the design and framework than make the DF'er a cheaper/easier/better vido platform.
A: As I said in Answer number 1, it is relatively new and we haven't perfected everything yet. We have made great strides though. 1videoman1 succeeded in a nearly perfect flight video. The easiest one that I have seen that cleans up most of the vibration is the velcroing of an arm to the bottom of the carbon base plate.

I hope this cleared up some of the questions you "had" Dog on the DF and will stop putting it down for your gigantic nitro beasts that are a huge pain to get ready, fly, and repair\cleanup after flights.

Your not-so-lowly fool,
Zack

scottslc 09-01-2005 12:07 AM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Question Dog, which heli model do you own and shoot video with? I watched your video and didn't see you piloting any or shooting your own aerial video. Have you done any? Can you share it with us?

Scott

DebianDog 09-01-2005 04:02 AM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 

ORIGINAL: Draganfly
Q: You may start with your expert opinion of the Draganfliers ability to pan and tilt.
A: There are two places on the circuit board for pan and tilt servos. You can ask for this anytime you send the board in to Spectrolutions for repair. We have not outfitted our DFs with these yet as we are overcoming the basic problems with it since it is a relatively "new" type of video platform.
I am sure down the road when you perfect this we can discuss it again.


ORIGINAL: Draganfly
Q: How the wireless downlink is superior to anything else you can buy off the shelf for < $300
A: You can put the video onto a computer and use much cheaper editing software on it to get very professional results. 1videoman1 had a good software program and look how his turned out. You can also get better video from being able to see what you are videoing while you are in the air.
I have seen the video's and I will have to disagree. Pixelated, un-even looking, and inconsistent "reception". Inherent problems of wireless video. I have seen as good of quality from a cell phone cam. Love to see the same footage on broadcast monitor. Having both a "real" camcorder and a downlink gives the best of both worlds.


ORIGINAL: Draganfly
Q: Please explain how and it what fashion the DF holds a hover better than a larger standard 2-bladed helicopter
A: I suggest you go to to www.Draganfly.com to get the answer to that question, but, the DF does have thermal intelligence to keep it in a hover at altitudes far beyond what you can see. Can your nitro do that? Don't mention the co-pilot, because if it is superior, why don't you have one? Have you also read about Mike(Spectrolutions) flying his at night with only the rotor noise to give him the general direction of his DF. Never heard of a nitro do that.
Why not mention it? Because -I- personally don't have one? This is not "me" vs. the DF'er world. This is me comparing what is publicly out there to the DF product. Or does everyone insist on focusing on -me- and what -I- have because that is the best you've got? Go ahead and insult the car I drive too while your at it! Let's shift focus :eek:

Yes the FMA co-pilot. I believe it uses very similar intelligence. Plus it has QUITE A FEW more little options:

FMA’s new FS8 Co-Pilot combines a failsafe receiver with flight stabilization and other leading edge technologies to give you the ultimate defense against crashes and fly-a ways. Sophisticated, yet easy to use, this 8-channel unit can actually save your aircraft.
DSR technology (Digital Signature Recognition) blocks all interference by memorizing your transmitter’s unique signal and rejecting all others. Pre-flight interference check by the receiver tells you whether it’s safe to fly.

Flight stabilization automatically levels the aircraft when you release the sticks (great for pilot training or taming that hot performer). For aerobatics, turn off stabilization from your transmitter.

True failsafe operation takes control if the signal is lost. Failsafe plus flight stabilization puts your aircraft into a predictable flight pattern — giving you time to correct the problem. No other receiver can do this. Post-flight data readout tells you how the radio system performed.

FS8 Co-Pilot also offers these performance options and features:

• FREE Viewer Software lets you see radio setup and operating details on your Windows PC
• Optional Flight Recorder (available soon) captures up to 90 minutes of radio system and aircraft orientation data for analysis in the Viewer.
• Optional Vertical Sensor enables flight stabilization to safely roll the aircraft out of inverted flight.
• Easy setup and operation: no switches to set — FS8 Co-Pilot learns from transmitter stick and control positions. Aircraft surfaces and a fuselage-mounted LED show failsafe and flight stabilization settings.
• Works with the FM PPM transmitter you already own, or your PCM transmitter set to PPM. Automatically adapts to positive shift (JR/Airtronics) or negative shift (Futaba/Hitec) signals. Available now on 72MHz; units for other bands are in development.
• Works with all aircraft configurations, including dual aileron servos, quad flaps, elevons, V-tail, complex transmitter mixes, digital servos and CCPM .
No, I don't have one yet... As I am also looking at a similar system that incorporated GPS. Like most things I tend to research before jumping in to things (as you can see if you rewind this thread back till March). I am not really sure that it is even necessary if you have a gyroscopically stabilized mount and can fly halfway decent.

I have no idea why you guys jump on me about this. You honestly believe, truly in your heart, this is the best video platform out there, for less than $3000? Don't get me wrong. Is the DF'er a nice little helicopter, you can pretty much pull it out of the box and your ready to go. But letting someone think he is going to go in to a successful "video business" with it? You should be ashamed.

I also have no clue why you insist on pushing "nasty, dirty" glows. There are TONS of nice electrics out there. As far as flying an electric at night? Please... see the night fly video from IRCHA 2005, recorded earlier this month. Looks fun doesn't it? It was! Here is a smooth flying ION. So lets drop the whole "glow" argument. There are many video professionals use electric but... it is cheaper and easier to us gas or glow.

How does the DF'er fly in a 10 MPH wind again? How many megapixel camera can up put up? What if I want to put up a "prosumer" 3 CCD video camera? I missed those answers. Oh wait... I know the answers. Doesn't. Few. Can't.

threedi 09-01-2005 10:04 AM

RE: Draganfly iv. Anyone flew it?Control?
 
Heres your reply Debian Dog.

First off those Hi-Def cameras are not $10,000 there $127,000 plus, they capture a 2K frame 25 frames a second (2K is a film post production term, the frame resolution is 2048x1556, when you lay that back to 35mm film you get cinema quality) and of course a DF cant lift one, in fact neither can a 90 Nitro heli, but we do use a range of Helis to lift modified, lighter cameras with wireless video assist. And dont tell me I dont know what Im on about because I have done this job for 18 years. Our Camera mounts have giro stabilised, fluid filled heads, that pan and tilt the camera pefectly (removing any possible high frequency vibration), there made to order and cost about $50,000, and make most of the junk you have reference for look like what it is SEMI PROFESIONAL.

I still have a DF, cos there FUN, quick and easy. Everytime I go out I dont want to have to carry tonnes of equipment.

The point here, that you seem unable to get through your 2inch thick skull, is that it dosnt matter a damn, people make choices in life, you choose to be an idiot, others choose to buy a DF with an Eyecam. They have fun, ITS A HOBBY, they dont have any problems, only you seem to have issues. People dont necessarily have $5000 to throw at a better setup, or just want something to fly, the eyecam is an extra feature, something to talk about, make better by modifying it, you know, HAVE FUN!!!!

Leave this forum alone, if somebody wants a better set up then they will go looking for one and dont need your help, unless your posting on the other relevant forums.

If your trying to impress people then do it on those other forums, unless of course your gear isnt as good as theres and you feel inadequate.

As I write this I can see some red text at the top of my page, put there by RC-Universe, it says Please resist the urge to degrade and insult etc (Im really trying!!!) Why dont you read that text Debian Dog because before you came along this forum was fine, its YOU that constantly DEGRADE's the DF and therfore INSULT's its users.

Lighten up, Grow up and SHUT UP.

Thanks


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