Motor improvement for Blade
03-27-2007, 01:58 PM
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Motor improvement for Blade
Hi all!! Does anyone have any good suggestions for a replacement brushed motor for the Esky's/ Blades that increases power any. Is I'm looking for a higher power 300 size brushed..Thanks..
03-27-2007, 02:21 PM
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RE: Motor improvement for Blade
I was thinking about buying this one
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHUM8&P=7
Looks good, but I contacted e-flite about it and the said it would probably burn the 4-in-1 up as they are not made to handle them. It would
be nice to find a cheap motor with a little more power that would work for the Blade CP. I don't think we will ever know until someone tries it out.
If you wanted to use it, you would probably need a brushed ESC to be safe, but I thought if I am going to do that why not just go brushless.
I have been wondering though, if you put a 7.5a fuse between this motor and the 4-in-1 would that protect it from drawing more than it can handle??
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXHUM8&P=7
Looks good, but I contacted e-flite about it and the said it would probably burn the 4-in-1 up as they are not made to handle them. It would
be nice to find a cheap motor with a little more power that would work for the Blade CP. I don't think we will ever know until someone tries it out.
If you wanted to use it, you would probably need a brushed ESC to be safe, but I thought if I am going to do that why not just go brushless.
I have been wondering though, if you put a 7.5a fuse between this motor and the 4-in-1 would that protect it from drawing more than it can handle??
03-27-2007, 06:02 PM
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RE: Motor improvement for Blade
fuses are more made for current spikes rather than constant current. Most fuses take longer to blow if the voltage is right, and the current is even. Case in poin, the fuse in my multimeter is 10A, but I can measure up to 23A of continuous current before the fuse blows. If it spikes though... it will blow the fuse right away. I'm sure if you had the fuse, and had a heatsink on the power mosfet you'd be fine. You would also be fine if you replaced the mosfet with a higher power one. I posted the link in the falcon 40 forum for the chip you need.... the link I posted is to mouser.com. It should be an easy search to find it.
The pulsing of the esc though might be enough to blow the fuse... but it could be risky to find out
I'm not realyl sure how you could increase the power with a bushed motor and the stock 3 or 4 in 1. You would either have to get a different brushed esc, or replace the power mosfet, and possibly a heatsink in the 3 or 4 in 1 to handle the extra current. You could also look at getting a more efficient motor (I think the stock is something like 60% is all), but I'm not sure where you would get that unless you did a custom wind.
Of course you would want to make sure to get a quick blow automotive blade type fuse =)
The pulsing of the esc though might be enough to blow the fuse... but it could be risky to find out
I'm not realyl sure how you could increase the power with a bushed motor and the stock 3 or 4 in 1. You would either have to get a different brushed esc, or replace the power mosfet, and possibly a heatsink in the 3 or 4 in 1 to handle the extra current. You could also look at getting a more efficient motor (I think the stock is something like 60% is all), but I'm not sure where you would get that unless you did a custom wind.
Of course you would want to make sure to get a quick blow automotive blade type fuse =)
03-27-2007, 06:58 PM
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RE: Motor improvement for Blade
You may want to consider upgrading to a 3 cell lipo (P# EFLB 1005, 860 mAh) and the Blade Cp Aerobatic Enhancement Kit (P# EFLH 1168) which includes symmetrical main blades, a 370 9 tooth motor, and both main and tail motor heat sinks. You will, of course, need a Lipo charger as well. A 3 cell Lipo upgrade would reduce weight and increase power slightly for improved performance and is covered in detail in the "Lithium Polymer Battery Upgrade Recommendations" and "Recommended Power System and Main Blade Configurations" section of the owner's manual.
Another option would be to sell your CP and upgrade to a CP Pro. The Pro comes with a lipo battery/DC charger setup and E-Flite also offers brushless motor and ESC upgrades for this heli as well.
I, like many of us, would like an easier and less expensive alternative to the above.
Another option would be to sell your CP and upgrade to a CP Pro. The Pro comes with a lipo battery/DC charger setup and E-Flite also offers brushless motor and ESC upgrades for this heli as well.
I, like many of us, would like an easier and less expensive alternative to the above.
03-27-2007, 08:12 PM
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RE: Motor improvement for Blade
Sunder||
Stay with the recommended motors and battery configurations... To big a motor and the 3n1 or 4n1 can't keep up with the motor and you'll end up with a heli that won't fly at all. Plus a potential of burning up the controller..
Here's information I post all the time about Motor, Pinion and battery configuration..Lengthly, but good information. If you have the Pro, go with the Park 370 Brushless for awesome power..
Dave / Choppersrule
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Articles - E-flite Blade CP Important Bulletins
E-flite Blade CP Bulletins and Performance Enhancement Tips
4-in-1 Control Unit
While the 4-in-1 control unit main motor and tail motor ESCs are readily capable of handling all in flight power loads, and even brief momentary bursts beyond these typical loads, they can be damaged if excessive amounts of current are pulled through them for an extended period of time. This period of time may vary depending on the actual motor, pinion, and battery pack used (Please see “Motor, Pinion, Heat Sink and Battery Configurations”), so it is best to keep any momentary overloads as short as possible in order to prevent damage to the 4-in-1 ESCs.
In the event of a crash, regardless of how minor or major, you MUST throttle back both the main and tail motors as quickly as possible.If a crash occurs when flying in Normal Mode (with the throttle trim increased any amount beyond the lowest setting), you will need to lower the throttle/collective stick AND throttle/collective trim immediately to prevent damage to the ESCs. If a crash occurs when flying in the Idle Up flight mode, you will need to switch back to Normal Mode while also lowering the throttle/collective stick and trim immediately to prevent damage to the ESCs.
Take your time when making adjustments to the gyro gain and tail rotor proportional mix pots. Because each model is factory flown and adjusted the settings should be very close out of the box when using the stock set up. Some minor adjustments may be required out of the box depending on the condition of the battery pack used and personal preference, and some minor adjustments will be required when installing the Aerobatic Enhancement Kit and 3-cell Li-Po packs.
You should adjust the tail rotor proportional mix so that the nose of the helicopter stays as straight as possible in hover with the rudder trim centered and no rudder input. This setting will change depending on the condition of the pack used (i.e. – fully charged vs. partially charged, Ni-MH vs. Li-Po, etc) so try to find the setting that works best throughout most of the flight. Once you have this set correctly you will be required to add a slight amount of left or right rudder trim throughout the flight to keep the nose straight (due to the always decreasing voltage of the battery pack through the flight) but the trim changes required should be minimal. When using 3-cell Li-Po packs for power, the rudder trim changes required during a flight will be less than when using 8-cell Ni-MH packs due to the more consistent discharge voltages Li-Po cells typically offer.
Tail Rotor Blade and Drive Gear
The tail rotor blade and drive gear are installed on the tail rotor shaft using a short section of silicon tubing. This allows the rotor blade and drive gear to “pop apart” in the event of a tail rotor strike or crash in order to prevent significant damage to the parts. Before each flight it is important to check the security of the silicon tubing keeper on the shaft and to ensure that the tail rotor blade and drive gear are fully seated and secured. This is especially important, even after a quick tail rotor strike or minor crash when you are most likely to forget.
As long as you have confirmed that the silicon tubing keeper, tail rotor blade and drive gear are secure before flight, you should not experience any problems with these components coming loose in the air. For those who may prefer a more secure method of mounting these components, understanding that it will not allow the parts to “pop apart” in the event of a tail rotor strike or crash, you can replace the silicon tubing keeper with a small wheel collar.
For those looking to find replacement silicon tubing keepers, they are included separately in the O-ring Set (EFLH1158) or with the replacement tail rotor drive gear and shaft set, landing skid set, and battery support set.
Main Motor, Pinion, Heat Sink, Battery and Main Blade Configurations
When using the recommended main motor, pinion, heat sink and battery configurations we have experienced very good main motor life (better than any other models in this class). We have main motors in stock and Aerobatic Enhancement Kit equipped models with more than 100 flights that continue to perform very well.
For those who may be experiencing premature main motor wear, it is likely the result of excessive current draw causing damage to the motor rather than brush wear. Excessive current draw can be the result of using the wrong main motor, pinion, heat sink and battery configurations, improper gear mesh or constant power on blade strikes and crashes (shock damage). For these reasons you MUST follow the power system configurations recommended to achieve expected motor life. These configurations are:
EFLH1110A - 370 Main Motor with 8-Tooth Pinion:
For use with 3-cell Li-Po packs and flat bottom main blades. This is the most efficient setup for long duration hovering and basic sport flying when using 3-cell Li-Po packs. Must use a heat sink (EFLH1132).
EFLH1110B - 370 Main Motor with 9-Tooth Pinion (Included with Aerobatic Enhancement Kit [EFLH1168]):
For use with 3-cell Li-Po packs and flat bottom main blades for hovering and sport flying, with less duration than when using the main motor with 8-tooth pinion. Also for use with 3-cell Li-Po packs and symmetrical main blades for sport flying and aerobatics. Must use a heat sink (EFLH1132, also included with Aerobatic Enhancement Kit).
We suggest 860–900mAh packs for all-out aerobatics with durations up to 15 minutes and 1200–1320mAh packs for basic aerobatics and longer durations up to 25 minutes or more.
EFLH1110C - 370 Main Motor with 10-Tooth Pinion (Included with the stock BCP heli right out of the box):
For use with 8-cell Ni-MH packs and flat bottom main blades for hovering and sport flying. This is the most efficient setup for long duration hovering and basic sport flying when using 8-cell Ni-MH packs. DO NOT USE THIS MOTOR AND 10-TOOTH PINION WITH 3-CELL LI-PO PACKS AS IT WILL DRAW EXCESSIVE CURRENT RESULTING IN SHORT MOTOR LIFE, EXCESSIVE RF NOISE POTENTIALLY CAUSING RADIO “GLITCHES” AND DAMAGE TO THE 4-IN-1 ON BRIEF BLADE STRIKES OR EVEN DURING FLIGHT. Use of a heat sink is optional (EFLH1132), though it can help to improve duration and motor life.
EFLH1110D - 370 Main Motor with 11-Tooth Pinion:
For use with 2-cell Li-Po packs and flat bottom main blades for hovering and sport flying. We suggest packs from 860–1320mAh. DO NOT USE THIS MOTOR AND 11-TOOTH PINION WITH 3-CELL LI-PO PACKS AS IT WILL DRAW EXCESSIVE CURRENT RESULTING IN SHORT MOTOR LIFE, EXCESSIVE RF NOISE POTENTIALLY CAUSING RADIO “GLITCHES” AND DAMAGE TO THE 4-IN-1 ON BRIEF BLADE STRIKES OR EVEN DURING FLIGHT. Use of a heat sink is optional (EFLH1132), though it can help to improve duration and motor life.
Also, we find it is best to allow the main motor to cool to near ambient temperature between flights.
Stay with the recommended motors and battery configurations... To big a motor and the 3n1 or 4n1 can't keep up with the motor and you'll end up with a heli that won't fly at all. Plus a potential of burning up the controller..
Here's information I post all the time about Motor, Pinion and battery configuration..Lengthly, but good information. If you have the Pro, go with the Park 370 Brushless for awesome power..
Dave / Choppersrule
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Articles - E-flite Blade CP Important Bulletins
E-flite Blade CP Bulletins and Performance Enhancement Tips
4-in-1 Control Unit
While the 4-in-1 control unit main motor and tail motor ESCs are readily capable of handling all in flight power loads, and even brief momentary bursts beyond these typical loads, they can be damaged if excessive amounts of current are pulled through them for an extended period of time. This period of time may vary depending on the actual motor, pinion, and battery pack used (Please see “Motor, Pinion, Heat Sink and Battery Configurations”), so it is best to keep any momentary overloads as short as possible in order to prevent damage to the 4-in-1 ESCs.
In the event of a crash, regardless of how minor or major, you MUST throttle back both the main and tail motors as quickly as possible.If a crash occurs when flying in Normal Mode (with the throttle trim increased any amount beyond the lowest setting), you will need to lower the throttle/collective stick AND throttle/collective trim immediately to prevent damage to the ESCs. If a crash occurs when flying in the Idle Up flight mode, you will need to switch back to Normal Mode while also lowering the throttle/collective stick and trim immediately to prevent damage to the ESCs.
Take your time when making adjustments to the gyro gain and tail rotor proportional mix pots. Because each model is factory flown and adjusted the settings should be very close out of the box when using the stock set up. Some minor adjustments may be required out of the box depending on the condition of the battery pack used and personal preference, and some minor adjustments will be required when installing the Aerobatic Enhancement Kit and 3-cell Li-Po packs.
You should adjust the tail rotor proportional mix so that the nose of the helicopter stays as straight as possible in hover with the rudder trim centered and no rudder input. This setting will change depending on the condition of the pack used (i.e. – fully charged vs. partially charged, Ni-MH vs. Li-Po, etc) so try to find the setting that works best throughout most of the flight. Once you have this set correctly you will be required to add a slight amount of left or right rudder trim throughout the flight to keep the nose straight (due to the always decreasing voltage of the battery pack through the flight) but the trim changes required should be minimal. When using 3-cell Li-Po packs for power, the rudder trim changes required during a flight will be less than when using 8-cell Ni-MH packs due to the more consistent discharge voltages Li-Po cells typically offer.
Tail Rotor Blade and Drive Gear
The tail rotor blade and drive gear are installed on the tail rotor shaft using a short section of silicon tubing. This allows the rotor blade and drive gear to “pop apart” in the event of a tail rotor strike or crash in order to prevent significant damage to the parts. Before each flight it is important to check the security of the silicon tubing keeper on the shaft and to ensure that the tail rotor blade and drive gear are fully seated and secured. This is especially important, even after a quick tail rotor strike or minor crash when you are most likely to forget.
As long as you have confirmed that the silicon tubing keeper, tail rotor blade and drive gear are secure before flight, you should not experience any problems with these components coming loose in the air. For those who may prefer a more secure method of mounting these components, understanding that it will not allow the parts to “pop apart” in the event of a tail rotor strike or crash, you can replace the silicon tubing keeper with a small wheel collar.
For those looking to find replacement silicon tubing keepers, they are included separately in the O-ring Set (EFLH1158) or with the replacement tail rotor drive gear and shaft set, landing skid set, and battery support set.
Main Motor, Pinion, Heat Sink, Battery and Main Blade Configurations
When using the recommended main motor, pinion, heat sink and battery configurations we have experienced very good main motor life (better than any other models in this class). We have main motors in stock and Aerobatic Enhancement Kit equipped models with more than 100 flights that continue to perform very well.
For those who may be experiencing premature main motor wear, it is likely the result of excessive current draw causing damage to the motor rather than brush wear. Excessive current draw can be the result of using the wrong main motor, pinion, heat sink and battery configurations, improper gear mesh or constant power on blade strikes and crashes (shock damage). For these reasons you MUST follow the power system configurations recommended to achieve expected motor life. These configurations are:
EFLH1110A - 370 Main Motor with 8-Tooth Pinion:
For use with 3-cell Li-Po packs and flat bottom main blades. This is the most efficient setup for long duration hovering and basic sport flying when using 3-cell Li-Po packs. Must use a heat sink (EFLH1132).
EFLH1110B - 370 Main Motor with 9-Tooth Pinion (Included with Aerobatic Enhancement Kit [EFLH1168]):
For use with 3-cell Li-Po packs and flat bottom main blades for hovering and sport flying, with less duration than when using the main motor with 8-tooth pinion. Also for use with 3-cell Li-Po packs and symmetrical main blades for sport flying and aerobatics. Must use a heat sink (EFLH1132, also included with Aerobatic Enhancement Kit).
We suggest 860–900mAh packs for all-out aerobatics with durations up to 15 minutes and 1200–1320mAh packs for basic aerobatics and longer durations up to 25 minutes or more.
EFLH1110C - 370 Main Motor with 10-Tooth Pinion (Included with the stock BCP heli right out of the box):
For use with 8-cell Ni-MH packs and flat bottom main blades for hovering and sport flying. This is the most efficient setup for long duration hovering and basic sport flying when using 8-cell Ni-MH packs. DO NOT USE THIS MOTOR AND 10-TOOTH PINION WITH 3-CELL LI-PO PACKS AS IT WILL DRAW EXCESSIVE CURRENT RESULTING IN SHORT MOTOR LIFE, EXCESSIVE RF NOISE POTENTIALLY CAUSING RADIO “GLITCHES” AND DAMAGE TO THE 4-IN-1 ON BRIEF BLADE STRIKES OR EVEN DURING FLIGHT. Use of a heat sink is optional (EFLH1132), though it can help to improve duration and motor life.
EFLH1110D - 370 Main Motor with 11-Tooth Pinion:
For use with 2-cell Li-Po packs and flat bottom main blades for hovering and sport flying. We suggest packs from 860–1320mAh. DO NOT USE THIS MOTOR AND 11-TOOTH PINION WITH 3-CELL LI-PO PACKS AS IT WILL DRAW EXCESSIVE CURRENT RESULTING IN SHORT MOTOR LIFE, EXCESSIVE RF NOISE POTENTIALLY CAUSING RADIO “GLITCHES” AND DAMAGE TO THE 4-IN-1 ON BRIEF BLADE STRIKES OR EVEN DURING FLIGHT. Use of a heat sink is optional (EFLH1132), though it can help to improve duration and motor life.
Also, we find it is best to allow the main motor to cool to near ambient temperature between flights.
ORIGINAL: sunderll
Hi all!! Does anyone have any good suggestions for a replacement brushed motor for the Esky's/ Blades that increases power any. Is I'm looking for a higher power 300 size brushed..Thanks..
Hi all!! Does anyone have any good suggestions for a replacement brushed motor for the Esky's/ Blades that increases power any. Is I'm looking for a higher power 300 size brushed..Thanks..
03-27-2007, 09:49 PM
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RE: Motor improvement for Blade
Man Choppers I just want to say thanks for all this info. I have only been in this hobby for a month and your post's have the exact info I need almost every time I have an issue. I also have a BCP and NR 3D and had a spare fireball 370 10t so I put it on the BCP and it gave it alot more head speed but the tail motor and stock gyro could not keep up with it. I also used I think Iwas told it was a 380 10t hummingbird motor and it was awesome the head speed was quite abit more but not to much. It lasted about as long as the stock ones but the rc shop did not have anymore, if they ever do I will buy again before I go brushless. Thanks again for all your great info.
