evdreamer

John,

I just started the engine up and it is still making a high pitch noise when idling and most likely would be the same when I bring the RPMs up. It used to be a low pitch, deep throaty sound when idling. I don't know what is going on with this engine.

Nick

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

I've been a busy bee, studying for that test....answered about 800 test questions so far (really)...my brain was fried yesterday, I'm taking the weekend off from that!!

I did manage a couple of flights with the 450 yesterday at lunch, but it was pretty breezy, 12 MPH with higher gusts...and was bit tricky at times...but good practice, nonetheless....

I hope to get some MCPX flights in a bit later when the wind dies, and maybe the 450 too.

JPEE,

Sorry it's so hot out there....maybe somewhere between being so hot, and being in the cold from the lack of an MCPX, you will find a comfy spot....LOL... I couldn't resist....

Hope your weather gets more reasonable soon.

As you probably already know, those wires are getting hot because they have the most resistance in the circuit, are they as heavy gauge as the battery wires?

Dave,

I have not seen those interesting photos of your slight mishaps....good for a laugh for sure!!

Nice idea on the curves, it would make it an easier transistion for someone coming from a FP heli for sure....

Nick,

Sorry your engine is still noisy.

It's hard to help diagnose it without hearing it (it might be hard WITH hearing it..lol..), but have you made sure it's not something else like a clutch bell bearing or something besides the engine?

Seem like if the bearings felt good, and you corrected that oring, it shouldn't be noisey.

Too bad you can't take it out of the heli and run it easily. If you took the starter shaft, and clutch out, and put it on the engine outside of the heli, could you start and run it? Just a thought...might make it easier to find.

Or, you could go for a little power boost...[X(]

http://helidirect.com/kme-diamond-pr...bo-p-15878.hdx

I'll bet the Velocity would come alive with that!!

Let us know how you make out...I'm curious now...

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

That is good you are taking a little break from studying.

It still makes the same noise when nothing else is spinning besides the engine.

I will try to get a video of the Velocity when it is idling either Sunday or Monday and see if you can tell what is wrong with it.

I could probably start the engine if I took the clutch out of the heli, but it is hard to align it once I take the clutch out.

I was considering getting a YS56 today, but that is a lot of money for me right now. I found out GrandRC still sells the YS50 and that is half the price of the YS56.

Nick

Aframomum

My Feedback: (10)

Hey guys,

Nick,

Sounds like you have a bit of a mystery on your hands with that engine.

You intially said it was having a suction sound which prompted you to do the first tear down right? But after the teardown it is now doing the high pitch squeel? Is the suction sound gone, or can't you hear it over the squeel? Might be a bearing afterall?

As Glenn pointed out you may want to first check to see if it the engine and not something in the clutch so you may have to put it on a stand (engine only w/ a prop) just to rule that out. At least that way you'll definitely know it is something in the engine.

How are the LHS's in your area...any of them capable of doing engine troubleshooting and/or bearing replacement...or local guys at your field? Maybe there is a plane or heli guy that is good at replacing bearings? Just tossing out some idea's. You've had this engine for what...2 years? A bit early to be looking into replacements...esp since you just got a replacement muffler.

BTW...you and JPEE stick together fast as the last no-mcpx club rebels.

JPEE,

Sounds like you just needed to drop the pinion to keep things cool on your 600, guess the 11T was a bit too much. Also, have you double checked the pitch of your blades to see if they are doing 9? That may also be were some of the load is coming from.

Glad to hear you were able to get some nice flights in with both the 500 and 600...and I hope things cool down a bit for you out there...at least to keep the bugs away. [:'(]

So...what other tasty tidbits can we coax out of dear Dave? Truely funny pics, esp the one with the Old Milwakee can...no age picking here but my grandfather used to drink that exclusively!

Glenn,

Your going to have no problems with that test of yours...my gosh 800 questions...and just for study...yeah, you should have no worries.

Nice to hear you took a break to get some flying in...therapeutic isn't it? At least your 450 is getting some airtime...my 550 has been sitting since my last video...all thanks to my mcpx. I also got 2 more batteries Friday so more flying time. Hope the wind settles down for you...anything going on with the Moose Lodge field or is all quiet (I remember that picture of the survey posts you took, they did look old though)?

I did get some flying in yesterday morning...basically practicing on flipping the little bird...no true blowouts so it was a nice day.

Mark

JPEE

Hi Genn, Very Cute, a little play on words hey lmao..............


Nick, sorry to hear that pesky sound is there but yet.... a bit different. That's godda tick ya off.


Mark, no I have no re-checked pitch but I will on our upcoming Wed fly day. What I can't understand is why Align is using a smaller gage wire on thier ESC than

the battery your your going to use and connect to it to fly the heli? Now that I am down in RPM with the pinion there is no big deal. However, I had "considered" re-wring the ESC

from and old set of 6S battery leads I keep on hand, but again now there is no need.

Happy Mothers Day to those that is applies to.

John

choppersrule

Hi Fellas,

I'll be away for awhile, I was informed today that my father has passed away.

He was 91 years old, born December 3, 1919. The attached picture was taken in Sept. of 2009.

My dad is on the left, then my oldest daughter Leslie, then me on the far right. The youngster in front of my dad is Katy, Leslie's daughter / my granddaughter.

God Bless,

Dave

rotarydoc

Dave,

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss....

My condolences go out to you and your family.

My dad is getting up there as well, and I worry a lot myself...

God Bless you and the family...

Glenn

JPEE

Dear Dave,

There are no words that I can say to make you feel better. I can only say, you Liz and the rest of the family have our prayers. I lost my dad in 94 at age 80 so I

fully understand the hardships you'll be facing in the next few days and months ahead. But with time, family support, talking about the good times, this hurt shall pass.

God bless you and yours Dave.

John

jroo

Hi all.

Well, I got my mcpx in on thursday, but didn't get to fly. I wanted to get a case for my 250 and mcpx, so I headed to Cabelas which is about 5 miles from my house. I took my 5 yr old son, and we ended up staying for about an hour, just looking around. They had a pistol case for $29. It was plastic and had the pick-n-pluck foam, but I passed on getting it. We then went to Wal-Mart, and they had the exact same one for $10. I passed on that too. By the time we got home it was late, and I was just too tired to program my TX to fly the mcpx.

I ended up getting a larger aluminum sided case from Harbor Freight. It's 17" long and wide enough to fit both 250 and MCPX. Unfortunately, it does not have any foam. I don't know. I may actually take it back and get a different one from say Cabelas. I have an idea, after I buy the foam, it's going to come close to the price of a nice pistol case from Cabelas.

Now for the maiden of the MCPX. I went out of town from Thursday-Sunday, and I took it along. My first flight was in a smaller back yard early in the morning, so no real FFF was possible. There was no wind at all which was nice. This is a cool little heli. I have to keep reminding myself it is CP and not fixed-pitch. I suppose just seeing another tiny heli like my old MCX, 120SR, etc makes me subconsciously feel it should be stable.

After the first battery I immediately did the canopy grommet mod on the aileron and pitch servos. This makes a world of difference.

Not 30 seconds into the flight I attempted a back flip..haha. Mind you, I've never attempted this on my 250, 450. It just felt good to throw caution to the wind at let loose. Well, it 'almost' made it. I bet if I had another 3ft in starting altitude i would have stuck it. Either way, i crashed, and only damage was a crinkled canopy that I just popped out. It's surprisingly resilient. In 4 battery packs I crashed 5 times and never broke anything. I never lost a link either.

My last crash though resulted in some vibration at higher RPM's. At eye level I could see the tracking was off and i was hearing some distortion in the rotor noise. I took apart the head thinking that I bend the spindle, but that was not it. I then saw that the main gear had just backed down about 1mm and was causing some free play between it and the sleeve that screws into the shaft under the swash. I got all that taken care of and its back to flying again.

While the heli was all apart I did the super-glue mod to the forks that keep the main blade linkages from getting lost. Ran one battery pack in the office and everything seems fine.

Overall, a really cool heli. The flybarless thing is pretty impressive; it just magically stabilizes itself to a hover.

Aframomum

My Feedback: (10)

My sincerest sympathies for your loss Dave.

It's never easy but your father got to see his son grow up, got to see his granddaughter grow up and have children of her own, and got to get to know his great grand-daughter. That must have been very satisfying for him.

We'll be here when you are ready to come back.

Mark

jroo

fyi.

I've changed my nick to jroo.

James

JPEE

JROO,

We noticed, you are a new man with a new handle, "born a again" as they say.

It is 9:36 a.m. and I am on my way for my second fly session today. I met a guy at the Park at 5:45 a.m. and flew a 500 and 600 pack. The weather is perfect here today!

So now my fly buddy and I leaving for the field for a fun day, YAHOO!

I am gonna try and get to him to buddy box again and make that turn. He can fly left to right and turn and then come back left nose. But then he freezes when he reaches his

rightside and just swings the heli back slowly and by mid flight in front of himself the heli is headed right. We tried the buudy box last week but the place was jumping and he

was edgey. I had to take it from him and land. I sincerely hope I can get him past this block to he can fly out and about with total free flight.


Glenn,

I flew with this guy as I said while you were in bed ( not counting the time change ) and I took the 500 so far out he was crapping his pants! Then I took up the 600 and took so

far out he is yelling BRING IT BACK, BRING IT BACK! I told him I am the distance king here on the forum LMAO. I said the other guys can fly backwards and do real well inverted but no one

can touch my distance flght. BTW I just found by accident this morning that I have to set the pinion and main gear tooth count on our Iphone heli RPM meter. NOW I should get some real numbers.

See ya all.

evdreamer

Mark,

I have had the engine for a year and a half. It has had a new piston, piston ring, rear bearing, and recently the new oring. I uploaded a video to vimeo and I am waiting for it to finish. It took longer than I planned to get the video up because I had a hard time finding the cables that were out in the open. Then I forgot how to use the program to download the video to my computer.

Dave,

Sorry about your father.

James,

That is good you are enjoying the mCP x.

John,

Have fun flying again. Hope it is a little cooler outside.

Nick

rotarydoc

Hey guys,

Sitting here at work looking at 4 walls....

I got some decent time in on the MCPX on Sunday, flew all 6 packs, and had a few crashes, but nothing I couldn't fix right there in the field! I found a good place to practice at the horse track, it's got some really nice deep grass, which helps cushion those mishaps quite a bit...

I just got back from flying at the Moose lodge. The best time to fly there is lunch, there is no one around, I think most people are at work, and I get the field to myself. Got a couple of packs in with the 450... Sunday was a different story, I flew one pack at there, and some kids on a dirt bike (2 stroke, screamin' at about 12,000 RPM) came and went zipping up and down the side of the field...I had just finished one pack, and I then packed up...not wanting to be around in case somebody called the cops on the dirt bike...

I tried the hot glue mod on the link guides, and it sort of worked, looked like it saved one link one time, but then the next crash it broke the glue off, but the link stayed...so I guess it's worth doing. I may try the same thing with a dab of RTV, which should adhere better to the guide.

I charged all 6 batteries on the multi charger board, and that was cool....all charged and ready to go in like 20 minutes!

The canopy grommet mod seems to work well. My MCPX flies great...I can flip it at will...even past the halfway point on the battery, but have to be a bit more careful. The more practice I get, the easier it is to figure out what I can get away with and what I can't...

The 450 is flying great, and the batteries are actually holding up well with shorter, 5 minute flights, they are starting to puff a slight bit...

I'm going to try to get another 6 flights on the MCPX tonight...addictive little booger!!

JPEE,

Sounds like quite a flying day...and yeah, you are the distance king...something I have never attempted...nor would I, even if I had the space....you can lay claim to that honor!!

Mark,

Yeah, flying is a great break from studying that book on my tests....I am pretty much done studying, I don't want to burn out prior to the test itself... It's Thursday night, so I should be good.

Cool on the 2 more packs, did you just get 2 more Eflite batteries? I find them sufficient, I'm sure the 240's have a tad more flight time, and maybe a bit more punch, but at the cost of a special landing gear, and added weight....

I checked my LHS, and no MCPX's in stock, was just curious, they must have sold all they got. Parts are a bit scarce too...not a whole lot in stock. I think it'll get better before too long. I see where some of the guys on HF are actually debating whether to buy a bunch of extra parts vs. another BNF for parts....one guy added it up, and it would cost over $300 to build an MCPX from parts...[X(]

Nick,

I got to thinking about your noise, so I got out the SDX and took a look... On it, the starter shaft turns all the time with the engine, and therefore has 2 bearings (at least) on the starter shaft and clutch that would possibly make noise all the time the engine was running if they were bad...
There is a bearing in the clutch bell, and one or 2 on the starter shaft that spin any time the engine runs...just some food for thought, I guess the Velocity is set up differently? Does it have a one way bearing in the starter adapter/shaft?


Welcome JROO....

Much easier to spell, I must say!!!


Glenn

Aframomum

My Feedback: (10)

Hey everyone,

Glenn, like you, I too am at work but only looking at 3 walls and 1 plexiglass partition.

Jreure...no, Jhoo...umm, wait...JROO...uggh, this is confusing. Glad you got some flights in on your mcpx.

I learned a bitter lesson this morning...bring extra parts when flying the mcpx...yep, lost the stickin link (no, I didn't do the glue/sealant over the fork ) when trying tail-in inverted...and low. 1 minute into my first battery and that was it...didn't bring any extra links so that was the end of my flying session. Won't make that mistake again. I was also at a new field I found near my sons school so running home quickly wasn't an option.

Well, gotta get back to work now []

Mark

evdreamer

Glenn,

That is cool you got a lot of flights in with the mCP x.

My Velocity has a one bearing for the starter shaft, so it stops spinning once the engine is running.

Here is the link to the video of my engine, but it still says it is processing it since 1pm. Hopefully it will work sometime tonight.
http://vimeo.com/23543420

Nick

JPEE

Hi Guys,

Glenn,
Good news on your 6 flights. Cool that the crashes did not amount to much in the way of damage. Dang kids and their mini bike anyway, driving off the older RC guys lol. Glad to hear your parallel

charging strip worked as hoped. Did you get in your 6 night flights tonight?


Nick,
I hope Glenn's idea's on the suggested bearing reviews might help you, this has to be frustrating for you I can only imagine. I noticed the clutch or whatever is trying to turn as you idle, is that normal?

It is like that bearing might be dragging or the clutch is dragging a bit and that silver fan thingie . Your video was cool.

As side note Nick, you crack me up! You took that whole video and made sure to let your face sneak in there. We three have been together for what three years plus now and I have never seen your face.

Me, I am old gray haired guy you have seen from to time in my videos.


Mark,
What you were saying about taking extra parts, ya godda do it! We/I don't carry to much in parts with us because we carry at least three heli's and an airplane when we go out. But I do carry every heli tool

I own with me. The main reason is, so I can do a thorough flight check and address anything I might find. I try to the do it at home before I leave home but often I cannot. Safety first, I have had my share of

close calls, the last being those blades grips that were coming off. Hearing you describe your "area" consisting of three walls and a plexi-glass partition sounds like visiting day at the County Jail.....lol.

PLEASE, no contact with the inmates LMAO.


Jroo,
I hope your day was good for you whatever you were doing.


John,
Well John met his friend Bob at the filed for the second shift of flying today. The air was clear and it was just barely 70 but gorgeous! There were numerous guys there, about 5 so I only flew my Apprentice

for one pack, and my 600 again for a pack. I was good with that. There were several guys I hadn't seen for sometime so chewing the fat was fun. Tomorrow, well it is supposed to be even better, then rain

this weekend and cooler weather for a time. Maybe this upcoming weather is what John needs to get his 600-1 back together.


JPEE

jroo

Hey all.

Not much flying here. I flew my mcpx in my living room last night. It's just been a little too windy outside. Plus, I'm having an irrigation system installed in my front and back lawn, so it's a bit of a mess; trenches everywhere....

rotarydoc

JPEE,

Yeah, I got another 6 flights in last night...fun as always, I don't regret the MCPX one bit, that is for sure!

Sounds like the weather is really cooperating well for you out there, at least until the weekend...which is kinda the same here, it's just been gorgeous, 65 and sunny here...

Hope you have a great flying day tomorrow as well.

Nick,

That is an interesting noise, I was expecting a bit different noise, hope I am hearing what you are there in person...I was kinda expecting a high pitched squeel or squeek...but I think I'm hearing more of a clatter or rattle noise when it's idling, and it seems a bit more pronounced when you lowered the idle speed.

I'm not sure how well you inspected the lower connecting rod bushing and crank pin when you had it apart, but it might be worth another look, and it's easy enough to do...just remove the backplate, (I can do this with the engine in the heli on the SDX, not sure if you have a bottom plate in the way or not) and then take a really close look at the lower connecting rod bushing, there should be a bronze bushing on the inner diameter of the lower end connecting rod hole, that goes on the crank pin.

Once you see it, and can watch it closely, move the crankshaft (hopefully you can turn it with the cooling fan or something) back and forth ever so slightly...and watch for any play between the bronze bushing and the pin on the crankshaft it is attached to. There should only be a very tiny amount of clearance here, about .001 to .002 or so....if the bushing is oblong (egg shaped) or has alot of clearance/play, that is going to be your noise.

I would check that next, since it should be easy to do. If you don't find anything there, the next thing that comes to mind is to make sure something isn't embedded in the top of the piston, hitting the cylinder head while it's running...not likely, but possible.

The only other thing that comes to mind (and it is very remote) is a loose flywheel/fan assembly, but you probably would have noticed that by now.

It should be relatively easy (in theory at least!) to track this noise down....you only have 3 basic moving parts, the piston, the rod, and the crankshaft/bearings, and you said you felt the bearings were OK from what you saw.

I would think that having a one-way bearing on the starter shaft should eliminate that (with maybe the exception of the one-way bearing itself?), but this sounds to me more like something internal in the engine.

I hope you can find something, that is the list of things I would check, and the order I would check them.

Oh, something else I noticed, probably nothing, but there seems to be a total lack of smoke from the exhaust while it's running, but that could be the type of oil in your fuel, some brands don't put out as much smoke (my Cool Power smokes a lot)....probably nothing to worry about if it's running well besides the noise.

Let me know what ya find!

Glenn

evdreamer

John,

That is great you are having nice weather. It was in the triple digits here yesterday and now it is raining pretty good.

Glenn,

I was kind of thinking about the connecting rod yesterday. I didn't know if this was normal or not, but when I was spinning it by hand it was harder to spin at TDC and BDC and super easy to spin in between. I had the glow plug out, so there wasn't as much compression at TDC. Maybe this is what you might have been thinking about when it is oblong shaped? If so, is that normal wear or maybe caused by running lean? I know when I was first learning about this engine I had it quite lean. When it was at BDC I could see fuel kind of bubbling at the connecting rod and crankpin.

I took the cylinder head off before and there is nothing abnormal in there.

I will double check the fan assembly if it is loose.

My RotorRage fuel doesn't smoke that much when it is idling. When I bring the RPMs up it will start to smoke.

Thanks for the ideas. I am going to take the piston and connecting rod assembly out, since it isn't that hard. Then I will double check my bearings, since it will be easier. Then I will probably end up getting a new connecting rod.

Nick

evdreamer

Glenn,

There is a little play between the connecting rod and the crankpin. Once I got that assembly out it was very easy to tell my bearings are already notchy.

Nick

rotarydoc

Nick,

You are welcome for the ideas, I hope we can get to the bottom of it.

Something sounds very wrong about it being harder to spin over at TDC and BDC, I wonder if you may also have a bent rod? I would definitely look at that rod and piston real close again.

Usually any abnormal wear on that bushing is lubrication related. They normally live a pretty long life.

Any time a glow engine runs lean, two bad things happen, they tend to overheat, and get very hot, and with less fuel going in, you have less lubrication (oil in the fuel) for the critcal parts. The lower connecting rod bushing is a high wear area of any glow engine, since it's not really a true bearing, but a bushing.

These little engines can be pretty durable, but at the same time delicate, it only takes one good lean run to burn one up.

Hopefully when you take it apart, you'll be able to see something that is not quite right. But that resistance at the top and bottom of the piston travel would be something to research the cause of. It may not be easy to see, since it doesn't take much to cause problems.

I figured the fuel you use may be a lot less smokey than the Cool Power fuel.

Let me know what ya find out when you take it apart...

Glenn

rotarydoc

Nick,

Do you think the bearings were why you were feeling resistance at TDC/BDC?

There should be very little play in the rod/crankpin. You have to have some, for expansion and oil to be able to get in there, but it should not have very much play at all. It's kind of a judgement call, there is no way that I know of to measure it, or where to find any specs.

It may be time for a rod and new crank bearings.

You were saying the crank bearings aren't that old though, right?

Glenn

evdreamer

Glenn,

The bearings might have been the cause of the resistance at TDC and BDC.

The rear bearing only has a gallon and a half on it, but I have never replaced the front bearing. I won't know if it is only the front bearing or both until I take out the crankshaft. I didn't know RC-bearings had bearings for engines until I checked out Helifreak. I have been getting ripped off with YS bearings. The front and rear bearing combo at RC-bearings was cheaper than the YS rear bearing. I ordered two of those bearing combos and a new connecting rod. Hopefully I will have a good running engine after this.

Nick

rotarydoc

Nick,

Yeah, if those bearings are the least bit rough, or binding, it's time for new ones. Maybe it's actually the front one this time, but if you are getting kits, I'd go ahead and replace both while you are doing it, along with the rod.

O.S. parts are pretty expensive too. Both YS and OS engines are Made in Japan, which usually means $$$$$$$[X(]

Let's hope the RC bearings ones are as good quality as the YS, but it sounds like you're not getting much life from the YS ones, so it may be an improvment.

Let's see how it feels when you get the new stuff in it. It should feel silky smooth with the new bearings and rod. It has to, to stay together at 18,000~20,000 RPM's.

Hard to say why those bearings failed so quick (or maybe it's the original front one that's causing it) but it could have had a lean run, or taken in some dirt.

I still don't like the idea that we don't run air filters on RC aircraft. I know we aren't running in the dirt like RC cars, but neither do real cars, and you should see some of the air filters I take out at work...[X(]

Hope the new parts don't take too long.

Glenn