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Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

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Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

Old 01-16-2006, 11:30 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

Wow...what a shame! I had only one brief test flight on my Sportser in the stock configuration. The set-up to me looked like a traine wreck waiting to happen. It will NOT ROG from grass...period. I immediately went to the 600G set-up and was not happy even with static testing. I trashed everything and went to a Himax brushless with planitary gearbox, LiPo's and CC ESC. Swinging an 11X7 prop this set-up gets it done with 7-10 min flight tmes and plenty of power to fully exploit the airframe. I should have saved the time and expense of the 600G step and went straight to the brushless-LiPo set-up.

MotoCalc predicted acurately, all of my findings. Before I even bought the SS EP, MotoCalc predicted that the stock set-up would be marginal and the 600G not a whole lot better. I then used MotoCalc to engineer the current set-up:


MotOpinion - Great Planes SS EP Maxx HA2825-3643
1383ft above Sea Level, 29.92inHg, 70°F

Motor: HiMaxx HA2825-3643; 3600rpm/V; 1.4A no-load; 0.025 Ohms.
Battery: GP LiPo; 3 series x 2 parallel cells; 1500mAh @ 3.7V; 0.022 Ohms/cell.
Speed Control: Castle Creations Phoenix 35; 0.0045 Ohms; High rate.
Drive System: 11x7in Prop w/4.28:1 Plastic Planetary; 11x7 (Pconst=1.31; Tconst=0.936) geared 4.28:1 (Eff=90%).
Airframe: Great Planes SS EP; 383sq.in; 44.3oz; 16.7oz/sq.ft; Cd=0.056; Cl=0.46; Clopt=0.63; Clmax=1.11.
Stats: 104 W/lb in; 82 W/lb out; 20mph stall; 27mph opt @ 60% (43:22, 80°F); 32mph level @ 69% (33:01, 82°F); 1340ft/min @ 34°; -265ft/min @ -6.4°.

Power System Notes:

The full-throttle motor current at the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed (27.1A) falls between the motor's maximum efficiency current (22.9A) and its current at theoretical maximum output (187.3A), thus making effective use of the motor.

Aerodynamic Notes:

The static pitch speed (51mph) is within the range of approximately 2.5 to 3 times the model's stall speed (20mph), which is considered ideal for good performance.
With a wing loading of 16.7oz/sq.ft, a model of this size will have flying characteristics suited to the intermediate pilot, for use in calm to moderate wind conditions.
The static thrust (41.4oz) to weight (44.3oz) ratio is 0.93:1, which will result in very short take-off runs, no difficulty taking off from grass surfaces (assuming sufficiently large wheels), and steep climb-outs.
At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (24.2oz) to weight (44.3oz) ratio is 0.55:1, which will give steep climbs and excellent acceleration. This model should be able to do consecutive loops, and has sufficient in-flight thrust for almost any aerobatic maneuver.

General Notes:

This analysis is based on calculations that take motor heating effects into account.



This whole exercise has taught me one thing.....don't trust manufacturer's claims and take reviews and opinions with a grain of salt. Do your own engineering and testing. I can't see how anyone could say that the stock set-up or the 600G set-up is satisfactory. Cheap...yes. If you can be satisfied with hand launch (or have a hard surface field) and anemic performance.

The airframe though is a beaut! Other than the gum band hatch retainers (quickly fixed with a few magnets) the engineering, fit and finsih and performance is great. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, a great value. GP should offer the airframe only at a reduced cost or offer a properly engineered power system as an upgrade.
Old 01-17-2006, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

priech,

im really suprised to hear that, i have not had any trouble with my SSEP power system, i did use a different battery and i used bigger wheels went to 2 3/4 and no wheel pants (makes a big difference) but otherwise it is stock and takes off from grass fields with no problem at all.

i am using SCR2400 nicads and GP3300 nimhs both 7 cell packs and it ROGrass and flights of about 8 or 9 minutes are the norm .

if the grass your flying from is to tall then i could see it not ROG but otherwise it should. at the 2 clubs i belong to one has very short grass and the other, well lets say its not always mowed when i get there but the SSEP still takes off from it . granted this plane is no speed demon in the stock form but it does fly well.

so if you havent tried changing the wheels to a bigger set try that and see if it helps.


bassman
Old 01-17-2006, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

I was able to take off from grass with the stock wheels by giving full up elevator to get it started. I've decided to upgrade to a Medusa brushless with a CC45 ESC and a 3700mah lipo set up. I'm still waiting for the correct clamshell for the 28mm inrunner to be shipped.
Old 01-17-2006, 01:50 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

David

It's amazing how similar my plane looked compared to the one in your picture.

I ordered a new plane and I think I'm going to take your advice on the ESC. Can't afford another shut down and I'd really like to use the S600GD with the 10x7 prop. It really performed well until the shutdown.

I never had any problem with he stock set up.

Denzil
Old 01-30-2006, 12:25 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

Anyone familiar with Hitec's Lasar 4 4-channel radio, it comes with 3 HS-81 servos. I was thinking of using a Futaba 4 channel radio for my Super Sporster EP but, to get the Hitec HS-81 micro servos I want I have to purchase 3 of them seperately (approx $52.00 from Tower) plus $100.00 for the Futaba radio. The Hitec radio I mentioned with servos is $129.99, not to mention the chrystal for the receiver is 3 bucks cheeper with the Hitec. The only thing is I wont have the use of a buddy box since my club uses Futaba and JR radios. Any related experiences with the Hitec Lasar 4 would be appreciated
Old 02-01-2006, 03:23 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

I have used the Hitec Laser 4 for a couple of years, with several planes, with no problems. I'm not any kinf of expert and have not had experince with Futaba so I cannot compare the two. I can recommend the HS 81 for a Super Sportster. They fit much better than the Hobbico servos I bought with my plane although the Hobbico's function very well. Its strictly a matter of case size and trimming required to make them fit.

Hope this helps.

Denzil
Old 03-03-2006, 12:13 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

I have done as much research and chatting as I can to find out if this plane is as good as it looks. I even wrote emailed Tom Hunt who wrote on article on the Mini Super Sportster in this months issue of Model Aviation. Overall there is more good then bad to say about the plane. One potential issue is the 7 cell stock battery being a little under powered and short on flight time. Does anyone know of a larger off the shelf battery that can be used or if there is a Li Po set up that will work with the Super Sportster EP in the stock configuration
Thanks
Ron
Old 03-03-2006, 02:19 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

marc,

im as for the plane itself it flies very nice , ROG etc... now for the battery packs i have been using SCR 2400 nicad 7 cell and GP3300 nimh and my flights have been in the 7to 8 minutes for the 2400's and 9 to 10 with 3300's thats with the packs coming right off the charger after a brief cooldown.

for li-poly's i bought some kokam 2s2p 4000 mah packs when FMA had them on sale and Greg covey told me they would work well for this plane as they are lighter and hold the voltage better.

hope this helps you a little and remeber im no pro just starting to get into li-poly's so get some others opinions to



bassman
Old 03-03-2006, 03:10 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

Thanks much for your help bassman,
where were you able to find those SCR 2400 nicad 7 cell and GP3300 nimh batteries, were they direct drop-ins or
did you have to do any modifications. With regard to the li-poly's you mentioned, was that still with using
the stock motor and speed control or did you go to a brushless. Last question, who is FMA??
Thanks again

Ron
Old 03-03-2006, 03:41 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

I've heard that the stock ESC will not handle lipos. The stock power is adequate, but there is a very informative thread on rc groups about upgrades for this fine bird. A lot of people have been happy with the stock power and upgraded batteries. Quite a few have had great success with other brushed motor systems as well. I received a brushless/lipo set up for Christmas, still waiting on the weather here in Ohio before I try it out.

Hope that helps.
Brian
Old 03-03-2006, 05:18 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

marc,

yes the battery's drop right in BUT the plane will be very nose heavy, to keep the plane from being to nose heavy when i put it together i moved the servos back and also made a ramp so to speak, to have the back of the battery move up towards the canopy to make sure i was clear of the servos and connecting rods so the battery could be moved ack a little more than stock.
by the way for price i would say go with NIMH battery packs if you are not sure about li-po's also check out tower they have some good deals on nimh's also

link to SCR 2400 batterys= http://radicalrc.secure-mall.com/sho...9e062048e5dd14

now for the ESC i used the stock for awhile then i wanted to try an 8 cell pack so i went with a medusa 40 amp ESC thats also li-poly friendly. i am waiting for it to warm up here and for the snow to melt so i can get out to our field and fly. i also have a new spitfire i need to maiden so cant wait.

marc also i am still using the stock motor without any problems it seems to be a great little motor granted it doesnt make this plane a speed demon but it flies it well enough that i have fun and thats all that counts.

here is a link to FMA = http://fmadirect.com/

good luck and have fun. hope ive helped a little bit.


bassman
Old 03-07-2006, 10:03 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

Hi bassmanh:

Have you flown the model with 2s2p Kokam lipos, and if so, what sort of performance did you get?
Old 03-07-2006, 10:46 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

john,

no i havent been able to try them out yet, we just got 5 more inches of snow and now the temps are supposed to get into the 40's which will make the field a wet sloppy mess for awhile. so it looks like i will have to wait to see how they work. i put them in the plane and they fit very nicely and the plane balances perfect with the 2s2p packs, and its about 4 ounces lighter with them . so i think they will work very well will be doing some static testing with the kokams in the next day or 2 and will post what i find out for AMPS and watts.


by the way if you like the super sportster you may like this new world models spitfire i just finished putting together . $99.00 with a brushless motor. here is a picture of it.



bassman
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Old 03-07-2006, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

bassman:

I'm interested in seeing your test results. I have ordered several 2s1p and 3s1p 2100mah kokam lipos for other aircraft and it would be great if I could use them in the SSEP. Thanks for the tip regarding the spitfire. It's a nice looking model and that it is available with both a brushed or brushless motor is a great idea. Like you. I'm up to my knees in snow so I'll have to wait for another month or so before I can get back to flying.
Old 03-12-2006, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

john,

well i finally got the li-pos charged up and did a quick static run , WOT i was getting 33 amps and 239 watts according to my astro flight watt meter. then it settled down and was at 31 amps and about 220 watts. thats with using a APC 12X10 Eprop and the 2s2p 4000 mah kokams.

thats pretty close to what i was getting with the 7 cell packs of GP3300 nimh's with ALOT less weight. the GP3300's weigh in at 1.07 lbs and the 2s2p kokam 4000 mah weigh in at 9.6 oz's . now i cant wait to fly this plane also the super sportster now balances perfect with the li-po's where the GP3300's made it very nose heavy.

NOW, can anyone tell me what kind of flight times to expect from these packs ????

now with all that said these are the numbers i got so i hope there close to what some one else has gotten or will get



bassman
Old 03-15-2006, 05:19 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

Hi Bassman

What is the C rating of your Lipos?
Old 03-15-2006, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

john,

i think if i remember right there either 12 or 15 C i know these packs are rated to about 60 amps(unfortunatley i cant get them anymore) , i am going to use 2 of these 2s2p packs in series with my axi 4120/14 to power my .46 AT-6 texan.

these are my first li-po's so i went right to Greg covey for all the info i could get from him about them


bassman
Old 03-16-2006, 07:44 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

Hi bassman

Using one 2s2p 4000mah pack should give you a SSEP flight duration of approximately 8 minutes at a full throttle current of 31 amps.
Old 05-10-2006, 08:53 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

OK, I've had a Super Sportster for a while now, its completely stock though. It does get off the ground on rough dirt runway, and I've seen it run off runway and still manage to get off ground in grass. While in the air it looks good, but it won't climb very high at all (elevator seems to only function as a speed brake for me) and has only managed to perform a loop once on the second flight. Not quite satisfactory for a sport airplane.

So, I'm not one to spend too much, or much at all for that matter. I'd like to get the best possible performance for the lowest price. So, what is the final verdict for this less expensive upgrade? Results seem to be mixed here. I'll add that I don't always want vertical 3d-like performance as some people seem to need in every plane, just enough to climb decently and maybe do a loop or two.

Is this the system to do it with?
Old 05-14-2006, 10:31 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

Hi there guys......I am back.....

I am going to update you all with the latest on what I have been up to with the very same Great PLanes Super Sportster EP that flew Stock then, flew with the Great Planes S-600GD power system (EPIC modified Brushed Motor) and now the Kyosho Endoplasma 16-turn motor in the Great Planes GD-600 Gearbox swinging the tiny APC "Sport" 9 X 8 propeller and APEX "or" Pro-Lite Thundre Power 4200mAH (2100 cells) 15C, 3S2P, Li-POLYs.

First, I came to the conclusion after many bench testing and flight testing that I had the Endoplasma 16-turn timed too advanced for reverse timing and consequently the AMP draw was just too much with the 3S Li-POLYs even using the smaller 9 x 8 propeller while in the 3.8:1 ratio gearing. I went ahead and completely backed off the timing to just two degress advanced and the AMP draw is no more than 29 AMPs at wide opena and I assure you the model is a DEMONIC SPEED Demon at half throttle.

I usually fly my Super Sportster EP with parallel setups using the Li-POLYs inregardless of their claims to continuous AMP draw spec's and back in April 15th, I found myself without the Parallel harness and came all the way to the club so, it was the first time ever that I flew her with just one APEX 2100mAH, 3S1P, 15C, Li-POLY and it flew for a little over 2 mintues and was excited to get some inflight measurements with my GPS receiver to record the maximum air speed of my Sportster EP with the existing modified Brushed power system.

Well, it registered 74.5 MPH!
I will try to install the GPS Receiver in the Sportster's Cockpit and certainly parallel the APEX Li-POLYs next time to see what kind of air speed the GPS records! I suspect a higher air speed as the parallel setups will not allow the Under Load Voltage to go below 11 Volts.

Here's some pictures of my flight today at the CLub Field.
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Old 05-14-2006, 10:39 PM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

Videos:

http://media.putfile.com/Super-Sport...-Apex-Li-POLYs

http://media.putfile.com/Low-High-Speed-Inverted-Pass

http://media.putfile.com/Super-Sport...Endo--9X8-Prop

http://media.putfile.com/Super-Sport...owered-by-Endo
Old 05-15-2006, 12:09 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

Hi all you, Im from Chile and bought a few weeks ago the SS, due to studying (laws) and working I dont have much time, so I've been trying to fly my plane at weekends without good results (havent been able to rise it!!!!!!)

The biggest problem its to get it run straight for takeoff, as it gets speed it tends to turn either left or right...
PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!
Old 05-15-2006, 12:53 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

Most r/c airplanes do that during take off. You just need to compensate by using the rudder and try to keep it from turning too much. If it does turn a little, that is fine, just as long as it can take off without hitting any obstacle.
Old 05-15-2006, 04:37 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System

ORIGINAL: chagolucho

Hi all you, Im from Chile and bought a few weeks ago the SS, due to studying (laws) and working I dont have much time, so I've been trying to fly my plane at weekends without good results (havent been able to rise it!!!!!!)

The biggest problem its to get it run straight for takeoff, as it gets speed it tends to turn either left or right...
PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!
Use the rudder to keep it straight on the take-off roll. With the stock power system, you may have trouble rising off of a grass field. You may want to try hand launching. I would advise an assistant help you with the hand launch so that you are ready on the controls. This plane hand launches fairly easily.
Old 05-15-2006, 05:52 AM
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Default RE: Great Planes Super Sportster EP with Modified Power System


ORIGINAL: chagolucho

Hi all you, Im from Chile and bought a few weeks ago the SS, due to studying (laws) and working I dont have much time, so I've been trying to fly my plane at weekends without good results (havent been able to rise it!!!!!!)

The biggest problem its to get it run straight for takeoff, as it gets speed it tends to turn either left or right...
PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!
Hey Chagolucho

I would recommend to change out the Stock Wheels to the next size up if you are trying to have that model take off from Grass Field. I did and it has worked very nicely, especially if you are flying with the Stock Power System.

Also, I would check the main landing gear alignment.

Good luck!
Carlos

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