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-   -   GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50" (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/electric-aerobatic-sport-planes-144/8456466-gp-eagle-580-matt-champan-cap-232-50%22.html)

P-51B 02-09-2009 10:47 AM

GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
The Great Planes MAtt Champman Cap 232 finally arrived at my house late last week, only four months after being ordered, and only two months after the original "expected" date on the Tower Hobbies site.

I haven't tried one of the Rimfire Motors yet, so I opted for the recommended one here to see how they compare to my other motors. I also decided on going with Hitec 85 servos. They have the same torque as the recommended futabas, but are faster. Also, due to budget at this point time, I couldn't spring for the 5085 digitals.

Here are a few unpacking photos:

P-51B 02-10-2009 10:56 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
The Cap is mostly together. It was ridiculously easy to assemble. The only difficult part is the pull-pull set up. Getting the threads through the guide tubes took some doing, but not bad. I still need to hook up the connectors (had a little trouble getting the thread through the tiny holes, but will get it done when I get back to it later in the week...dang work getting in the way!).

I like the way the magnetic canopy attaches. It has two dowels that get inserted into the front former, then two hooked tabs in the bottom rear that fit through slots in the framing. The whole thing then slides back to engage the magnets. Seems like a simple way to use a magnetic hatch that shouldn't blow off...at least not easily.

The Rimfire motor dropped right in (but see negative #1). I also wanted to try the new e-flight switching ESC, so I picked up one of those. Normally I use Castle controllers because I like being able to program them using my computer instead of counting beeps, but by the time I add a Ubec to one it would be nearly the twice the price of the e-flight...so I thought I would give them a try.

So far I have only two negatives on the kit:

1. They designed the servo mounts to only fit the very narrow recommended Futaba servos. Even using the Hitec 85s required cutting (and to think I was going to use some 225s I already had available). The attempts by companies to ensure you use only their house brand accessories really annoys me.

2. As with most electric models, in the attempt to save weight, the motor mount seems weak. I don't think it will take much of a ground strike to cause damage...do they even sell the motor box as a separate item???? I appreciate the attempts at saving weight, but the motor mount is the wrong place to do it. I will likely add some sheeting, but I haven't decided yet.

bradya_johnson 02-10-2009 05:10 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
Looks like a nice airplane. I noticed you have the newest Electrifly Edge 540 too. I was curious if the Matt Champman Cap use the same XLC (eXtreme Light Concept, using carbon fiber) technology as the Edge? I would expect that it would since the Cap is newer than the Edge, right. Or at least it is according to the model numbers: Edge GPMA1572, Cap GPMA1573. Carbon fiber is a great way to go, I cant imagine why new airplanes wouldnt use it these days. All the Precision Aerobatics planes use it. Any insight into how these electrifly planes compare to the PA planes?

Brady

Jeff Worsham 02-11-2009 03:14 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
I've been watching for this ARF for a while, no wonder there have been no reviews! Thanks for sharing yours as soon as you could. What Rimfire motor did you choose? (can't quite see it on the label). Looking at the manual, they list a sport setup and 3D motor battery option. Being at 5200" elev, I was thinking the 3D setup might be better here. Looking forward to hearing your flight report!

Hauling-A 02-11-2009 06:04 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 


ORIGINAL: Jeff Worsham

I've been watching for this ARF for a while, no wonder there have been no reviews! Thanks for sharing your as soon as you could. What Rimfire motor did you choose? (can't quite see it on the lable). Looking at the manual, they list a sport setup and 3D motor battery option. Being at 5200" elev, I was thinking the 3D setup might be better here. Looking forward to hearing your flight report!

Jeff, It looks like to me that it says it's a RimFire 42-50 800kv.

Jim

Jeff Worsham 02-12-2009 03:26 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 


ORIGINAL: Hauling-A

Jeff, It looks like to me that it says it's a RimFire 42-50 800kv.

Jim
Thanks Jim, now I'm starting to feel old since I couldn't read that! I was wrong in thinking they recommended a different motor for 3d vs "sport." Was just looking at GP's .pdf for the manual and it seems the power is changed with battery voltage. Using the same motor but going from 11.1V 20C to 14.8V and 25C (along with a prop change) is how they go from "sport" power to "3D" power. Wow, being new to electrics I have much to learn! Anyway, sure looking forward to hearing how well this plane flies and what battery setup P-51 decides to go with.

chamma 02-12-2009 09:10 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
I´m looking for this model too, but i´m thinking to use a Saito 56.
What do you think?
Will it fly 3d?

thanks.

P-51B 02-13-2009 08:39 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
You are correct on the motor. They recommend the 42-50-800, they also list it as a 0.32 in some places.

I think putting a glow engine on it will require a complete new engine mount/firewall.

The mount design appears very weak even for an electric, take a look at the photos below. The whole thing is supported by the tabs into/through the firewall at the top, the same at the bottom, and the two tabs with triangle balsa support you see on either side of the battery tray opening.

P-51B 02-13-2009 08:55 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
As requested here are a couple of interior shots. I don't have the ESC or battery velcroed in yet so I have not fixed the receiver in place yet.

I also need to find a longer servo arm. In the picture, I have a Hitec 85 but with the servo arm from a standard size servo on it (longer than the ones that come with the 85). With that arm and moving the rudder horns halfway in I can only get the recommended "high rate" throws of 1 1/2 inches (as measured at the bottom of the rudder). High Alpha (sorry, I hate the term 3d) recommended rates are much more. I after sitting for a day, the pull-pull thread seems to have gotten a bit slack, I may have to repace it with some spyder wire, since I won't be able to re-use the stock stuff. Maybe I didn't get it tight enough on the initial install. The thread seems alot like spyder wire, so I think I screwed up an otherwise good piece of "hardware".

P-51B 02-13-2009 09:02 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
In looking at it, it will also be interesting to see how the landing gear plate holds up for everyone, particularly on the grass fields I fly from.

P-51B 02-13-2009 09:11 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here are a few photos of the hatch mount. Seems like a simple way to avoid blowing of the canopy. Sorry about the last photo. I was trying to show the slot the hooked tab goes into along with the tab. Once the tab is through the slot, the whole canopy slides back to engage the magnets and secures the canopy with the hooked tab. The dowels at the front are long enough to stay through the "firewall" and the cowl covers the gap.

P-51B 02-13-2009 09:19 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 


ORIGINAL: Jeff Worsham



Anyway, sure looking forward to hearing how well this plane flies and what battery setup P-51 decides to go with.



I have two Thunderpower 3850 4S packs I use in another plane, so I will be setting it up for those first.

If you notice in the interior shots, there are two servo wires going to the tail. I have a servo on each elevator half instead of using the joiner wire. So with the extra servo back there, I will likely need the extra weight in the nose to compensate anyway.



chamma 02-13-2009 11:30 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
Thank´s P-51B.
I think it will require a new engine mount/firewall too.
This is not the problem.
But the problem is if it doesn´t fly 3d and the weight. LOL...
Did you fly the Edge 540T?
Do you know wich one is better for 3D?

sorry my english.... i am from Brazil.

Thank´s,
Thiago.

P-51B 02-13-2009 12:49 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
Sorry, I have not flown the 540. It is still in the box in the photo. It was a gift last fall. I ordered the Cap around that time also. I started to buy the parts for the Edge, but by the time I got them together the cap showed up...so I decided to put that one together first since there was already a thread on the Edge.

chamma 02-13-2009 07:51 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
So good luck with the Cap and the Edge.
I gona wait a fly report.
Thanks again,
Thiago.

P-51B 02-16-2009 08:10 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is the assembly procedure for the Cap:

Step 1: Open box and pour in a few drops of thin CA
Step 2: Close box and shake.
Step 3: Take out completed airplane!

P-51B 02-16-2009 08:19 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is the speed control mounted. I should have mounted it with the zip ties on the "x-brace" instead of around the box joints. There is a bit of "overhang" (for lack of better term) on the upper and lower box points, which, when I tightened up the zip ties put pressure on the "x-brace" and cracked it.

P-51B 02-16-2009 08:29 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
The meter readings:

First one is an APC 12x6e on a fresh battery
Second is an APC 13x6.5e on another fresh battery
Third is the 13x6.5e after about 30 seconds
Fourth is jus a shot of the battey type used. The batteries were purchased last fall, but only have about 6 flights each on them so far.

P-51B 02-16-2009 08:34 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is the approximate ground clearance with the APC 13x6.5e. I had the tail propped up, but not quite level, so clearance is actually just a little less than it appears in the photo. If had the fuse level, it would probably be right at, or just under, 2.5 inches.

P-51B 02-16-2009 08:36 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
Checking the recommended balance point:

P-51B 02-16-2009 08:56 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
I don't have a digital scale for aircraft, but using the digital bathroom scale and a little math indicates that the plane is around 3.75 pounds (estimates on the box are 3.25 to 3.5). I have one extra servo plus the extension wire for it, a larger battery pack than they used (3850 vs 2100 or 2170), hangar 9 pro-lite wheels instead of the CRAPPY foam things that come with the arf, and the E-Flite ESC...which seems a bit bulky compared to other ESC I have (but I don't have a scale to weigh it with).

Note that it is also DA pwered!!!:D


I probably won't have a chance to fly it until next weekend at best, we'll see if the weather cooperates!


Two more dislikes with the ARF.

3. The CRAPPY foam wheels it comes with.
4. The decals, while nice, do not seem to stick very well around the bends-such as the rudder joint.

None of the dislikes are showstoppers (thanks to a dremel for enlarging the servo holes). Heck, those worrying about saving every gram may not even use the decals!

P-51B 02-16-2009 09:03 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
Oh, one more addition.

I picked up some dubro servo arms and have the high rates set for the recommended "3-D' ([:'(] bad term) rates and my low rates set at the recommended high rate points. (Of course I added expo.)

I also set up some flaperons, just in case I think I need them for some reason.

P-51B 02-27-2009 09:33 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
I finally got to maiden the Cap last night.

It could probably use some rudder input for tracking on the ground...but I gave it full throttle and it was off the deck in about 10-15 feet. (It has good power with the 4s setup.:) )

Mine required some aileron and elevator trim for level flight. Once trimmed, it felt a bit nose heavy. I flipped it inverted and the nose still dropped so I think the CG could stand to be moved back a bit. It flys like other Caps, quick and agile. I tried to induce the traditional Cappyness (Cap snappyness) at low and high speeds with both the high and "3D" rates, but it did not exhibit any of those tendancies for me. I got quite a bit of wing rock in harriers, but it did not fall out of them. In knife edge there is coupling as it tucks to the gear, along with a very very slight roll.

I brought it around for a practice landing approach and it acted very nicely so on the next go-around I brought it down for a nice smooth landing. Unfortunately, I wasn't paying attention to my exact position on our runway...that we re-oriented last year...and forgot about the little mounds that are waiting to be rolled flat where our old fence posts were (now a line across the center of the field). Well the cap touched right on one of them. The gear stuck...the plane tried to continue. The results were, well, lets just some some repairs are now needed.

There is actually more damage than the photos here show.

mrbigg 02-27-2009 12:09 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
Wing rock might improve when the CG gets moved back. Sorry to hear about the crash landing.

Jeff Worsham 02-27-2009 12:20 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
Sorry about the crunched fuse- on the maiden no less! [:'(] Will be interested to see how you decide to fix it. I guess another option is to see if they offer a replacement fuse.

brew2u 03-20-2009 03:05 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
LHS owner here outside Austin Tx maidened his GP EMBREE and the gear collapsed 60 ft down the grass runway. Looking at the results inside shows clearly that the gear plywood mount attaches to thin balsa at the sides. He is absolutely furious. I got an EDGE 540T EP with the same design problem on the landing gear, but am glad LHS guy flew his 1st. Will be adding plenty of plywood to the sides of the landing gear mount. Also crushed the fuselage 3 times while gently assembling. Rear elevator servo had almost NO wood to attach to. A little too light I guess, but I am just getting into electric planes. My two cents. Brew

Don M. 04-13-2009 06:58 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
1 Attachment(s)
I wanted one of these Caps until I watched a buddy maiden his Edge 540 ( very similiar aircraft ) and the gear collapsed on a "gentle" asphalt runway landing competely destroying the plane.. Here are the pics - terrible damage. I'm going elsewhere because if you strengthen the gear plate the fuse will probably break in two. I can't believe how these things are built. The only way around it is to put in a BIIIIIG battery and never land.

P-51B 04-13-2009 08:11 AM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 


ORIGINAL: brew2u

LHS owner here outside Austin Tx maidened his GP EMBREE and the gear collapsed 60 ft down the grass runway. Looking at the results inside shows clearly that the gear plywood mount attaches to thin balsa at the sides. He is absolutely furious. I got an EDGE 540T EP with the same design problem on the landing gear, but am glad LHS guy flew his 1st. Will be adding plenty of plywood to the sides of the landing gear mount.

Well I went back and looked at mine that broke, and sure enough it is balsa on the sides there (unlike the firewall that has a layer of both balsa and really THIN ply). Additionally, the THIN ply support that runs between the gear area and the battery tray for strutural support is cut and installed so that the wood grain runs horizontally instead of vertically...what were they thinking?!


sevans16 04-16-2009 05:03 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50"
 
I ran up my Cap 580 with: 42-50-800 motor
ThunderPower 30c 4cell 2250mah
E-Flite 60amp Pro ESC
APC 13x6.5e

Max Amp draw is 50 amps.

raflyer 08-07-2009 12:00 PM

RE: GP Eagle 580 (Matt Champan cap 232) 50
 
I have the 580 as well, i have fixed my gear 3 times so far! Here is what i did to eliminate the problem. I cut a new 1/8" lite ply piece to go between the 2 formers in place over the stock gear blk. Then i added 1/8" balsa SQ's onto the fuse sides from the firewall back to the 2nd former. NO more landing gear issues!! I need to play with the CG now and also, with a cheap 42-50-800Kv motor and a 3800mah 14.8V batt, i don't have enough pwr to pull out of a torque roll! I am running a 12x8 so im going to switch to a 13x6 and see what happens. Was only getting 525W and 30amp draw Advice? Thoughts?


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