Helijack

Looks like Castle Creations is jerking my friend around and they need to have the public know just what they are doing.

I have a friend who purchased a new Axi 5320/34 and a Phoenix HV85. Now this dude is a retired electrical engineer and knows his stuff. So he is getting this horrible buzz, vibration, howl, sorta thing at the top 1/2 throttle setting, goes through all these setups, downloads garbage from CC, they keep telling him it is the motor, the motor folks are saying the controller is not timing correctly (just what my friend said), and so on. Now mind you 3 weeks have gone by.

Well I just happened to buy a similar sized Axi, and the Jeti Opti 90 controller for a project this winter because it was on sale. Not needing it yet I let him try the controller, and it resolved his problem completely and instantly.

Well CC wont respond to him now. Meanwhile he only has a couple of weeks of flying season left and is getting the jerking around and can only swap for product where he bought it. He doesn't want the CC now.

So folks, CC isn't all it cracks up to be. I wrote them a note, why dont you?
Jack

Spitfiremk1x

I too, had a problem with a CC esc, a couple of months back. Sent them an e-mail, they called me and did some tests. It was their problem. As was told on the phone, 3 days later a new esc came in the mail plus a package to return the defective one. I was very pleased with the CC folks, both on the phone and the rapid solution to my problem. I will use more of their products in the future as a result. Keep them flying, John.

ray foley

my experience with CC follows spitfire's almost exactly. The folks at CC have been nothing but helpful and supportive to me over the years. I can't fathom why your friend's experience seems so atypical.

Send your concerns to Pat del Castillo at CC I am sure they will make it right.

ciao -rjf

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

So, I'm assuming incidente est morire?[X(]

Helijack

Well my friend got a Jeti 77 to replace it and CC says there is nothing wrong, but the new Jeti also solved the problem. They sent him programming and such, they tried, but when they couldn't figure it out, they say it is the motor and there is nothing they can do about it.

So, I don't know if one is better than the other, but the Jeti sure as heck works well with the AXI and CC wouldn't take care of their product issues, instead gave up and blamed something else.

I have no beef with CC. I don't own any of their products (thankfully). Just service leaves gaps.
Jack

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

That just does not sound like Castle at all. If they couldn't figure it out over the phone, they would've had your friend send them the whole works, or at the very least, sent him a new ESC with a post-paid envelope. Was your friend willing to work with them?

d_wheel

Same thing here Helijack. I tried the CC HV controller on an Axi 5330-18. It would cut out at high throttle on 10 cell LiPo. Sent it in and they said they repaired it. While waiting for it to return, I purchased a Jeti and it worked fine. After receiving the CC back, I installed it on a different airframe with the same results as on the first try. It still cut out at full throttle. I tried every combination of setting that were suggested on different message boards. Called Castle and they said there was something wrong with my motor. Come on, it works fine with a Jeti!! The CC is still laying at the back of my work bench gathering dust while the Jeti is going strong. I now have 2 planes with 5330-18's and Jeti controllers, both work great. Anyone want to buy a CC 110 HV? $200.00 shipped.

I have several other low voltage CC controllers and all work fine, and have had nothing but stellar service up until the problem with the 110HV.

Later;

D.W.

Helijack

But But but........Castle swears it is the motor not the speed controller. I have been in contact with them too about this, more as just a moron inciting riot. No, my friend worked really hard with them, was despondent over the time frame. They never offered a replacement, never offered to repair it, because he "didn't ask" for those routes. The guy was honestly trying to help them work out the issues and they just let the ball drop, and he used to be a frigging electrical engineer!

Nope, seems to me Castle couldn't figure it out and so they just decided it was the motor. But as I said the Jeti works fine on his and my big Axi's.

I am not saying Castle is a bad company, they need to improve thier product and customer relations. I don't own any of their stuff and will not because of what I have seen go on here! Axi and Jeti treat me well and the failures have been replaced promptly and without question by the importer. That is all I ask from any company.
Jack

Helijack

This was Larry's response to this thread to me:

"Terrific Jack..Thanks for stating my case so well.

Obviously some changes at CC as they have grown into a larger entity.
Yes, they used to be very responsive but easy to forget ones roots in rapid growth.

What some of your responders missed is that it wasn't sent back because they
acknowledged that a new one would perform the same..At that time, they should
have offered to buy it back.

Will never buy another CC product.


Larry"

aflipz

My Feedback: (10)

i've seen this "mystery problem" occur with a bad solder on one of the motor connectors, the resistance in one of the 3 wires was causing similar issues. Betcha one of the connectors on the esc side is pooched.

Once i had a problem with one of my numerous cc products, and they have shown absolutely spectacular customer service the likes of wich i had never experienced before.

Good luck

stinky

Larry, I am still sitting on the fence! I have used jeti all along without any problems. I did buy a Castle Creations 60 amp speed control to try them out just for my very own. I had all kinds of problems with full throttle motor cut off,after writhing and very long angry confused email I did get a quick responce from CC. They pointed to end point adjustments and battery not being able to suport the amps the motor needed. Both of which weren't the problem but I gave it a try. Castle did show me that Castle speed controles offer more with downloadable features. Which they send me a free Castle link. I was very pleased with the abllity to change cut off voltage to any setting I wanted. The programing is alot eaiser on the computer also. Rather than by radio and the sticks! And you can upgrade software on your speed control as it becomes available! I am not sure I solve the motor cut off problem in auto throttle but swithced to fixed throttle and haven't had any problem with motor cut off at full throttle. One thing I was doing wrong was not placing the throttle at 1/2 when applying power and not giving full throttle for 2 seconds before retarding the throttle. The wasn't alowing the speed control time to see full position and was giving me all kinds of headaches. I later learned on take off just use full for 2 seconds and the problems seemed to go away. I have since switched to a fixed throttle setting. Note: Thru the this entire process the Jeti 77 opto always worked. But they don't have the same features that CC has. But they were very helpful and was quick to respond to emails I was pleased with the customer support.
I still only own one as of today???
steve

Gary Hoorn

There is a reason you can program any ESC. If you have a motor/Lipo combination that allows the voltage to drop below 9 volts on full throttle application the ESC is going to complain and shut down the motor. Every time I have experienced such occurences it was the Lipo and not the ESC. If you don't mind killing your Lipos with the Jeti continue to use them. To duplicate the Jeti performance shut off the low voltage cutoff on the Castle ESC.
Gary

ray foley

I used to have some difficultty with cc phx ESCs, especially with the auto range feature until someone, I think it was radical dave of www.radicalrc.com , suggested that I install an extension cable with an rf choke torroid between the ESC and the rcvr. So I gave it a try, lo and behold, the auto range feature works great and annoying spurious glitchiness went away. The torroid choke has become standard equipment on all my e-planes. Bob Kopski (remember him?) used to splice three 10 microhenry rf chokes into the leads of an extension cable for just the same purpose, worked great. Years ago some of the aveox ESCs had rf chokes in the signal cable as standard equipment, HMMM. Do you see a pattern here?

Give it a try

ciao -rjf

d_wheel

The "cutting out" I was experiencing had nothing to do with low voltage cut off. I never allow the battery to get low enough to use this feature, preferring to time my flights so that I have at least 20% reserve at the end of a flight. With my setup, the motor would run normally up to about 90% throttle. After that it would actually slow down between 90% and 100% throttle, while the current being drawn from the battery would go up sharply, and it would make a strange whining noise. This happened with two different motors. As I said before, every combination of settings I could think of were tried without solving the problem. With the Jeti controller, everything is normal. Sorry if my use of the term "cutting out" was confusing.

One of my favorite features of the Jeti 90 is its heat sink. On my Patty, it is mounted in a hole in the bottom of the cowl with the heat sink out in the breeze. It never gets warmer than 110 degrees f. The design of the CC does not allow this kind of mounting.

I really like most of the features of the CC HV controller better than those of the Jeti. Throttle curve is MUCH better than the Jeti, and with correct settings the "brake" will allow the propeller to windmill during down lines. The Jeti, even with brake off, stops the propeller at low throttle. I had to set up a mix to keep the prop turning during down lines and on landing approach. If it were not for the problem at full throttle and the heat sink were better designed, the CC would be my controller of choice!

Later;

D.W.

Helijack

Well, Larry's problem got a little better as the batteries used up the charge. Look, I am not trying to create a big war here, there is a problem, Castle support is letting the ball drop. They couldn't fix it and 2 different Jeti controllers didn't have the issue, same batteries, airplane, prop, radio. It IS the controller in my mind and it will take a lot to convince me otherwise.

Larry was blown away how easy it was to program the Jeti with it's little card. Simple, don't need the computer at the field. If you want to count the hairs on the bees knees, it won't do it, but it gets the aircraft in the air.
Jack

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

There are/were a few bugs in the programming in the HV's when running the larger outrunners...

I ran into this same issue myself with a HiMax 63XX series...

I called, talked with a tech (great guy and spent a LONG time with me discussing it all).

They rewrote the code of the controllers from the ground up when adding a lot of heli optimization.

The were not aware of the issues of big outrunners because they had just been coming out.

I see they have released a couple new beta code updates that might address the issue.

By and large, CC is a fantastic company, with great products and ingenious design. There is some growing pains to be had, and they are/have had them. But they stick beside their products, provide updates and excellent service... at least in my case.

Recall that this is pioneering technology here, regardless of how "qualified" someone outside CC is. The permutations for problems with the VAST array of motors/quality are so high that I find it amazing that they have managed to build and adapt so quickly.

They have earned and kept my business.

Helijack

Great, glad to hear that. They gave my friend some updates over the internet and they did not resolve the problem and then they just gave up.
j

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

That's too bad...

Hopefully he can either sell it and go with another brand... or maybe Castle will be able to help him to his satisfaction in the near future. In the meantime it doesn't help to bust their chops through 2nd hand relation of first person perspective...

I don't have the option to test out the latest beta (released on 9/27) that followed firmware on 9/22 but it's obvious they are aware of a variety of issues and are working on it...

Again... they are pioneering new ground... it isn't painless. Neither are lipo fires, locked up servos, or anything else that goes wrong in this hobby.

See some of the "fixes" they have implemented as listed on the download page:

Version 1.54 09/27/06

Fixed bug in downline braking software, controller would not allow user to throttle up until motor had fully stopped
Improved motor run code for better performance while running outrunner style motors
Improved reciever signal processing to handle high frequency input
Improved arming routine safety. Unit will not arm in noisy environments


Version 1.53 Beta 09/22/06

Improved motor start routine for outrunner style motors
Improved motor run routine to handle variances in outrunner style motors

aflipz

My Feedback: (10)

youre kidding!

I can't say i read the whole thread, been subscribed but not paying much attention. Have they offered to swap it at any point during this operation or did they actually perform maintenance on the very same unit and return it to you?

I am very surprised at the outcome, it just goes to show you that even companies with excellent customer service track records can have one slip through the cracks from time to time. I'd insist for a replacement at this point if you haven't gotten one, sure the season is over but it's your right as a client to have a functionnal esc; you paid for it.

e-sailpilot86

I've never had problems with CC... one controller had issues, it was the cheaper early production run of the 18 amp Thunderbird, it got replaced promptly, and they gave a complete explaination of what went wrong... Please go over the process your friend went through in more detail, as in the tech details. It still could have been a programming issue, whether it was the wrong software, or the wrong timing. What was up with the timing details CC told him about? Did he set the timing to what the tech support suggested? BTW, Jeti and Axi I believe are known to have worked together before, so they might have better knowledge of what the Axi motors require.

Doc Austin

Any problem I've had with a castle creations product has stemmed from my own ignorance of how electric R/C works. I don't think the castle ESCs are made for the guy who doesn't know anything and just wants to plug in something he doesn't have to know anything about. Uhhhh, that would be me.

Until my Phoenix 60, I used nothing but E Flite controllers, which I plugged in and forgot about. When I got the Phoenix, I had to get the data link and learn to program it myself. Suffering from a mild form of Dyslexia, this was difficult, but Bernie at CC was really good about returning my E mails and walked me through it just fine. He even called me afterwards to make sure I got everything right.

Yes, I prefer to just plug it in and forget about it, but that's just me. However, if you want to be really involved in how your power system works, and have the flexibility to do almost anythibng you want with it, I don't see another choice but CC controllers.

And.........their product support............ Doc's rating:

saitofreak

CC has a great reputation, but at the cost you pay for those controllers, the service should be absolute - if a user can't resolve an issue like this the company should take it upon themselves to sort it out. There are many cheap, high-quality ESC's out there. It won't take much to switch.

pilotpete2

True, but then we are hearing only one side of the story and second hand to boot
If this had been posted on the CC forum we may have gotten to the bottom of the issue and would know "The rest of the story[8D]"
Pete

thejc

I also have had prblems wiyh cc units.All were fixed by cc no charge ,no no fuss with one exception. A 25 amp brushed would cut out at about 3/4 power. I was running it from a servo driver. Back and forth with cc to no avail. It finnally hit me the only thing that was different in my setup and that which cc would probely use was the controlling unit. I finnally set it up with a reciever and transmitter, problem gone.I had sent the whole set up to them, motor,speed control and battery. They had no trouble with it.It was not a compatible combination with the servo driver.Might be of intrest or help to someone.

snolord1

My Feedback: (7)

i burnt a CC25 running an Astro 020 and when i called them they replaced it w/o problems.