Greg Covey

Hi,

The current magazine ads for Cirrus keep teasing us about the new Cirrus Micro Joule Flight Pack. It looks like the latest micro-flight technology using a full strength receiver and standard servo arm form.

I see that [link=http://www.hobbypeople.net/mfr/cirrus11.asp]Hobby People[/link] doesn't have them in stock yet.

Has anyone else seen these new components yet?

Mike Taylor

My Feedback: (1)

Greg,

We've been able to buy the MJ Rx and ESC's out here from the local Hobby People brick-and-mortar. I bought one a week or so ago to drive the Falcon's with. It seems to work OK and doesn't seem to be temperature sensitive, but I haven't put it in the air yet. Anyway, there were no MJ servos available; it seems Chuck had used up all the ones they had looking for a good set. These are still coming from the first hand-assembled prototype batch from what I understand. It doesn't seem that any of the flight packs are being delivered as yet.

Mike Taylor

My Feedback: (1)

Okay. here's the scoop on micro servos.

I just now came back from over the hill showing off the Falcon servos to the guys. Chuck had the MJ system there in a plane, and we hooked one up in place of one of the Cirrus servos he had in it (he bought those from the LHS). The MJ servos are very jittery and resolution is sketchy, at best. They jump from location to location and appear to have about 10 or 12 descrete positions.

After we swapped the wiring on the Falcon's plug (NOT Standard pattern! Check before powering them up!) to match the Cirrus, we plugged one in and fired it up. The Falcons are AMAZING! Very smooth, super resolution, silent, and feel really strong (but I'm used to feeling magnetic actuators)...

Chuck just talked me out of two and asked me to order at least two more for him when I send off another order today. I'm now wondering if I should cancel my M-J order and just go with the Cirrus Rx I bought seperately and these servos... I do wish the LVC on the Cirrus ESC was set-able to a lower voltage (seems they're set for 4 volts) and this makes them really hard to use on a single LiPoly cell...

Greg Covey

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the update. What is the difference between the Falcon servos, FMA PS-20 servos, and Cirrus MJ servos? Do you have a link to the Falcon servos?

Remember that i've been away from the micro-flight world since Springtime playing with bigger e-conversions.

Regards.

Mike Taylor

My Feedback: (1)

Greg,

The Falcon servos are shown at the top of this page: http://www.falconmodels.uk.com/acata..._C_Flying.html

The Falcons are a totally new design, while the PS20's are merely small, conventional servos. The PS20s are 5.6 grams vs. Falcon's 1.7 grams, but they are less than half the price of the Falcons ($23 vs. $56)...

The Cirrus MJ's have a very tiny and complex metal gear train (that seems to be the source of manufacturing problems) and have a wiper pot (that seems to be not so smooth or linear) to control the feedback circuitry, and a fairly high chip count. The output arm on the MJs is epoxied to the output shaft, and this has to be removed (and later re-epoxied) if you want to take a look inside, while the Falcon is right there out in the open for you to admire or work on.

The Falcons have about 4 chips, a Hall's sensor (with tiny magnet in the output arm), and only 3 moving parts (if you count the motor as 1 part). The MJ's weigh twice what the Falcons weigh and are nowhere near as smooth in their operation. The Falcon gear train consists of plastice gears - 1 spur and pinion combo that turns the worm gear that engages the output gear/servo arm directly. They are as simple (but brilliant) a design as I can imagine short of the magnetic actuators...

The only thing to consider when you get ready to fire up the Falcons is that they are not wired in the same pattern as most of the U.S. gear and you need to swap two of the plug leads.

BTW, I just ordered another half dozen of them. I am picking up some of Matt K's RFFSs, including one he has converted to drive 3-wire conventional servos, and I will have more powerful controls at less weight as the RFFS and 2 BSD standard actuators (actually at 3 grams more since if is converted to the two-cell cofiguration he documented in RCMF)...

Now that its heading for winter flying and a young man's thoughts turn to indoor activities, these are THE hot ticket. Get your order in now.

Greg Covey

Mike,

Thanks much for bringing me up to speed. Those Falcon servos look interesting indeed.

I have many of the PS-20 servos in models from micro-flight stuff like the Widget and SuperFlea to larger 3D models like the Fliton Flubber. They work very well.

One of our biggest issues last year with the RFFS100 modules was interference in a group setting. We often have 5-8 planes in the air at once! Until Dan and his Dad release their new product, I want to experiment with other new technologies.

I have also found that smaller is not always better. For example, planes the size of the eDogFight T3D, Formoplast Cannonshot, Widget, and SuperFlea not only fly very well indoors but some have amazing aerobatic capability. They are often easier to repair and handle with less difficulty.

Part of my experiment this Winter will be to replace existing GWS R4-P receivers with FMA M5 receivers. The receivers are the same weight but the M5 is a "full strength" dual conversion DSP receiver. The GWS receivers would also glitch on us sometimes.

Keep in mind that I have nothing against the RFFS100 module. It is a great design! It was never meant to fly in a crowd and works great in isolated situations.

Another priority of mine, as you already know, is making micro-flight simpler. This has been a challenge. The Cirrus Micro Joule flight pack should be a step in the right direction when the manufacturing issues are resolved.

Regards.

jimbosstuff1

Hi Mike, I see your from CA. and you said you just got back form over the hill, I live in the central San Joaquin valley, Is that close to over the hill? I sure would like to see and be involved with the Micro scene, Where might a fellow go to see other addicts like ourselves,and play with our toys? I ordered the Joule form HP last month and the delivery know is at the end of the month or longer, However it sounds like there is some glitches in the pie. Whats up with that? I just finished the first in a line of Micro Tanks (My building skill) that fly quite well (46+grs.) RFFS and Selmans on 145mha, As I get better at less glue and lighter wood ,I might have a real Micro airplane... The Falcon's look and sound like their going to make a big splash in the Micro pond...Yes,yes Ya! Thanks E-Jim

Mike Taylor

My Feedback: (1)

E-Jim,

The 'hill' I mentioned is pretty far from San Joachin. I live half way between L.A. and Santa Barbara.

For a local club, go back to the main page, and click on 'RC Community', then find the 'Find Other Clubs' button. That lets you enter CA, and a list of clubs pops up. See if there are some in your area. I'm lucky in that there are a lot of micro flyers in my area - maybe you can hook up with a club in your area, too... Hanging out with others will make the learning curve flatten right out.

The Cirrus MJ components are currently available off the shelf at Hobby People, but the flight packs are not shipping. As I understand it, they were put in the hobby shops for the hardcore users to use and test. The people who ordered the flight packs should get them when the manufacturing problems (they are really tiny units!) are solved. The servos seem to be the weak link, and are probably the problem. The rest of the gear works quite well...

I agree that the Falcons will make a big splash. They have upped the ante by a large margin, and all the other manufacturers will be scrambling to get into the sub-two gram range ASAP.

This is the great golden age of micros. New break-throughs happen on a daily basis.

As far as building light - that is an acquired skill. Consider taking out a subscription to RCMicroFLight - a very good source of what's current and new.

To help control the amount of glue you use, get the micro tips for your CA; they allow very presise application of small amounts of CA.

Watch the weights of the covering materials you use; HomeFly (http://www.homefly.com/) has a nice listing of various covering materials and their weights to help you make intelligent choices.

Check out web sites or forums devoted to light weight building; SmallFlyingArts is one web site devoted to (primarily) rubber powered FF, and has a lot of good ideas that adapt well to micro R/C.

Remember: 'Build to fly - not to crash'. The odd thing is that the lighter you build, the less likely breakage is - a 1 ounce model just can't build up enough inertia to do itself much damage.

BTW - welcome to the group and micro-flight, and keep at it!

jimbosstuff1

Thanks ever so much for taking the time to help, I do get Microflight ,from the begining,doesn't seem to help my building skills though,,,practics and patience. I'm at present working on the airport manager at the old Castle air base here in Merced to get something started in the hangers, that where used for the maintenance of the kc-135 and B-52's lots of room. I have snuck onto the base and flown Sticks,Tiger M,and a Micro tank proto.(with the pigeons). Several years ago a trailer manufacturer occupied the big hanger and when they belled up,left all of the assembly line equipment still bolted to the floor.but there are areas that can be used for indoor. The airport manager has been taking r/c lessons and showing some interest is indoor flying,,Soooo maybe. He at first was conserned about insurance but now that he is a AMA member he seems to be weakening. I also seem to be getting more interest at our flying field. I drag out my electric stuff and fly while others are wiping off the gum. And have more and more members asking about where would be a good place to start. I have pick up the nick name of Electric-Jim at the field, OK with me,been called worst things. Became a member of the NIRAC a while back hoping to get info on stuff in my area,still waiting but not given up. ENOUGH already.... E-JIm