Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

This has turned into one of those never ending debates.
Weather it is raining or snowing, I have better things to do than spend time on the bench. For me, time on the bench, simply is not enjoyment, flying is.

It all boils down to the fact that we are all different. Some enjoy ALOT of bench time and some don't.
Obviously Mr. saucerguy has either ALOT of time, trial and error and practice on the bench or was born with the natural ability to build a plane from scratch in a few short hours. I have neither. So it would take me as long as I said it would in the first place.
There are alot of good RTF planes out there, weather you know it or not. I bought one for $69.00 and it flew great out of the box. NO complaints.

Let's agree to disagree.

Idare2bdul

I went through this in RC cars. The Japanese manufactures would sell a car and if you needed a part you bought the whole part tree it came on. American companies tended to not make the same mistake. ARF's are the new reality for most RC'ers. The older crowd of builders sometimes has a hard time relating to the new breed that are fliers not builders.

As a kid I had lots of time and little money. I built because it was cheaper and better than what I could get in a plane(control line back then) or a slot car or ... the list goes on. ARF's are often now cheaper to buy than a build yourself plane. Finding time and place to build is tough for many people regardless of age.

saucerguy

Wheelnut, I gotta ask, how many planes have you tried to build before, what type were they if you did? I think the misconceptions about them really steer people away from that area, thinking they must spend millions of hours to build some elaborate creation that rivals a full scale aircraft. Those days are over with the modern kits and this new generation of builders have innovated ways to create a plane, that you would laugh as to the simplicity behind it. When I get my video camera working, I'm going to do a 120 second build, start to finish of an rc plane, just for laughs and to show, it's just not that hard to bash something together and go flying.

I'll typically have one plane I'm scratch building together, just to have something I adore, and others I'll bash out quickly just to have something different to fly because the entire arf/rtf market is quite limited. The thing about my creations I see huge advantages and merit on their own, they last a hell of a lot longer then anything I can pull off of the shelf, they also tend to fly much better and I can make them the way I want to, not the way someone else dictated it must be. We can agree to dissagree, but I must stand my ground along letting fellow pilots know, building is absolutely not for just a few of us, it is a great big part of this hobby that brings a great deal of joy to all of us that decide to go that route, you also become a better pilot in the process, and it saves a great deal on your pocket book in the process since you are no longer at the mercy of stocking, buying, waiting, etc. for those precious replacement parts since most can be easily fabricated in house with much of them using stuff you would normally toss into the recycle bin.

I don't fly heli's for the latter reason, there is only so much you can do in that area with them unless you have a machine shop.

bzinfinity

I understand where you are coming from Saucer - but I will say this in closing because I think Wheelnut is right about an endless debate.

The time I have devoted to my hobbies is spread pretty thin these days. (RC Crawling, Nitro Trucks, Heli's, Planes, a few Boats.)

On rainy days I'm usually doing something with the family or driving Crawlers with my son, or bashing the trucks with my buddies.

I go flying every other Saturday when I'm off work, and it's pretty much a one day affair.

I chose to spend the time alotted on flying, not building, period.

Like I said - my scratch built or kit build planes DO fly better, especially the bigger ones.

But with limited hobby time, especially hobby time thats divided amongst vehicles, I'm at a point in my life at which 10 seconds of prep time to attach a wing is a lot more attractive than screwing around with building stuff.

And I have seen 12 year old kids take a plane out of the box and outfly veteran pilots who were building RC planes 5 years after the freaking Wright Brothers died.

Sometimes change and convenience is not a bad thing. And I still say that the actual flight of the plane is the measure of the pilot, not his ability to make parts for said plane.

There really is a 12 year old who flies at our field who could easily win nationals, and once he hits 18, he probably will. His most expensive plane right now is a Typhoon2.

Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

I only tried two kits. One was a mustang and the other was like the Vapor but it was a kit. That one failed miserably.

I will never buy a kit, unless it's a plane that I really want bad and I just can't find it as an PNP, RTF or ARF.

I just simply don't have the time or even feel like it for that matter.

-pkh-

My Feedback: (2)

This hobby has two main focuses to it:

1) The modeling or building of RC aircraft
2) Flying model aircraft

Some guys like one better than the other (building or flying), and some like both equally well. I like flying more than building, so I buy ARFs and maybe some RTFs. I've also known a few guys that actually like the modelling/building aspect more than flying. They will build a plane, fly it a few times, sell it, and build another one.

saucerguy

This clarifies much for me here, and I can very much see why you are reluctant to attempt another build, those are not planes I'd be starting people modeling out, and in fact, if they are going to fly them without any build experience, the ARF equivelant would be the way to go for them to achieve success in the field. If you went with a simpler style of plane to begin with, you likely would not be so adament about never wanting to build, and if anything, the feeling you get after a scratch build regardless of it's origin and design just cannot be replaced with anything when you are behind the sticks. What I'm finding with the arf's and rtf's, they require some extra's that I've picked up along the way as a builder to beef up areas that clearly needed it. I'm still kicking myself for wasting money on parkzone replacement stuff, thinking in full scale car land where you tend to want to keep everything stock, and in fact, there is a dynamic going on here where I feel you guys that only do arf's and rtf's are being totally ripped off upon, being at the mercy of the manufacturer to get your replacement parts which in every single case is vastly overpriced, much less the hassle of having to order and wait.

I also take note, our selection of kits these days are quite limited and mostly overpriced, this is another turn off in this venue, and I just cannot bring myself to spending the same amount on a kit then I would an arf, which is why I mainly scratch build. The reason they are overpriced is because the demand is so low, that you cannot manufacture these in volume unless you want to sit on them for years and anybody that knows about business and production, volume is mandatory to get the prices down. Take note, the next time you are shopping around for one, look at their stock on hand, even popular brands such as mountain models, I've noticed in too many cases they had only a handful in stock, and I can drive this home with my own kit's I manufacturer, it takes a tremendous amount of time to make just one kit compared to 20-30 which is why I only sell them periodically and only when I decide to do a production run of several of them at once.

If you only do kits and never get into scratch, you are missing out on the biggest picture along being hands on. I'm finding it totally liberating to not have to follow some specific set of rules and this clearly is where people have issues with kits in general, too many areas where you must do step a before step b without knowing why, it's just do it or else you will be sorry. That is not fun at all, not even for me, and in the end, I don't feel like it's my own creation, it's someone elses that I just finished up upon and I just don't get that same feeling I do on the sticks with one as I do with a scratch build.

I'm not knocking arf's and rtf's, they have introduced a tremendous amount of new pilot's to this hobby, it's a really good thing and I always tell the new pilots to go with one for their first plane(s), knowing full well they will likely trash their planes and destroying something they spent countless hours on would totally turn them off, yet I've had some of these guys surprise me, opting to circumvent that introductory gambit and build their own trainers. The latter in almost all cases would bash them together using some cheap foam so they were not out much in time and money at all. I also used the latter materials to really push my skills forward and never put much thought into worrying about crashing these creations that were clearly out of the current flight skills and abilities. They also helped me with the transition from building free flight to RC and have been nice to have around to reverse engineer the basics, for there is a slight learning curve in this area that has to be addressed, ie. you cannot just gear up a free flight plane and expect it to fly properly.

Also, one final thing here along build land, I've taken note on too many occasions where the new pilot has everything set up and ready to go, complaining that there is no time to fly or the weather will not allow them to do so, so their planes and gear get delegated to the closet, in many cases never to come out again, and in these cases I tell them that instead of complaining, use the down time to get into building, this way they are still active in the hobby, and hopefully they have something to add onto their fleet.

Taking note with what's said about these kids that pick this stuff up quickly, this is a real testiment to the sim's, the video game generation has proven it's value, this is why they are able to pick it up so fast, that and they remain rather detached to the plane, eliminating the tendacy to pannic which allows them to keep a cool head under pressure with them, there was a 9 year old at the field I used to fly at that could do some amazing scale like flights, I wouldn't trust them with untested new designs, for that takes a different set of skills, but it's a real testiment to this newer generation of pilots and I'm really happy this stuff is able to translate into their world.

Wheelnut

My Feedback: (81)

All very good points, but it will not change the fact that I have better things to do with my limited time than build a plane. I have indoor helis and planes I can fly and I have a Micro-T that I can play with.
Play, Play, Play, not build, build, build[:'(]

Lets say it is snowing outside,
I would rather buy a RTR ski mobile and go out and play with it than build a plane.

I can do this all day, so keep coming with the ideas.

bzinfinity

I can honestly say I agree wholeheartedly with what you have said.

I have both types of planes. I think your current lifestyle and other limiting or un-limiting factors dictate which you choose to go with at any given time.

I also wholeheartedly second the feeling of flying a completely scratch built plane.

The first time I flew my Pizza Box I thought I was gonna pee myself, lol.

micro_builder

My Feedback: (1)

The very first real RC plane I ever bought was an RTF (the original Stryker F-27). Shortly after that
I found these online sites and got into micro planes. I can honestly say I spent more time building
than flying those first couple years. Not cause I was crashing everything I built, but because I enjoyed
the building aspect more than the actual flying (also because even just 5 years ago micro RTFs were
nearly non existant). To me, nothing beat taking a sheet of 1/32" balsa and turning into something
that actually flew.

I got lazy though, and building small was tedious and time consuming, and sometimes the reward
just wasnt worth the effort, I nearly quit flying/building altogether for a while. But I started building
bigger planes, and found it much easier and faster and found the fun in scratch building again. To
this day I love building my own models, now its mostly foam not balsa, but the idea is the same.
With that said though, I'll happily go buy a new ARF/RTF and fly the crap out of it then mod it to make
it the way I want - its one of the most fun things about ARF/RTFs i think.

With all the Micro RTFs on the market these days, tons of new RC Flyers are coming into the hobby.
Most have probably never built anything with their own two hands, let alone a plane, so the RTFs are
perfect for them. Some folks will stick to the RTFs, some will start building their own. But in the end
building vs buying doesnt matter - we're in the hobby to be in the air, how you get there is just
personal preference.

Nick

seangos

bzinfinity, I proudly admit that I am a noob and crashed my ember a number of times. CA has fixed most damage but now I have a pushrod that broke at the servo. Can you tell me how to remove and replace a pushrod on the ember? Pictures of the pushrod look they include some type of splice but I can't find any info on whether this is heat shrink. If so, I am concerned about applying heat near the servo

bzinfinity

Just remove the pushrod end from the servo (they bend extremely easy, and are easy to get off)

Get a pushrod set - line up the pushrod ends the same as the factory one, and shrink the tubing that comes with the kit.

It's ridiculously tedious because of how small the stuff is, but it's pretty easy nonetheless.

Also remember - shrink the rear off the plane.

Shrink the servo side INSTALLED ON THE PLANE. Otherwise you cant get the pushrod through the wing strut.

seangos

what should I use to shrink the tubing? I have a big heat gun that I would use for the rear portion (off the plane) but as you say to shrink the servo end on the plane, I was thinking of just heating a knife (with a flame) and then gently swipe that across the tubing at the servo end

bzinfinity

*shrug*

I just used a grill lighter and passed it over briefly a few times.

Once the shrink closed up I put a small drop of CA on the rod side to make sure it would stay.

Also - make sure to match up the linkage lengths. Try to get as close to stock as possible because trimming those servos by hand for a mechanical center sucks.

It can be done, but I'm really picky about not having any subtrim, you may be more lenient with it.

FERNDALE AIR FORCE

Can I give a bit of a different POV? I started with micro toys, mod'd the carp out of them and then due to a lack of product moved into somewhat larger planes. In my club most started rtf and then went arf and then scratch built and kits. and kit bashing.

Saucer Guy, I take at least twice as long as others building arfs, just to massage everything into place perfectly. And, as with kits, things have gone fatally wrong on launch.

Tim

seangos

hey again bz, I replaced the pushrods and now need to replace the prop. is it screwed on or glued on?

blw

My Feedback: (3)

The spinner is foam and is glued on. The prop shaft is threaded for the prop to screw on.

wing_man49

A few days ago I trashed the landing gear on my Vapor. I emailed product support and they replied to use CA remover to remove the prop and motor assy. The only thing CA remover will do is melt the end of the king post. I ended up cutting the cross member of a new landing gear and slipped and snapped same onto the king post. Then I used Black Max to glue the cut portion back into place. Let dry for 24 hours and the little bird flies like a champ. Sometimes one just has to think outside of the box. Peace all.