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Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Old 02-06-2011, 09:28 AM
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can773
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Default Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Hello everyone,

I managed to get in a quick ground test (as it is winter here, that is all I have to entertain myself!) of the new Advance 30-10 motor from Plettenberg.

This motor is a new concept, being a direct drive inrunner, it should in theory enjoy better efficiency than an outrunner, yet retain some of the benefits of an outrunner by not having a gearbox. The motor is similar in specs to the 30-10 outrunner, 20 poles, 10 turn etc. but has a slightly higher kV.

So on to the meat, my first run was with an APC 21x14 prop, as this is one of the most common prop sizes being used. Batteries were the TP G4 Prolite V2 5000 mAh brick pack. Controller is a Schulze 32.80KA, using the exact same settings for timing etc. as I used on the Evo (ie: hard advance, or high advance...24 degrees or so). Logger was an Eagletree V3. RPM was measured with the tach on a 9Z WC2. Altitude is 3500' ASL, temperature outside was -11C.

I don't have a graph just yet, however the peak numbers are as follows...

RPM - 6500
Amps - 80.2
Watts - 3113

I have to look at the graph to get the stabilized values as the prop blast was freezing my face However the RPM stabilized at 6400.

I am so far very optimistic, as it looks like the motor is around 300-400 RPM stronger than the 30-10 Evo, almost in 30-09 Evo II territory, but with no increase in amp draw, in other words a nice gain in efficiency which is what you would expect. Motor sounds like the outrunners, very smooth.

I am hoping that the forecast is correct and we might have some flying weather later this week, if that is the case I will give it another test in the air. Static tests are nice, but the real tests are in flight!

Off to try the 20.5x14 next, then to get the graphs downloaded.

If you are testing an Advance feel free to post!
Old 02-06-2011, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Hi Chad

Thanks for the first measurements.

Are you also gone play with these RASA 'MAG' props ?

Cheers from Holland
Winfried
Old 02-06-2011, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Nice voltage on those batteries Chad! The numbers look very promising!!!!!!!

Thanks for sharing!

Chris
Old 02-06-2011, 10:12 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Hi Chris,

Ya I was surprised by the packs, they have been sitting since November, and were only room temp (19-20C). I guess the days of cold packs giving low results is behind us

Here is the eagle tree data of the 21x14, you can see the voltage and amps decline, the rpm declined from approximately 6500 to 6400 during the test.

I also tested the 20.5x14, but the results were very, very similar, so no point in posting them. Its too cold outside to get into doing any serious evaluation on the differences between batteries etc.

Winfried, I will try a test on the 21x15 folder after I have some lunch
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:13 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

OMG, did RCU fix the picture posting problem!
Old 02-06-2011, 10:24 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

ORIGINAL: can773
If you are testing an Advance feel free to post!
Rhino 4900 10s loaded to 4V per cell, so abouth a half full pack
Controller Hacker Spin 99
MAG 5 prop. (20*16)
Current measured with Watt's Up

(hacker versus advance with same prop, controller, and pack and under same conditions)

Hacker C50 14 XL (3 years old, 600 flights)
3000 - 8A
4000 - 19A
5000 - 35A
5800 - 58A = Max

Advance 20 degrees timing
3100 - 10A
4000 - 20A
5000 - 38A
5800 - 59A
6000 - 70A = Max

Advance 25 degrees timing
3100 = 9A
4100 = 20A
5100 = 40A
5800 = 64A
6200 = 75A = Max
Old 02-06-2011, 04:51 PM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Hello guys,

I grabbed some photos of how I mounted the Advance. I gave up on doing more tests, its too cold!

I made two face mounts one for the front that bolts to the motor, and a ring mount for the rear that supports the outside of the motor. The front mount is bolted to a thin piece that is glued into the fuse, and the rear mount bolts to ears. This way you only need to make the complicated parts once

The front mount is fully open to match all the cooling inlets for the motor to keep it as exposed as possible.

The pics should be pretty self explanatory.

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Old 02-07-2011, 10:27 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Chad,

Thanks for the report and photos of your mounting method.
Glen
Old 02-13-2011, 09:42 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Today was not able to fly unfortunately. At end of day was able to run up my Advance30-10 with YGE90 and MADCAD prop. The controller only runs at a timing of 18 degrees (still awaiting my progcard).

For comparison I also did a run up of my Twister with Jeti Spin-Opto 99 and EVO30-10 and MAG5 prop using the same pack just used on the Advance.

The combination runs incredible smooth!!! Even much smoother then the EVO, it is really silent. Power seems even more then the EVO. I was not able to measure RPM, but we will get to that later.

All in all it looks very good!

Volkert
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Old 02-13-2011, 04:11 PM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Well I was able to find a nice quiet piece of asphalt today, we have had some nice weather so at least the highways are not covered in snow

I got one flight on my Xigris C1 with the Advance 30-10 motor. I used the APC 21x14 prop, and flew through P-11 at my normal big and fast style.

I also had my Xigris C2 with me which has a 30-10 Evo so I could have some "feel" comparison. Both are using the same throttle curve. For a similar flying style I felt I was not pushing the stick as much with the Advance as I was with the Evo.

A plot of the data from the flight is attached. The first spike is a full throttle climb to altitude, then the rest is P-11. I also attached a temperature prop to measure the exhaust air from the motor fan. The ambient temp was about 6 degrees, so there is a 12C rise in air temp from inlet to outlet. I did not have my second prop on the motor case...next time Batteries are TP prolite V2 5000 brick packs. Controller is Schulze 32.80KA.

You can see the peak current is quite low, and the amps used during P-11 are usually between 60-65A, very good I think. Certainly less than the Evo is normally. Still very early, but looking quite promising!

The motor itself I think it quieter than the Evo, and also seems to me to have better natural breaking than the Evo. However the two motors are quite similar, its not difficult to switch from one to the other.
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:45 PM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Looks good Chad.

I am going to get one to test against my Q80 because I just want the best motor this year that fit's my style. Don't care which one that ends up really. Interesting to me, and maybe it's cuz you had cold packs, but that the max watts seems quite low on your full throttle upline compared to what I am getting with the Q. Maybe if the batts were warmer do you think the amps/watts would be a bit higher? I know my amps/watts are down usually when I don't warm my batteries. Just curious if you think the numbers may improve a bit.

Hope your doing well!

Thanks!!!!!!!

C
Old 02-15-2011, 06:21 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Hi Chris,

Yep doing well! For sure it will probably improve in summer weather. When I did the static test on that same prop but with room temp packs (still only 18C), I was up around 80A and 3100W. It wont be quite that high because of unload in the air, but maybe 75A and 2900W with warm packs is what I am thinking. I have never taken any in flight data on these packs, so I am not exactly certain just what kind of voltage to expect them to hold during a flight.

If I can get out again this weekend I will try to warm the packs and do a similar flight and see what the results are
Old 02-16-2011, 07:12 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Awesome! Looking forward to getting one soon. I'm wanting my New Opium to be as light as possible so I figured I would "finally" give a Pletty a try.

Thanks!

C
Old 03-04-2011, 11:20 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Hi Chad,

How thick are your front motor mounts? Would 1/8" thick ply be sufficient for both the nose ring and the mounting plate attached to the motor?

Glen
Old 03-04-2011, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Hi Glen,

For my initial install on the Xigris I made the front from 1/8" aircraft ply, and the rear from 1/8" lite-ply.

Chris Moon at F3A Unlimited is having the front and rear plates made up for the Advance from aluminum so that is another option. I am not sure when he expects them, maybe he can chime on delivery.
Old 03-04-2011, 01:38 PM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

The aluminum prototype parts based on Chad's design (thanks Chad!) will be on hand next week and assuming all looks good, production parts should be another week or so out. These will be lightweight 6061 anodized aluminum.
Old 03-04-2011, 06:30 PM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Ok thanks guys. I'll be ordering a set when they become available.

Glen
Old 03-05-2011, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Gents,

I finally got to do a quick static test (because its dark and cold here!) of the new MagCAD 21x19.6 folding prop. I used my 77mm CNE hub, which actually puts the prop around 21.25" in diameter rather than 21".

Attached is the data! This prop should be an absolute monster for power, I can't wait to get some flights on it. The weather is supposed to warm up a bit later this week, so if I can get out with it I will.

Sorry no RPM....because its dark and my tach needs the sun
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:59 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Guys,

I made a quick static comparison to for the Advance 30-10 and 30-10 Evo motors.

I made an overlay as best I could of the two sets of runs. Session 2 is the Advance 30-10, and Session 3 is the 30-10 Evo. Both runs used the same pack (TP Prolite 2, 5000 brick) charged on the TP 820 charger, the pack was at the same ambient temp for both runs. Prop was the MagCAD 21x19.6 Rasa folder with my 77mm hub.

I placed a cursor point so its easier to see the data, the variation between the two runs is pretty consistent for the duration. As you can see, on the Advance run we are holding about 1V better for a near similar current draw from the pack. I didn't measure RPM, but we can infer a comparison based on voltage only. However, with the difference in unloaded kV, I made some rough calcs and estimate about an 8% gain in efficiency of the Advance vs. the Evo. Which supports Pletty's estimates.

One day in July when it is warm maybe I can actually try this outside! haha
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:22 PM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Great data Chad! I am looking forward to putting the Advance to the test early next month as well with the different prop/hub combination's at sea level.

Mark
Old 03-07-2011, 05:21 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!


ORIGINAL: can773

Guys,

I made a quick static comparison to for the Advance 30-10 and 30-10 Evo motors.

I made an overlay as best I could of the two sets of runs. Session 2 is the Advance 30-10, and Session 3 is the 30-10 Evo. Both runs used the same pack (TP Prolite 2, 5000 brick) charged on the TP 820 charger, the pack was at the same ambient temp for both runs. Prop was the MagCAD 21x19.6 Rasa folder with my 77mm hub.

I placed a cursor point so its easier to see the data, the variation between the two runs is pretty consistent for the duration. As you can see, on the Advance run we are holding about 1V better for a near similar current draw from the pack. I didn't measure RPM, but we can infer a comparison based on voltage only. However, with the difference in unloaded kV, I made some rough calcs and estimate about an 8% gain in efficiency of the Advance vs. the Evo. Which supports Pletty's estimates.

One day in July when it is warm maybe I can actually try this outside! haha
Hi Chad,
To use the claimed kV is reasonable but only in theory.
As you always say 'without actual RPM values' the data is meaningless.
Also the current draw is just that. The resulting 'pack' voltage is a measure of the 'packs' ability to hold in that moment and/or it's no load voltage in that moment.

Brian
Old 03-07-2011, 06:13 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Hi Brian,

I agree there are assumptions, however I disagree that the data is meaningless. If I was not comparing two motors I would have gathered the RPM before posting, however in this case it is not needed as we can infer an RPM comparison from voltage (since the two are intimately related).

If we assume for a minute that the motors have the same kV, there is absolutely no question the Advance is already a little more than 3% more efficient just based on the voltage alone. The data clearly shows the voltage higher for same amperage, this voltage difference is equal to a higher RPM. I don't need to measure RPM to infer that. Why the voltage is higher, could be any number of reasons, but it is higher. If the voltages were the same, you would likely see a resulting 3% drop in amperage of the Advance run.

However, the Advance is not the same kV, it is higher 220 to 230 to be exact, which I have shown in a previous post that the Advance is spinning more RPM than the Evo. Even though that is no load kV, the variance between the motors when loaded will be the approximately the same. I have made these tests on other motors in previous years so I am confident to make that assumption.

Does it mean anything...I don't know. I would love to post in flight data, but that is just not possible today!
Old 03-07-2011, 06:33 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Hi Chad,
I know the Advance is new, how many flights are there on the Evo you are testing with ?
I like the Evo's that I use but they lost a little after 10/20 runs and I now know they are not very efficient at all.
I am now seeing additional mA use per flight ,ie after 5/600 flights. I hope its bearing wear.
An 80 amp load should give the same pack voltage(under that load) regardless of where the current is going ??, if it does not it's the pack performance that has changed for whatever reason.

Brian
Old 03-07-2011, 07:26 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

Hi Brian,

I am not sure exactly which Evo I was using when I made the comparison, but all mine are a few years old with a number of flights on them. Although I have never been able to identify a significant change in their amp draw over that time under normal conditions. I would say if you are seeing a change something is not right, my experience with bearing failure is it happens very fast, and provides a noticeable change in performance. At certain prop positions you can physically rock the motor side to side a bit if your bearings are going.

As for voltage at load, you absolutely can have variations in voltage under the same amp load on the battery. A small variation in temperature will show this effect. It only takes a 5 degree or so difference to have a noticeable impact on these values. This is why I am trying to compare a point with as close to exact voltages as I can find, as the motor RPM (and thus motor load) is directly related, so without being able to directly control or measure RPM in this case it is the next best parameter to go by.
Old 03-07-2011, 11:14 AM
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Default RE: Plettenberg Advance 30-10 Inrunner Test Data!

So that's somewhere in the 5%-6% gain in efficiency territory! That is big. Think about it. That power (+/- 150 watts) that was once being turned into heat is now out at the prop. More power, less heat and no gearbox. What more could a guy ask for in a new motor?

I wish some of this technology would trickle down to the 8S and even 6S size motors. Some of us guys that fly smaller planes would appreciate a gain like that.

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