Doug Cronkhite

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Apparently, the 2M Osiris was confirmed to be 'very close to ready' at SEFF this week. Seems like we might have another option in the affordable 2M pattern airplane category soon!

papaone

Hello

Good news. I hope she will be available in Europe.
Have you any pictures or drawings ?
Claude

Doug Cronkhite

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Nope.. just heard reports from SEFF that it was 'in progress' and that prototypes would be ready for testing very soon.

wattsup

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Doug, not to sound a negative note but, after having experienced problems with the alignment of the vertical fin on the Vanquish 1 & 2 and the Osiris, I hope they have resolved these inherent problems on both the Vanquish 2m and the Osiris 2m planes. It's another thing to consider if you do not have the building skills to correct the problem. Left uncorrected, you will have a plane that flys like a "fiddler crab"! I mentioned the importance of checking the vertical alignment in one of my responses on the Vanquish 2m thread. Believe me when I tell you, it is no easy task to correct on an ARF. Just my thoughts, Everette

Doug Cronkhite

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I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. It's one thing to point out issues with something that exists, but creating a sense of concern about something that is still in development and isn't released to the public is less than helpful. To take this to a rather silly extreme:

"Better take care today to avoid any falling meteorites that could cave in your skull if they hit you."

wattsup

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Doug, You are wrong! Silly extreme? That's BS! If I can save just one innocent pattern flyer from getting taken advantage of, I have reached my goal. I hate to say it but, this whole game is turning into a situation where the "buyer must ABSOLUTELY be aware"! Unlike you, I don't have the stomach or conscience to let things slide. Regards, Everette

flyboy91

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Doug,

Thanks for starting this thread, I'm very excited to get this plane out to the market as there is a great need for something to come out that is priced to get more people into the hobby. As far as quality goes, we shall see how it turns out, but I'm pretty certain we can get it pretty nicely made.

Everette,

I do not want to have this thread turned around like some of the threads before but before this plane gets here its really hard to call out the airplane for quality when it is not even available. But when I get a final prototype airplane I'll make sure to take a lot of pictures and measurements from the model and make sure its square.

Andrew

Doug Cronkhite

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This isn't about letting things slide Everette.. it's about addressing problems that actually exist rather than creating issues where they don't yet. I agree people need to be aware of problems that actually DO exist, but this airplane isn't even available yet. Focus on what is, and not what COULD be.

wattsup

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No, Doug, You are wrong again! It's about all of us pattern flyers/consumers being PROACTIVE and anticipating the common problems associated with the construction of built-up pattern planes. Andrew, I wish you well in your current endeavor and realize you have good intentions and are doing your best to give us all an affordable option. But, you and I both know the prototype is just that. On going quality control, if not monitored continuously, is a problem that you have no control over when dealing with an overseas operation and it's too late once you've paid the costs and the balance of the planes are put into the shipping container and then into the hold of a freighter. At that point it becomes your baby! I hope you realize my legitimate concerns. Listen, I'll be the first to congratulate your success. OK, Doug, you can have the last word! Regards, Everette

tommy s

My Feedback: (55)

The simple solution is if you're not satisfied with the quality of the airplane and think you can do better for the price you
should build your own. I can't believe you"re griping about an airplane that isn't even on the market yet.

tommy s

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

tommy s, you just don't get it! I know what I'm talking about, do you? Years ago I built, among others, 2 of Ron Chidgey's Typhoons and in the process learned my building skills well. It's not a matter of griping, but trying to look out for the innocent new pattern flyer and trying to promote pattern. I give up! Trying to explain this to someone like you is a waste of my valuable time! Everette

petec

My Feedback: (58)

Everette, your time is WAY too valuable for this discussion so please leave it until you have one of these planes in your hand and have empirical evidence to justify your rants. Until such time I'll put my faith in Andrew making sure things are good. If you think you have flying prowess beyond that of Mr. Jesky please let me know when you are flying at the Worlds to school him.

Again, a perfectly good thread dragged down by a misanthrope.

Now back on topic, I've been hoping for a 2M version since I saw the original at Toledo. Between this model and the Vanquish, we should have some pretty nice and affordable airframes.

Doug Cronkhite

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Really can't wait to see the airplane Andrew! Gotta love choices. I haven't flown the smaller one yet but everyone who has REALLY likes it. I would imagine the hard part is getting an off-shore ARF to make weight.

flyboy91

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Everette,

I completely understand your concerns, that is why I never base my opinions on the prototype for quality as I know the factory puts all there time and effort into making that one plane the best they can, that is why once the factory says all models are complete and ready to ship we surprise them and ask them to airship 4-6 models for our inspection prior to the container leaving port.

Andrew

mithrandir

My Feedback: (2)

OK...well.. it is a lot of work.. but I will take one of the 4 to 6 initial models and review it for you!!


give! Give! Give!... Never Take!!

lol

petec

My Feedback: (58)

Andrew please let us know what your impressions are and the impressions of the others who will undoubtedly be testing the other units.

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

Everette,

I'm still waiting on your design to come out. If this is so easy to produce a perfect airplane, then why don't you just jump on in. Once again, you have criticized EVERY plane that hits the market. I would happily put my Wind S Pros up against anything out there, and I'm sure Andrew would his Sparks, however NO airplane is perfect. Any modifications that had to be corrected took no more than an hour or so, and then it was good as new....I was able to put my second Wind S together in a weekend...go ahead, build a kit to the same quality as that plane for less money....there....that should be your challenge. I want to see you develop all of the necessary tooling, molds, and everything associated with a plane, and then produce a quality composite airframe for less...or even better than that, produce something that will be equal quality to the Vanquish and or Osiris for equal or less money.

I think I speak for about 99% of the people in the pattern community, when I say, if you REALLY want to help pattern, then GO AWAY!!! You think you are doing everyone a favor, when in actuality you are the one who is hurting pattern's reputation. I haven't found too many manufacturers, if ANY that wont try to fix a problem if it exists. Do you really think that once word got out of an inferior product that people would continue to buy it??? Seriously, do you assume that ALL of us are stupid. I can't believe that at no point you received a kit or anything else in your life that EVERY piece of wood was perfect, or you have NEVER had an engine/motor issue. But yet, you refuse to accept that things in this world aren't perfect, and as long as the manufacturer is willing to stand behind that product, then what else can you ask for.

I as still waiting for the equipment list that I asked for previously, since we are ALL doing it wrong. Maybe all of the manufacturers should just give up on pattern, because NONE of them make any money from it...the market is too small. Don't you think if you could actually make a LOT of money at it, that Horizon, Great Planes, and others would be dying to produce a 2m pattern plane? Amazing how all of them tend to lean toward 1.20 to 35% scale aerobatic planes....or maybe both of them are too stupid to see the real advantages of pattern, and how to make a fortune off of it.

The last time I checked, even Mercedes, Lamborghini, and Ferrari dealerships have service departments....I wonder why that is???

And yes, Everette, I did fly this evening....gotta spend every waking moment thinking about my lessons I will receive this year at the NATS....NOT!!!...I have a family and life, and a rather satisfying job with the US Navy helping guys who are deployed. Trust me, I'd LOVE to win the NATS, but I get much more enjoyment and satisfaction out of helping a new guy learn to fly, or the days my club spends with the boy scouts, or better yet, the emails we get at work thanking us for what we developed that may have helped save lives in nasty places on this planet.

Arch

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Andrew, thanks for your response. I think you have made a wise choice in the surprise request of 4-6 planes. You can never be too careful! I choose to ignore the other two responses for obvious reasons. Perhaps it's time to contact some of these sponsors and suggest a case by case review prior to spending any more of my money with them! Maybe I'll start with Futaba. Take care and I wish you continued success Andrew. Regards, Everette

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

Everette,

Feel free to do what you need to do. Either way, I will sleep fine tonight, and maybe one day, I will get the honor to meet you.

Arch

Mastertech

My Feedback: (31)

Maybe after reading your drivel they won't want your money. You really shouldn't make threats in the forums, it's unbecoming of you.

Tim

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Yeah.. sign me up too Andrew! I'll be happy to 'evaluate' the airframe for ya.. you know.. from the 'end user' perspective.

Everette, so far you've been critical of nearly everything, and complimentary of almost nothing. I doubt any company is deliberately out to screw anyone over. But reality is, when dealing with any manufacturing, be it overseas, or right here in the USA, there are always going to be anomalies that slip though quality control unnoticed. All too often people take their complaints here to RCU and publicly thrash a manufacturer hoping to get some corrective action, instead of simply picking up the phone to the company and talking to them about it.

To be fair, Arch's attitude here is MUCH more likely to be received as helpful, and make people feel welcome than yours has from what I've read. Arch wants to help and teach, where you seem to want to 'school' and scold people into your way of thinking. You could be the most helpful guy for 1000 miles in your area, but the way you deliver the message turns people off.

Mike Wiz

My Feedback: (2)

So if we've now all been warned what next, don't buy the plane because you might get one with a problem? What's the solution, only buy top dollar ARF's or only build your own airframes from scratch? What's the lesson?

I don't think anybody expects a perfect airframe for top level competitors at an entry level 2m airframe price.

Mastertech

My Feedback: (31)

Doug,

Arch has got to be one of the most helpful posters in the Pattern forums. He gives far more of his time to fellow fliers than most other guys I've known. We've met twice and he has actually stopped what he was doing to help other fliers at those contests and genuinely seemed to enjoy doing so. He even helped little old me, a JR flier even, fix my spin entry problem.

petec

My Feedback: (58)

Guys, we all know an empty can rattles the most. Arch and I have been friends for years and I am the very first person to call him out when he is off base, ask his wife, but he will help ANYONE as will Andrew.

That being said, can we put this thing back on the tracks?

Mike Wiz

My Feedback: (2)

Ya... I want a 2M Osiris of my own. I wish they had been available this past winter when I had time to put one together. Ever notice how the new stuff always seems to come out in the middle of flying season instead of the middle of building season. I wonder why that is? Anyway, I'll be getting myself one as a step up from my Wind 110.