Nuance
06-25-2012, 05:13 PM
#301
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RE: Nuance
ORIGINAL: danamania
Maiden day.
Squeezed in one quick turn around the onion patch (cornfield actually) between a thundershower and the arrival of the mower and gusty cold front. Quartering crosswinds 5-7. The goal was to see how ground handling was with the stock legs and 3'' foam wheels sans pants in the thick, damp grass. First of all, I was delighted with the ground clearance of appx. 4.5'' from the tip of the Falcon 20.5x14.5 to the floor. With a little up elevator & left stick finesse, this test was passed. Takeoff was uneventful, but I was on the rudder and elevator much more than with the Osiris or 2m Vanquish as she yawed into the wind. Lift off was somewhere between 50-60% throttle to the Advance (straight line, no throttle curve set; med start, med timing, 8 kHz on the Ice2 80HV). The maiden CG was about 275 which I found to be a bit nose heavy feeling in the landing pattern with a quick downwind roll for fun; she took a bit of nose up trim (will try 270 on the next flight). Also took some aileron trim so I need to look into that on a calmer day. The air was not so smooth so no aerobatics or trim passes: made one low pass to get the feel of the glide and one full stop landing which was very pleasant.
Maiden day.
Squeezed in one quick turn around the onion patch (cornfield actually) between a thundershower and the arrival of the mower and gusty cold front. Quartering crosswinds 5-7. The goal was to see how ground handling was with the stock legs and 3'' foam wheels sans pants in the thick, damp grass. First of all, I was delighted with the ground clearance of appx. 4.5'' from the tip of the Falcon 20.5x14.5 to the floor. With a little up elevator & left stick finesse, this test was passed. Takeoff was uneventful, but I was on the rudder and elevator much more than with the Osiris or 2m Vanquish as she yawed into the wind. Lift off was somewhere between 50-60% throttle to the Advance (straight line, no throttle curve set; med start, med timing, 8 kHz on the Ice2 80HV). The maiden CG was about 275 which I found to be a bit nose heavy feeling in the landing pattern with a quick downwind roll for fun; she took a bit of nose up trim (will try 270 on the next flight). Also took some aileron trim so I need to look into that on a calmer day. The air was not so smooth so no aerobatics or trim passes: made one low pass to get the feel of the glide and one full stop landing which was very pleasant.What can I say after five and a half minutes? A very different feeling ride for me, floaty even. Once I got the elevator trimmed, we found her airspeed groove at half throttle straight and level.
Tech notes: I toned-down the elevator and rudder S.Bus servo speeds to 0.19 in honor of the designer's notes. Since I am flying with the factory incidence, I want to get the feel of the Nuance before making changes. We'll see as time goes by if any gains or losses on this point.
06-25-2012, 06:14 PM
#302
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RE: Nuance
ORIGINAL: J Lachowski... Does that mean I get a ride on it at Augieland this weekend?
Just bring the scale so we can see how light the "Airship" is... my blimp to your Nuisance. Will you be flying after work at all this week?
06-26-2012, 04:04 AM
#304
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RE: Nuance
ORIGINAL: danamania
Sure thing Coach! [img][/img] Just bring the scale so we can see how light the ''Airship'' is... my blimp to your Nuisance. Will you be flying after work at all this week?
ORIGINAL: J Lachowski... Does that mean I get a ride on it at Augieland this weekend?
06-28-2012, 09:11 AM
#307
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RE: Nuance
ORIGINAL: Phantom Phixer
Congrats on the maiden
Be at Augieland Saturday, need the practice
Enjoy the new adventure
Bob
Congrats on the maiden
Be at Augieland Saturday, need the practice
Enjoy the new adventure
Bob
06-28-2012, 05:55 PM
#308
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RE: Nuance
Flights 2 & 3 this evening. Wow, time to think! It flies slow and sure LOL. Was very hot, like 90 with no wind, so took it easy and kept flights shorter until I could see how it hacks the heat. The ESC was warmer than I would like so will solve for cooling airflow and optimal settings. Reduced timing from Med to Low for flight 3 which helped, but may go back to Med once the airflow improves. Motor sounds got weird with Low timing but the data logging was on and performance did not suffer too much so I pressed on (logging gets turned off when I am happy with the set-up).
I liked the CG @ 270 better today than 275 on the maiden flight. May even try 265 at some point but will stick with 270 for a while. Nose did not drop right off during the roll.Right roll trim still an issue, albeit a small one (+/- 1.5 mm each aileron).With the CG at 270 I was able to dial out most of the nose-up trim (the elevator halves are now within the profile guide included with the ARF).Half looping figures were easy and predictable. Effortless inverted with a little push after a spell. Rev half Cuban-8s also very nice. One stall turn also quite nice for flight 3, but different at the pivot than my other rides. Will work on all this with friends over the weekend if we connect.
OK, we all like to take some time trimming out a new ride, but if I had to fly the Sportsman sequence tomorrow before the judges for scores, I wouldn't hesitate to go for it on flight 4. Of course, that's not going to happen tomorrow and I have plenty of time to sort things out, however that's my initial impression of calm day performance with the Nuance. Windy days I anticipate it will fly differently than my other rides so will have to get used to that. And my landings just picked up a badly needed point or two, I swear! OK, anyone can score up on a calm day, but I like the Nuance very much so far: docile handling that doesn't feel like it will bite you; but perfectly precise feeling where it counts, IMO, trim issues notwithstanding.
All that said, it is NOT a screamer. If you like to fly at all fast, or power out of situations by converting Watts to knots, this is NOT the airframe for you, IMO. What do I know as a Sportsman right? Well it's going to give me lots of time to think and stay ahead of the airplane in the sequence without worrying about it falling out of the sky. Even with the Advance, throttling up beyond half way is very likely just producing heat and shortening flight times as the airframe does not like to go any faster. Oh and yes, downlines are sweet for that reason. That's it for now. Cheers!
P.S. I believe slowing down the servo speeds in the empennage is the right thing to do (or use slower servos to start with): no tail wagging the dog issues or yaw in need of damping IMO.
P.S. I believe slowing down the servo speeds in the empennage is the right thing to do (or use slower servos to start with): no tail wagging the dog issues or yaw in need of damping IMO.
UPDATED following morning after dialing-in trim to the servos.
UPDATED: relocated ESC to bottom of fuse, raised slightly so that cooling airflow from chin cowl openings can circulate. Worked wonders. ESC timing back up to Medium. Have flown the Sportsman sequence half dozen times now, I LIKE IT! The last flight of the day today the winds finally picked up to 10-12 (headwind): I was pleased to see the Nuance move upwind at a good clip. Perhaps the Advance is breaking in now as well? Couldn't be more happy with a new pattern ship after 10 flights in one week. Great job Mr. Park! I like it!!!
UPDATED: relocated ESC to bottom of fuse, raised slightly so that cooling airflow from chin cowl openings can circulate. Worked wonders. ESC timing back up to Medium. Have flown the Sportsman sequence half dozen times now, I LIKE IT! The last flight of the day today the winds finally picked up to 10-12 (headwind): I was pleased to see the Nuance move upwind at a good clip. Perhaps the Advance is breaking in now as well? Couldn't be more happy with a new pattern ship after 10 flights in one week. Great job Mr. Park! I like it!!!
07-01-2012, 02:02 PM
#309
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RE: Nuance
It appears the the Gator F3A gear legs that F3AU sells are a viable alternative to stock for the Nuance. They have about an inch less rake than stock and are about the same height, perhaps a bit taller but hard to tell without pulling the stock gear and dry fitting / installing these. Right now, I am leaving the stock legs, but will have the Gator legs as a alternative (or spares). They are remarkably similar to the stock legs on my Vanquish LOL.
07-04-2012, 11:28 AM
#310
RE: Nuance
ORIGINAL: TonyF
On pavement I have seen no issues on take-off or landing. In fact, it is very good. I suspect if you change to a wider wheel and wheel pant for grass you would have a lot less of a nose-over issue. I think the narrow wheel that comes with the model is more of the problem.
I only have 20 flights on mine so I don't want to say that where I have my CG is the best way to go. But so far I really like it. When I have tried to move it back I didn't like it. But that doesn't mean if I try it again and combine it with some better throws and expos that I might not like the rearward CG. I usually am not fully pleased with how a model is working until I have tried a lot of stuff. And that usually takes 100 flights or so. Even then I'm often still trying stuff.
Right now the biggest problem I am having flying it is seeing it well. It has been very bright and sunny out here the last few days and my eyes now don't handle that well. I'm having a hard time seeing the wings when flying coming towards me and sometimes away from me. I just finished painting the landing gear to see if that will help. I may have to make other changes to the scheme if that doesn't help me out enough.
On pavement I have seen no issues on take-off or landing. In fact, it is very good. I suspect if you change to a wider wheel and wheel pant for grass you would have a lot less of a nose-over issue. I think the narrow wheel that comes with the model is more of the problem.
I only have 20 flights on mine so I don't want to say that where I have my CG is the best way to go. But so far I really like it. When I have tried to move it back I didn't like it. But that doesn't mean if I try it again and combine it with some better throws and expos that I might not like the rearward CG. I usually am not fully pleased with how a model is working until I have tried a lot of stuff. And that usually takes 100 flights or so. Even then I'm often still trying stuff.
Right now the biggest problem I am having flying it is seeing it well. It has been very bright and sunny out here the last few days and my eyes now don't handle that well. I'm having a hard time seeing the wings when flying coming towards me and sometimes away from me. I just finished painting the landing gear to see if that will help. I may have to make other changes to the scheme if that doesn't help me out enough.
Jim O
07-09-2012, 05:43 AM
#311
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RE: Nuance
OK I got my new Prolog(the sister plane to the Nuance) in the air last night. I guess I'm the only one in the states that has both the Nuance and the Prolog.
My initial observations are that the Prolog probably fits my style a tad better than the Nuance. I have the Himax 210 in it and it's stout.
What I think the Prolog might be better at is flying in a crosswind. It's a little faster and deliberate.
At first I didn't like the looks of the Prolog but after assembling it and looking at it from all the angles I changed my opinion. I think it's very cool.
It flys almost identical to the Nuance. That being said the transitition into it very easy because I used a model copy with all the same throws. So far the snaps are much easier andfeffective so I had to dial down that setting.
The build quality is identical and very well done. I wanted to do it on the cheap but nothing about the plane feels or looks cheap to me.
I even have $28 aileron servos in the ailerons. They are Power HD coreless and digital. They seem flawless.
http://www.servodatabase.com/servo/power-hd/hd-9150mg
Remember that cost to build dictated trying cheaper options. Thus these servos. I would have used one for the rudder but had a servo for it already.
On the elevators I used my trusty JR 3421's. I love those servo's.
The weight comes in close to the limit with 44 ounce lipo's 4975 gramsat this point. I was going to let Brandon fly this at the Nats but I think he's doing so well with my old Integral that it might be a tad late to mess with. So based on what I've seen so far there's a very good possibility that I'll be giving this plane a go at the Nats. The plane is still Chris's with my stuff in it so you could call it a Company plane.
I'm so impressed with BJ Park's designs. They are the best bang for the buck I've ever seen. They all fly so darn well.
Mike Mueller
PS: some pics of the Prolog and the Monolog with BJ Park
My initial observations are that the Prolog probably fits my style a tad better than the Nuance. I have the Himax 210 in it and it's stout.
What I think the Prolog might be better at is flying in a crosswind. It's a little faster and deliberate.
At first I didn't like the looks of the Prolog but after assembling it and looking at it from all the angles I changed my opinion. I think it's very cool.
It flys almost identical to the Nuance. That being said the transitition into it very easy because I used a model copy with all the same throws. So far the snaps are much easier andfeffective so I had to dial down that setting.
The build quality is identical and very well done. I wanted to do it on the cheap but nothing about the plane feels or looks cheap to me.
I even have $28 aileron servos in the ailerons. They are Power HD coreless and digital. They seem flawless.
http://www.servodatabase.com/servo/power-hd/hd-9150mg
Remember that cost to build dictated trying cheaper options. Thus these servos. I would have used one for the rudder but had a servo for it already.
On the elevators I used my trusty JR 3421's. I love those servo's.
The weight comes in close to the limit with 44 ounce lipo's 4975 gramsat this point. I was going to let Brandon fly this at the Nats but I think he's doing so well with my old Integral that it might be a tad late to mess with. So based on what I've seen so far there's a very good possibility that I'll be giving this plane a go at the Nats. The plane is still Chris's with my stuff in it so you could call it a Company plane.
I'm so impressed with BJ Park's designs. They are the best bang for the buck I've ever seen. They all fly so darn well.
Mike Mueller
PS: some pics of the Prolog and the Monolog with BJ Park
07-09-2012, 06:32 AM
#313
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RE: Nuance
Robert I know you love yours and now I know why.I can't wipe the smile off of my face today. I'm really looking forward to having this plane and getting used to it. The only thing I lack right now is snap timing which takes some time to perfect with any plane.
That said I can tell you that up until today the Nuance was the best plane I've ever owned. I've had some very good sucess so far this year in the 3 contests I've attended against very hard competitors. It's a good feeling. Mike
That said I can tell you that up until today the Nuance was the best plane I've ever owned. I've had some very good sucess so far this year in the 3 contests I've attended against very hard competitors. It's a good feeling. Mike
07-09-2012, 08:24 AM
#314
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RE: Nuance
Mike,
I agree. Everything I have flown of BJ Park's I have enjoyed. I really didn't care for the Nuance at his settings. It always seemed tail heavy to me. After playing with the settings, I love the airplane. I was fortunate enough to get to fly a Prolog as well, and I agree. Another excellent airplane. It took some time for it to grow on me, but the more I saw it, the more I liked it. I am very impressed with his planes, not only with how they fly, but also the fit and finish of everything for the price,
Arch
I agree. Everything I have flown of BJ Park's I have enjoyed. I really didn't care for the Nuance at his settings. It always seemed tail heavy to me. After playing with the settings, I love the airplane. I was fortunate enough to get to fly a Prolog as well, and I agree. Another excellent airplane. It took some time for it to grow on me, but the more I saw it, the more I liked it. I am very impressed with his planes, not only with how they fly, but also the fit and finish of everything for the price,
Arch
07-09-2012, 08:29 AM
#315
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RE: Nuance
Ahh haa another guy who flew both planes.
What is surpising about the difference between the two planes is the girth at the widest spot on the fuse. It's 34" vs: 35". The Prolog looks like a Nuance after Jenny Craig but turns outit's not that much.So it's still a bit of a fatboy. Mike
What is surpising about the difference between the two planes is the girth at the widest spot on the fuse. It's 34" vs: 35". The Prolog looks like a Nuance after Jenny Craig but turns outit's not that much.So it's still a bit of a fatboy. Mike
07-09-2012, 08:33 AM
#316
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RE: Nuance
Exactly. I think the rearward canopy and the paint scheme make it look smaller than it is. The Monolog is also a very large airplane, which you don't think of it being in pictures. Having flown the Vanquish and the Monolog extensively, the quality of lower cost airplanes out there is as good as its ever been right now.
Arch
Arch
07-09-2012, 10:34 AM
#317
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RE: Nuance
I agree Arch. We're starting to see some growth in our area directly associated with the new lower cost options. That's one of the reasons I did this plane with cheaper accessory's. I wanted to prove something and make itseem financially viable.
I've yet to fly the Monolog. LocallyBrandon'sDad Steve, Uncle Dave, and Joel Garza all picked up the Monolog 110 recently. We'll have them up and flying soon. They look to be perfect for Sportsman and Intermediate. Mike
I've yet to fly the Monolog. LocallyBrandon'sDad Steve, Uncle Dave, and Joel Garza all picked up the Monolog 110 recently. We'll have them up and flying soon. They look to be perfect for Sportsman and Intermediate. Mike
07-09-2012, 03:44 PM
#318
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RE: Nuance
Have 16 flights on my "Airship" and I'm lovin' it! Look Ma, no mixes! (Ok just the 2.5% downline mix)...
Put 6 flights on the Nuance with a new prop today, the PT 21x13. The esc data tells me that it is a better fit for this airframe and the Advance, more efficient than the 20.5x14.5 V2 from the first ten flights. Downlines show little acceleration without esc breaking which is very nice indeed. Also flew it at two different fields: 3 flights in the AM with crosswinds; 3 in the PM with calm and/or light headwinds. The new prop performed well all day today. It is heaver than the Falcon V2 and I did re-trim elevator (towards neutral) due to the now nose heaviness: not sure I like the resulting CG change but will leave the lipo's in the same position for a few more flights to further assess the feel vs. performance (not a good idea to change too many things in one day LOL).
What can I say, landing the "Airship" always brings a smile to my face as it gently floats down the glideslope to a leisurely landing as close to the spot as my skills allow. This slow and stable airframe will help me increase precision near the ground which is always a good thing. I'm lovin' it!
07-09-2012, 04:15 PM
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RE: Nuance
ORIGINAL: rm
Does the prolog have the same grass field problems of the nuance?
Does the prolog have the same grass field problems of the nuance?
07-09-2012, 05:13 PM
#323
RE: Nuance
ORIGINAL: svrcp
RM what is needed is a little thicker wheel , and as stated above little up. I havr flown both plane and the gear are the same on both.
RM what is needed is a little thicker wheel , and as stated above little up. I havr flown both plane and the gear are the same on both.
The tread of these wheels is slick and 21.5mm wide at the contact point.
F3A/U may have these wheels....
There is a set of wheels that look much wider than the Nuance wheels on Chris's site.
07-10-2012, 02:15 AM
#324
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RE: Nuance
Right now, I have the MK 70mm SuperLights from F3AU. The lightest foam DuBro wheels also work. Just like any model this size on thick grass, 2.75-3" wheels rule. To save weight and improve ground handling, I leave off the wheel pants on all my models. Just don't see the need for them and they eventually break flying off of grass. True the supplied wheels and pants will probably work just fine off of hard surfaces, hard pack, or putting greens; I hear that the manufacturers fly off of roads or streets over there so they don't get what accessories Americans typically need.
07-10-2012, 05:24 AM
#325
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RE: Nuance
The Nuance on pavement is perfect. Both the Prolog and the Nuance roll fine on grass atthe perscribed CG. You run into a problem on grasswhen you try to run a CG forward.
Dana is right BJ flys on pavement. I like Arch have a takeoff condition switch to compensate for thenose tippyness.
Chris Moon is continuing his efforts to get a retro landing gear or have the new models revisedwith less sweep in it. You could retro fit a Gator RC gear into it but that's asking the owners to put out an extra amount they shouldn't have to and it's not as attractive as the stock gear.
It's kind of what were used to with any pattern plane on the market. In the famous words of Rosanne Rosanna Danna "It's always something!!" In this case it's a pretty minor flaw. It beats things like a weak undercarriage support that breaks your fuse in half.
I'm still amazed at the quality of the BJ Craft planes. They are remarkable and light too. Mike
Dana is right BJ flys on pavement. I like Arch have a takeoff condition switch to compensate for thenose tippyness.
Chris Moon is continuing his efforts to get a retro landing gear or have the new models revisedwith less sweep in it. You could retro fit a Gator RC gear into it but that's asking the owners to put out an extra amount they shouldn't have to and it's not as attractive as the stock gear.
It's kind of what were used to with any pattern plane on the market. In the famous words of Rosanne Rosanna Danna "It's always something!!" In this case it's a pretty minor flaw. It beats things like a weak undercarriage support that breaks your fuse in half.
I'm still amazed at the quality of the BJ Craft planes. They are remarkable and light too. Mike
