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Nuance

Old 12-17-2012, 06:32 AM
  #501  
underdw
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Default RE: Nuance

Hey Chris,
Where'd you get the honeycomb material? Prior postings in various threads have pointed to source(s) with CF or fiberglass layers. I haven't spotted the stuff like you use.
Thanks for your postings on Episode and Nuance.

Dan
Old 12-17-2012, 06:49 AM
  #502  
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Default RE: Nuance

http://www.acpsales.com/Sandwich-Panels.html

This where I buy this stuff...
Old 12-17-2012, 07:24 AM
  #503  
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Default RE: Nuance

I will double check that after work. thanks.

4595 is light. I agree. shocked me. several who picked if up noticed how light it was. I believe I used the f3aunlimited 5000 to weigh. could have been the f3au 4500s though.

chris
Old 12-17-2012, 07:30 AM
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Default RE: Nuance

aerospace composites here in cali. they are 30 minutes from where I live and on my way to work. makes it convenient for me. the stuff I used is a stronger heavier honeycomb. I knew mounting the elevator servo on it, it would need to be stronger. I also added a carbon rod to make it not move. I have seen honeycomb flex cause trim issues.

chris
Old 12-17-2012, 09:57 AM
  #505  
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Default RE: Nuance

Is the material used to make the trays this??
http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=426
Thanks, Mike
Old 12-17-2012, 10:23 AM
  #506  
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Default RE: Nuance

Mike,

No that's the stuff in the center of the panel. This is the one you want that is glassed on both sides.

http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=5084

Pat

Old 12-17-2012, 10:28 AM
  #507  
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Default RE: Nuance

Oh I missed asking what I was thinking.
Is the stuff I posted the material for making the panels at home?
I want to get a vacuum bagging system on do it myself. Thanks, Pat.
Mike
Old 12-17-2012, 10:37 AM
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Default RE: Nuance


ORIGINAL: mups53

Is the material used to make the trays this??
http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=426
Thanks, Mike
[link=http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=5084]http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=5084[/link]

This is the one I use in my Nuance and will use also in the next project, the Episode.

I hope it helps.

Ram
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:41 AM
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Default RE: Nuance

Mike,

I thiught that might be what you were asking. And yes, it is the stuff to make your own.

Pat

Old 12-17-2012, 10:44 AM
  #510  
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ORIGINAL: patternflyer1

I will double check that after work. thanks.

4595 is light. I agree. shocked me. several who picked if up noticed how light it was. I believe I used the f3aunlimited 5000 to weigh. could have been the f3au 4500s though.

chris
My Nuance is 4650g with Rhino 4900, RS carbon prop, plastic spinner and I also changed the original landing gear to RS. (less swap)
I think that under this weight it is too light to handle strong wind.

Did you face any problems with this setup in strong wind?

Ram
Old 12-17-2012, 11:29 AM
  #511  
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Default RE: Nuance

with cg forward I havent noticed wind issues different than a heavier plane.

chris
Old 12-17-2012, 09:13 PM
  #512  
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Default RE: Nuance


ORIGINAL: mups53

Oh I missed asking what I was thinking.
Is the stuff I posted the material for making the panels at home?
I want to get a vacuum bagging system on do it myself. Thanks, Pat.
Mike
Mike, a suggestion...

For smaller jobs, a food saver vacuum packer works great. WalMart carries some systems at reasonable prices.How I make all of my firewalls and canopy bay floors, and soft mount facings

Asingle layer of 3K carbon cloth on each side of cross grained balsa for firewalls of gas engines as large as DLE55 isplenty strong enough but engine must be soft mounted....

A single layer of that carbon cloth on each side of 1/8"Nomex honeycomb should be all you need for e stuff in the motor area. Remember to always back up the holes with a piece of carbon tubing to keep the laminate from crushing
Old 12-18-2012, 06:30 AM
  #513  
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Default RE: Nuance

Mike


Matt is right these tools work very well and will teach about vacuum bagging small parts.


http://www.ziploc.com/Products/Pages...zerSystem.aspx


Mark
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:42 AM
  #514  
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Default RE: Nuance

[quote]ORIGINAL: mwoytassek

Mike


Matt is right these tools work very well and will teach about vacuum bagging small parts.




You guys have been watching to much Martha Stewart !

Getting all crafty....
Old 12-18-2012, 06:53 AM
  #515  
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Default RE: Nuance


[quote]ORIGINAL: Flyer88

ORIGINAL: mwoytassek

Mike


Matt is right these tools work very well and will teach about vacuum bagging small parts.




You guys have been watching to much Martha Stewart !

Getting all crafty....












Be veweey veweey quiet....You might learn somethin'

God forbid!!
Old 12-18-2012, 09:35 AM
  #516  
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Default RE: Nuance



Rookie here again

2 questions

Why are you using vacuum to laminate CF to Ply or sandwhich material, what is the benefit over just laying the cloth on the material and soaking the cloth

And how are you doing the vacuum bagging. What is the process, I have never done it

Bill

Old 12-18-2012, 10:05 AM
  #517  
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Default RE: Nuance

Ola Fremming has some great articles on making various bits and pieces for F3A planes, these 2 might be of use.

http://www.ofremmi.info/HowTo/Honeco...omb_panels.htm

http://www.ofremmi.info/HowTo/Vacuumbag/VacuumBag.htm
Old 12-18-2012, 10:07 AM
  #518  
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ORIGINAL: Bubblehead575



Rookie here again

2 questions

Why are you using vacuum to laminate CF to Ply or sandwhich material, what is the benefit over just laying the cloth on the material and soaking the cloth

And how are you doing the vacuum bagging. What is the process, I have never done it

Bill

Vacuum does several things.

Primarily, it exposes the joint toreasonably high clamping force. Typical vacuum in this app is around 22" Hg or around 10 pounds per square inch clamping force.
Clamps with a very even force around the whole area of the part. Not that easy a thing to do with other methods
It increases the mass ratio of carbon (or other) to epoxy. For composites, it improves part stiffness and reduces weight (less epoxy is required)
It removes air bubbles from the epoxy which were placed there when mixing. In continuous vacuum systems (not the subject of these last few posts), vacuum removes off-gas given off by the polymerization reaction and produces a stronger part. For some military apps, this is a must; again, it doesn't matter in our app

Rookie Bill, ask whatever questions you have in PM's please, or better yet, directly to email. I've highjacked this thread enough. Off to other things.....
Old 12-18-2012, 10:52 AM
  #519  
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Default RE: Nuance

Matt,
Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't see doing a honeycomb sheet using cloth, epoxy and the  open structure honeycomb and then hitting it with a vacuum. Mike was originally asking about making his own honeycomb sheets. I think most of the honeycomb laminate is done using pre-preg and no vacuum in which case it would better to buy those sheets pre-made.
John
Old 12-18-2012, 11:36 AM
  #520  
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ORIGINAL: jgg215

Matt,
Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't see doing a honeycomb sheet using cloth, epoxy and the open structure honeycomb and then hitting it with a vacuum. Mike was originally asking about making his own honeycomb sheets. I think most of the honeycomb laminate is done using pre-preg and no vacuum in which case it would better to buy those sheets pre-made.
John
Of course you can. It's simple!There is one other element of course so please think about it and you will figure it out

I don't use prepreg; just too expensive for my tastes. And I don't have a fancy oven to followthe thermalprotocol.

BTW- the last honeycomb composite panel stock I made, used 1/16" honeycomb stock. I used 2 layers of it sandwiching 1.4 oz cloth between the honeycomb and 2 oz cloth on each side of the honeycomb. Produced some very light canopy bay flooring and rudder servo mount. This is being used in my DLE55 powered Delta. I will post photos at some point in my Derivative thread....
Old 12-18-2012, 01:27 PM
  #521  
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Default RE: Nuance

I bought a sheet of the ACP glass/honeycomb and found it to be nearly twice as heavy as some glass/honeycomb I had left over from a Smaragd I built a few years back. I also have some glass/honeycomb I made myself and it's also about half the weight of the APC stuff made with pre-preg, though not as nice as the Smaragd stuff. My conclusion which may be inaccurate is that pre-preg is heavy since the honycomb should weigh the same.

Verne


ORIGINAL: jgg215

Matt,
Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't see doing a honeycomb sheet using cloth, epoxy and the open structure honeycomb and then hitting it with a vacuum. Mike was originally asking about making his own honeycomb sheets. I think most of the honeycomb laminate is done using pre-preg and no vacuum in which case it would better to buy those sheets pre-made.
John
Old 12-18-2012, 02:19 PM
  #522  
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Default RE: Nuance

hi
I have used 2 layers off 1,5mm balsa layed in "cross" with 50gr/m2 carbon on both sides all glued with thin epoxy cured between some thick mylar sheets we have at work and with some heavy weight on .
Stiff and pretty light , used this for servo trays and battery plates
Old 12-18-2012, 02:34 PM
  #523  
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Default RE: Nuance

I bought a sheet of the ACP glass/honeycomb and found it to be nearly twice as heavy as some glass/honeycomb I had left over from a Smaragd I built a few years back. I also have some glass/honeycomb I made myself and it's also about half the weight of the APC stuff made with pre-preg, though not as nice as the Smaragd stuff. My conclusion which may be inaccurate is that pre-preg is heavy since the honycomb should weigh the same.

Verne
Just curious, why use the glass honeycomb and not the CF, which is incredibly light?

I have seen this elsewhere but don't understand what benefits the glass sandwich offers that CF doesn't. (Besides CF being some nasty stuff to get in your lungs...)
Old 12-18-2012, 07:15 PM
  #524  
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Default RE: Nuance

I use the glass/honeycomb primarily for my rudder tray which also holds the Rx, Digiswitch, and Rx battery. My main concern on glass versus carbon is the antennas coming off the Rx. It might not matter, but I feel better keeping those away from carbon. I use carbon/nomex for my motor battery tray.

Verne




Old 12-20-2012, 06:36 AM
  #525  
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Default RE: Nuance


ORIGINAL: VerneK

I use the glass/honeycomb primarily for my rudder tray which also holds the Rx, Digiswitch, and Rx battery. My main concern on glass versus carbon is the antennas coming off the Rx. It might not matter, but I feel better keeping those away from carbon. I use carbon/nomex for my motor battery tray.

Verne







What he said ditto x 2

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