DrMotor

A very important question:
IS THE PROGRAMMING FOR ASUNRISE ICE,& A"YEP" ESC -THE SAMEAS FOR A YGE ESC ...?

Well, the manual for Sunrise ICE ESC is almost exactly the same as for the YGE ESC ...!
Sunrise ICE: http://www.sunrisemodel.com/UploadFi...8319206247.pdf
YGE: http://www.yge.de/pdf/YGE-60-90HV-KK_V4.pdf
(YGE manual is in German -can be translated with Google ...)

AND The fact that the program cards for YGE, YEP, and HiModel ICE are completely IDENTICAL (see pics)
-suggests they all have completly identical software / firmware ...

Facinating ...

Seems very likely that all YGE ESC's might be actually made at the SunriseModel factory ...?


Pics show: 1, YGE program card III; 2,3, Sunrise ICE card; 4,5,6, YEP program card

DrMotor

YGE ESC MANUAL -IN ENGLISH

It seems that MSH PROTOS Helicopters use the YGE ESC - http://www.msheli.com/ESC_dwn.aspx
and the YGE ESC manual can be found in English at:
http://www.msheli.com/Manual/MSH%206...%20english.pdf

DrMotor

AND:
The YGE, SunriseModel ICE and HKYEP ESC: All have a "Continuously adjustable F3A brake"(well, not surprising, as they all exactly the same ESC ...)

http://www.yge.de/pdf/YGE-60-90HV-KK_V4.pdf = http://www.msheli.com/Manual/MSH%206...%20english.pdf
http://www.sunrisemodel.com/UploadFi...8319206247.pdf

They REALLY seem to be completely identical ... -in every way ...
-Their manuals and functions and program cards are all completely IDENTICAL ...

So I wonder: Why pay $300(229 Euros)or more,for aYGE 90A HV ESC - http://www.yge.de/artikel.php?search=yge90hv (and some YGE's cost well over 300 Euros)
-When exactly the same ESC costs $90 or $118 at HiModel or at HK ...?

It's a big jungle out there ...

DrMotor

Hennnig, It might be best to understand some very simple facts here:
-Hacker is just a Re-brander, Nothing more, nothing less..

Hacker is just a re-brander, like ALL the others. Everything else is just marketing and publicity, it is just a huge load of hot air.

Hacker is just one of 30 or 40 or 50 customers of the the very large and very major OEM company called SunRay Technology
That is all it is. Just like Hyperion is another customer, Schweighofer is just another customer, Shulman Aviation is another custoimer, Extreme Flight is another customer, Gens Ace is yet another customer ...

Hacker has played a very large and very very successful con-trick on all of us, it has completely fooled all of us, into making us think that their purple colour motors are somehow different from other green or pink or yellow or black or orange motors.

Very very simply, Hacker just buy their motors from SunRay Technology in a purple colour. Hyperion get blue, Torque get red, and Gens Ace get green ... etc etc etc
All the other 30 or 40 or 50 OEM customers of SunRay Technology get their motors in aslighty different outside colour, and sometimes with slightly different styled end housings.
That is it. There is nothing more complicated than this.
-SunRay Tech is just a very very large OEM company, that makes their motors for many tens of OEM customers -and the basic motor used, under the diffferent colour outer wrapping of each brand, is EXACTLY the same underneath for ALL the 30 or 40 different brands..

-IF Hacker really DID have some ownership over the design of these motors, and its own "engineers" were involved, then of course these motors would not appear under 30 or 40 different brand names.
They would ONLY appear under the Hacker brand name.
-In reality, there are no "Hacker engineers" involved at all, and Hacker has not contributed to the design of these motors at all. It is ALL Sunray Tech.

-The ONLY thing Hacker has the ownership of, is the purple colour on the outside of the motor.
-And also: The fact that their motors, which are identical to ALL the others, cost 4 or 5 times as much as some of the other totally IDENTICAL motors (i.e Hyperion-Z, LiPolice, Turnigy SK3 ...)

So: The "R&D" of these motors, can be nothing at all to do with Hacker ... And it never was ...

The internal working parts of ALL Hacker outrunner motors -except perhaps for ones like the more special Q80 ...
-Are completely and totally IDENTICAL to:
Torque, Z-series Hyperion; Turnigy SK3 motors; and Shulman Aviation FURY, Gens Ace, Common-Sense-RC, LiPolice, OK Hobby Infinite, Pelikan Foxy, Apache, Pilotage Nova-Line, Sonic Electric, BMI Models "Spitz" motors, Precision Aerobatics Thrust motors, Waypoint E-series motors, Viper VA, Boost motors (from Pichler -sold by Robotbirds in UK), Lipotech, MegaPower Taurus, JP E-Pro motors; ELE motors (now discontinued):

There are 25 different brands there, to be going on with -until we find more ....

Silent-AV8R

I suggest we all stop feeding the troll. He has taken this thread way off topic and has passed into the realm of bashing good hardworking people and the products they sell. Check out his posting history, the same rants in numerous threads. Basically we are all idiots for not heeding his wisdom and recognizing that everyone except the cheapest Chinese retailers (HK mostly) are ripping us off.

rosnik

IMO:
I find a lot of interesting info in this tread.
If you didn't, simply I suggest you not read it .

DrMotor

I am not trying to "provoke"any response,or disrupt anything at all.
I am just telling the truth, that is all. Simple as that.
My careful and objective testing of motors is showing completely -that Hacker are identical in every way to Gens Ace, Hyperion-Z, Turnigy SK3, Foxy etc etc
-There is absolutely nothing different about Hacker at all -in any way. They give EXACTLY the same current, RPM, Thrust readings as all the others ...
And all these motorsare all totally identical inside, for bearings, stator windings, magnets, shaft, etc etc ....
see: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11465548


( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
a troll: is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion )

Hokie Flyer

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...490120&page=23

Note posts 336-339.  'Nuff said.

DrMotor

This thread is about a good motor for a 2m Brio plane -E-Flite Power 160, or another motor.
It is NOT about the 30 or 40 different motor brands produced by Sunray Tech.

I suggest that if people want, we can continue discussion of this subject on another more appropriate thread
SEEHERE: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11467398

Thanks for positive comments to all ...

DrMotor

Thanks for this, rosnik, I REALLY APPPRECIATE IT.

DrMotor

Silent-AV8R: I am not sure thatyou have understood at all ...
As I have said before, this is absolutely NOTHING to do with HK or any other "cheap Chinese retailer"
I do not care at all, about HK or any of the others, -they do not concern me in the slightest ...

Therefore, your comments are totally inappropriate and completely irrelevant...

This whole re-branding business -is a MUCH WIDER ISSUE THAN "HK" or than Hacker...

What we have here, is the SunRay Technology factory making EXACTLY the same motor for 25 or more different brands -and to hide the fact from usthat they are all EXACTLY the same motor, they just give them different outside colours, and some different shaped end housings ...
-But inside, underneath the bright outer clothes, they are all EXACTLY the same ...

And some brands, which we shall not name (!), sell for 3 or 4 or even 5 times as much as the others -for TOTALLY IDENTICAL motors ...

MTK

DrMotor,

I've encountered similar resistance from a fewpeople when trying to educate/enlighten them about gasoline powerplants for pattern.

Personally, I like what you are doing and tryingto teachyour findingson the popularelectric motors....I also appreciate that certain folks will be offended by it (maybe feel their noses are rubbed in it). ....So be it, it's the nature of the beast....!

Silent-AV8R

I've put him on my ignore list. But please, look at his history. 106 posts ALL saying the same thing across a number of sub-forums. Banned from RCG for similar activity, and under several different user names.

DrMotor

Silent-AV8R I just wonder: Are you associated / employed / sponsored / paid by Hacker or by Extreme Fllight ?
You seem unable to cope with any comment about Hacker or E-F which might not be "totally full of glowing praise" ...

Also: What experience, if any, do you have flying electric powered planes ?

No-one is "bashing"Hacker or Extreme Fllightin any way -once again you have NOT understoodthis ... Hacker and all the 25 other "Sunray brands" are good motors.

We are just saying that Hackerand Extreme Fllight arecompletely IDENTICAL to: Z-series Hyperion;Turnigy SK3 motors, and Shulman Aviation FURY, Gens Ace, Common-Sense-RC, LiPolice, OK Hobby Infinite, Pelikan Foxy, Apache, Pilotage Nova-Line, Sonic Electric, BMI Models "Spitz" motors, Precision Aerobatics Thrust motors, Waypoint E-series motors, Viper VA, Boost motors (from Pichler -sold by Robotbirds in UK), Lipotech, MegaPower Taurus, JP E-Pro motors;

DrMotor

Thanks very much indeed for this comment, Matt I REALLY do appreciate it. Very much ...
Yes, I see what you mean ... " ... it's the nature of the beast..."
But sometimes, I DO have a little difficulty understanding why people have such a "violent" almost automaticreaction about even contemplating that idea that Hacker / E-F / Hyperion motors and ESC's might be nothing special at all, are just exactly the same as 20 or 25 other brands that are out there ... and that are generallymuch less expensive ...
There'sNowt so queer as folk ...! (a good old Yorkshire saying ...)

Silent-AV8R

I am in no way associated/sponsored/paid or otherwise compensated in any way by either Hacker or Extreme Flight. I do have two aircraft, both of which I bought second hand that have Hacker motors in them. I do not now, nor have I ever, owned a product from Extreme Flight. I have several friends flying the Vanquish 2M and they seem very pleased with the product.

I've been in the RC hobby for 46 years, flown about everything except turbine jets and have flown pretty much nothing but electric for the last 7 years. I currently fly a 2M pattern plane equipped with a Plettenberg Advance 30-10 motor and a 62-inch 3DHS Osiris with a Hacker motor in it. The 2M plane had a Hacker in it when I bought it (C50-14XL Comp) which I recently replaced with the Plettenberg. I also own 3 electric powered helis, 3 smaller aerobatic/scale planes, 1 electric glider (3.2-meter all composite thermal duration plane) that has one of the Hacker motors in it. I have also owned and raced (and set a couple of records) for fast electric boats from 4S power up to and including a few 10S2P powered boats. They mostly had Lehner motors in the, and a couple of Neus. These were boats that were up to 46 inches long weighing 20+ pounds and capable of speeds up around 100 MPH. These boats can dump 10,000 mAh of capacity in less than 2 minutes in a race. Schulze were my ESC of choice in those applications.

Does my background meet the criteria for making informed opinions about electric power??

I have not made any comments about Extreme Hobbies, so it beats me where that comes from. My main criticism of your posts is the non-stop diatribes about how there seems to be a single factory in China that makes all the name brand motors and we are fools for buying a name brand. Here's one reason I buy name brand. When, and if, I ever have an issue I can count on getting service. HK and some other Chinese companies have proven to be less than even slightly reliable in that regard. You have over 100 posts all saying the same basic thing or taking offense when that fact is pointed out.

I'll step back from this now and let those that want to continue reading your posts do so until they weary of them as I have.

pvogel

A little worried about feeding the troll here, but, Dr. Motor, what you don't seem to understand is the concept of "binning" that just about every factory that I know of bins the parts they manufacture based on their ability to meet various spec parameters in testing. the lower the tolerance for variation from spec the fewer parts are produced and the more expensive those parts are. It's true for computer memory (ask anyone who's put cheap memory into their PC and had a POST error 3 months later or suddenly started getting a lot more BSODs (blue screen of death in windows)) AND it's true for motors.

Also, your blanket statements about Hacker motors are fundamentally false. The standard for something to be labeled "made in Germany" is much higher than the standard for "Made in the USA" and while SOME hacker motors are made in China (and are stamped as such) they pass the spec requirements before leaving the factory and then go through Hacker's quality checking before being distributed under the Hacker brand. Other Hacker motors (my 2 Q60's and my Q80-8m) are labeled "Made in Germany" and, are, in fact, actually made in Germany. The Magnets come from China (which has most of the world's deposits of Neodynium) , and the outer housing + X mount are made in china, but the motor winding and stator are done in Germany, the gluing of magnets is done in Germany, etc.

Finally, do these Turnigy, etc. motors have the same level of service that you get from Hacker or E-flite? I can send a motor back to Hacker if it behaved wrongly or if I crashed it and they will take care of the motor for no charge (if the problem was on their end) or a small percentage of the motor's cost if the problem was of my making (i.e. I crashed it) replacing bearings, etc. checking for cracks in the magnets + glue, etc.

There ARE good chinese motors, and they tend to have a "name brand" with domestic service and support in their major market regions. That costs money above and beyond manufacturing cost and therefore the motors cost a little more.

Peter+

DrMotor

I am not a "troll"

BUT: Hyperion-Z, Foxy, Gens Ace, Turnigy SK3 motors; ALL have completely IDENTICAL measured performance to Hacker -so their quality MUST be identical and will be exactly the same as Hacker. These Hyperion, Foxy, Gens Ace, motors are very clearly NOT so-called "binned" motors ... -So you cannot explain things that way, by trying to suggestthat Gens Ace, Foxy etc might be "binned" motors, whilst Hacker are not "binned".I am afraid this argument simply does not work ...

PETER, I AM AFRAID YOU ARE NOT CORRECT HERE: ALL HACKER OUTRUNNER MOTORS -UP TO AND INCLUDING THE A60 MOTORS -are ALL made in China -at the SunRay Technology factory. There is simply no doubt about this at all. Indeed, Peter, you cannot possibly argue against this, and if youtry then that would be very unwise, because you will just be wrong ...
NOTE: On the "Operating Instructions for A60-Motors" -it states very clearly: "Made in China" on page 8 : see:
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...44770516,d.d2k

I HAVE NO IDEA why you and others keep mentioning "chinese motors" ... Why on earth are"chinese motors" mentioned? What possible relevance does mentioning"chinese motors" have ?
-We are ABSOLUTELY NOT talking about "chinese" motors here, as you seem to define it; We are actually talking about:
E-F Torque -USA
Z-series Hyperion -Aircraft World
Shulman Aviation FURY -USA
Gens Ace -Germany
Common-Sense-RC -USA
LiPolice -Schweighofer, Austria
Pelikan Foxy -RCM Pelikan, Czechoslovakia
Apache -AnyRC.com, Korea; & SlowFlyer, Switzerland
Pilotage Nova-Line -Russia / Ukraine
BMI Models "Spitz" motors -Germany
Precision Aerobatics Thrust motors -Australia & USA
Boost motors -from Pichler, Germany
Lipotech -Italy
JP E-Pro motors -UK

If you want to be pedantic about it, Peter: ALL of these and of course Hacker motors are in reality "chinese motors" -because they are ALL made at the chinese SunRay Technology factory ...

However they are not XYH-EMP, KEDA, EMax, Suppo, FSD motors -and I presume that is what you might intend to mean by "chinese motors" ....

DrMotor

delete: repeat post

DrMotor

Silent-AV8R: I will only make brief points, because I do not think you take in what is said to you, and you just seem to carry on mis-interpreting, and making the same inappropriate, irrelevant comments. It is asif you have one idea in your mind, and whatever anyone says to you,it is not possible for you to shift that idea ...

1. If you look at the thread: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11426913/tm.htm -You will see a great many of my posts there are about motors like E-Flite, Himax, FSD, Topband, XYH-EMP and many other motors types. In fact, I am interested in a whole range of brushless motors, not just "Sunray brand" motors ...
Also see: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11215832/tm.htm -where I have done much investigation about ESC's.

2. I have NEVER said anywhere that people are "... fools for buying a name brand ..." Where ON EARTH have you got this from ...?
Consider this: Are E-F Torque, Hyperion-Z, Shulman Aviation FURY, Gens Ace, Common-Sense-RC, LiPolice, OK Hobby Infinite, Pelikan Foxy, Apache, Pilotage Nova-Line, Sonic Electric, Precision Aerobatics Thrust etc etc -Are they not what you might call "name brands" ...?
-Actually, I think you will agree, your comment does not make any sense at all ...

3. I am simply saying,Silent-AV8R:That Hacker motors are TOTALLY IDENTICAL in every way, to the other 25 or more motor brands made in the same SunRay Tech factory. And so: If other very excellent brands -like Hyperion-Z, LiPolice, Gens Aceetc -sell the EXACT SAME motors for only 30% or 40% of the Hacker price,why on earth buy a Hacker motor when you can get the EXACT SAME motor -the same quality, the same performance, the same rate of wear, the same everything ...
-Why on earth buy a Hacker, when you can get these other motor brands for 1/3 of the price ...?

Silent-AV8R

To the OP, sorry for any part I had in taking your thread way off into the weeds.
I think it is clear that the bottom line answer to your original question is that the E-Flite 160 would be a fine motor to use in your conversion of the Brio.

Boogie

DrMotor, I am another one tired by your writing everywhere about those motors. It is not the knowledge you are trying to pass to the others. It is mostly about the netiquette in which you shouldn't post more than one post at a time. If you want to do a double post, there must be a difference in time between them. And you should not post the same info in many threads. That is the main reason why you are being banned/ignored/etc.

DrMotor

kregan, seems like you will go ahead and use the E-Flite 160... However, I have neverregarded this myself as an F3A motor ...
Please tell us how you get on.Good Luck, mate. Cheers

DrMotor

1. It was a technical problem on laptop that led to "double post". One of them has been deleted. Of course no-one WANTS to double post ... !
2. I do not think this info isbeing "ignored". On the main thread about brushless motor manufacturers -http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11426913/tm.htm
-there have been more than 6,000 views in just a few days ... Word is obviously getting around to many people ...

rgburrill

After over 40 years in electronics one thing I have learned is the many, many times the "same, identical" parts are sold under different brand names for vastly different prices. I have also learned that especially in electronics and electrical (i.e. motors) systems the "same, identical" parts have differences in performance. And I have also learned that these "same, identical" parts are screened for quality and perfomance with the higher quality and performance parts given the higher cost brand, the next to the next and so one such that the parts with the lowest quality and performance are given the lowest cost brand.

Now obviously, Dr Motor, I am not saying this is happening to the motors you talk about. I'm "just sayin'".