Notices
Electric Pattern Aircraft Discuss epowered pattern aircraft in this forum

new battery questions

Old 05-19-2013, 07:46 AM
  #1  
vatechguy3
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (11)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default new battery questions

So I have ordered new batteries for my vanquish build. They should be here Tuesday or Wednesday and my plan is to maiden the plane Friday and then go to a contest on Saturday.

I understand the need to break the packs in first, so I would like to do that via my hitec x4.

So what charge and discharge rates should I use for breaking-in the packs?

And after break in, what charge rates should I use?

The packs are turnigy 5s 5000 mah 20c.

Thanks
Tony
Old 05-20-2013, 10:16 PM
  #2  
wagen017
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Eindhoven, NETHERLANDS
Posts: 969
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions

Tony! I am not too convinced about discharging a pack for run-in purposed on your charger. Usually the discharge rate is quite low. So instead for your first charges use 1C and fly the first few flight some lazy trim lines for max 5 minutes, so you don't discharge your packs too much.

Look at the other thread where a guy got a LiPo fire. Check if possible during charging the cell voltage of your individual cells. Are they well aligned? Couple of decimal 0,01's difference is OK but not too much. Also after charging check your Ir per cell. Then after flight before you charge us the monitor function on your charger to have a look at the voltage per cell. They should be pretty close.

Volkert
Old 05-21-2013, 07:16 AM
  #3  
Jetdesign
My Feedback: (8)
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 7,056
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions

Charge at 1C, discharge a few flights with no real verticals, maybe 5min. I was not the best about doing this and my packs have suffered. The ones I treated gingerly at first seem to have better power, last longer, and stay hard.

I'm not sure about charger dis-charging - I guess I don't fully understand battery technology. My understanding was that the first few cycles done slowly help the electrons to bond to what they are supposed to. For example, if you over-discharge a pack, the electrons will start bonding with their surroundings and eating away at the battery (this is what happens over time anyway, all batteries corrode with time). So my thought was that the slow discharge ensures there is no drastic change and electrons are not fleeing for the nearest opposite charge. So to me it would make sense that the discharge function of a charger would be sufficient.

that being said, I'm not sure if there are other benefits/advantages to discharging at a higher rate like 5C or something.
Old 05-21-2013, 06:21 PM
  #4  
nonstoprc
My Feedback: (90)
 
nonstoprc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central, TX
Posts: 2,466
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: new battery questions

For break-in, just fly the plane at about half throttle 2-3 times. Do not have to worry about the discharge current.

I charge my 5s 5000mah 20c Turnigy packs at 1C (i.e., at 5000ma or 5A). It is OK to charge at less than 1C but the charge time will be longer.
Old 05-22-2013, 09:50 AM
  #5  
shepga
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 239
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions

I use a cellpro pl8 to break in my packs. I charge 2 packs in parallel at 1C then discharge the 2 packs in parallel at 1C down to storage charge. I cycle this way 5 times. I have had good luck with this method.
Old 05-22-2013, 10:46 AM
  #6  
Jeff Worsham
My Feedback: (28)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Saratoga Springs, UT
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions

ORIGINAL: shepga

I use a cellpro pl8 to break in my packs. I charge 2 packs in parallel at 1C then discharge the 2 packs in parallel at 1C down to storage charge. I cycle this way 5 times. I have had good luck with this method.
Bought some Zippy Compacts last month and am doing exactly this to condition them before flying. Using the PL8 (w/ long-life 1C charge cut-off at 4.1v and stopping the slow discharge at ~3.9v) with the parallel charging board to cycle 6 at a time. Never conditioned Lipo's before, and have killed a few early so am hoping this helps longevity.
Old 05-23-2013, 09:11 AM
  #7  
smcharg
My Feedback: (1)
 
smcharg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 628
Received 95 Likes on 66 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions

On the Cellpro charger (at least the 10XP), they will only discharge at 1.0 Amp, not 1C (which would be 4-5 Amps). Not positive about the PL8 as Glen suggests.
I agree with most...fly the packs 4-6 flights not exceeding 1/2 throttle down to about 50%. I usually set the timer for 4:30 minutes and land at the timer. I'm usually around 50-56%. Repeat for the breakin flights and everything will be fine.
Old 05-23-2013, 10:56 AM
  #8  
Velco
Senior Member
 
Velco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Belgrade, SERBIA, YUGOSLAVIA
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions



I am charging and discharging at 0.5C for 5 times. Is this OK, especially for discharging? Will this "wake" the chemistry of the battery?






cheers

Old 05-23-2013, 06:23 PM
  #9  
Jeff Worsham
My Feedback: (28)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Saratoga Springs, UT
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions


ORIGINAL: smcharg

On the Cellpro charger (at least the 10XP), they will only discharge at 1.0 Amp, not 1C (which would be 4-5 Amps). Not positive about the PL8 as Glen suggests.
Hi Scott-
PL8 Selectable Discharge specs:
•Internal discharge 10mA to 10A, 100W max.
•Regenerative discharge 10mA to 40A, 1344W maximum when powering the PowerLab 8 from a Lead Acid battery.

So on a 21v pack, internal discharge rate is up to about 4.7A.
jeff
Old 05-23-2013, 07:05 PM
  #10  
Dansy
My Feedback: (53)
 
Dansy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Prescott, Ont.
Posts: 2,925
Received 140 Likes on 128 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions


ORIGINAL: Jeff Worsham


ORIGINAL: smcharg

On the Cellpro charger (at least the 10XP), they will only discharge at 1.0 Amp, not 1C (which would be 4-5 Amps). Not positive about the PL8 as Glen suggests.
Hi Scott-
PL8 Selectable Discharge specs:
•Internal discharge 10mA to 10A, 100W max.
•Regenerative discharge 10mA to 40A, 1344W maximum when powering the PowerLab 8 from a Lead Acid battery.

So on a 21v pack, internal discharge rate is up to about 4.7A.
jeff
If he's using the parallel board with either the PL6 or 8 then each of the 6 batteries connected on the board will discharge at 1.6666 amps for a Max total of 10amps...cycling 6 packs at the time takes quite a while to discharge to the storage value....
Old 05-23-2013, 08:14 PM
  #11  
Jeff Worsham
My Feedback: (28)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Saratoga Springs, UT
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions

Yes, you're right Daniel. It takes about 3hrs to cycle all 6 packs at once, usually while I'm working on an airplane. Thanks for explaining- jeff
Old 05-23-2013, 09:39 PM
  #12  
Rendegade
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions

Ooor, you could discharge them singularly, as the readings from each cell will be accurate, rather than an average.

It may take more time but you can hang your hat on each cell doing as it should.
Old 05-24-2013, 02:21 AM
  #13  
Jeff Worsham
My Feedback: (28)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Saratoga Springs, UT
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions


ORIGINAL: Rendegade

Ooor, you could discharge them singularly, as the readings from each cell will be accurate, rather than an average.

It may take more time but you can hang your hat on each cell doing as it should.
And depending on the charger, can then discharge at a higher rate. Which goes back to an earlier question I don't think we've answered yet- If cycling on a charger at home, do new batteries need to be discharged at some minimum rate in order to obtain proper conditioning?
Old 05-24-2013, 02:43 AM
  #14  
silva916
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: oeding, GERMANY
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions

I personly break in a 2 x 5S pack as follow with the Junsi 4010:
* charge 4 times at 1C to 4.15 a cell
* discharge 4 times at 6C

Charge and discharge at 1C wil not get the chemistry going!

Gr Frank

Old 05-24-2013, 02:51 AM
  #15  
Dansy
My Feedback: (53)
 
Dansy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Prescott, Ont.
Posts: 2,925
Received 140 Likes on 128 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions

Well first I never charge my battery faster then 1C (most of mine are good for 8C+) and to discharge them quicker when new I do them one at the time at 10A (max rate)so 2C or better depending on the battery size.

All that said I'm not sure of what make a battery last longer, I just know what make the battery fail quickly
Old 05-24-2013, 06:14 AM
  #16  
Jetdesign
My Feedback: (8)
 
Jetdesign's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 7,056
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: new battery questions

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...charge_methods

Discharge Signature
A classic discharge is a battery that delivers a steady load at, say, 0.2C.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.