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View Poll Results: Which airframe for FAI
Krill Spark Evo
5
8.20%
SebArt Mythos
20
32.79%
BJ Episode
17
27.87%
BJ Bi-Sode
19
31.15%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

Decisions Decisions

Old 11-04-2013, 08:45 PM
  #1  
Neilbo4
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Default Decisions Decisions

Hey Guys,

I am new to the pattern arena. I have been flying Unlimited IMAC for a number of years and wanted to start flying some pattern as well. I have looked over the new P-15 and F-15 schedules and they look to be quite fun. With that in mind, I am in the market for a 2M airplane but I am having trouble deciding so I am looking for some input from you guys. I am deciding between the following airframes: Krill Spark Evo, SebArt Mythos, BJ Episode, and the BJ Bi-Side. Now I realize the Bi-Side is pretty new so the amount of input regarding that airframe will be a bit limited, but the other airframes have been out for a little while so I am interested to hear your guys thoughts.

Thanks,

Neil

Last edited by Neilbo4; 11-04-2013 at 08:58 PM.
Old 11-05-2013, 03:09 PM
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jetmech43
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either one should do the job, just pick one they are all top of the line stuff
Old 11-05-2013, 03:19 PM
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Neilbo4
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I appreciate your reply. While "just picking one" would probably work out fine, I was looking to hear from some guys that have flown some of the airframes I listed and could comment on the things they liked/disliked. Arch Stafford lives not too far from me so I will be picking his brain with airframe questions and possibly trying out his Episode to see how I like it.
Old 11-05-2013, 09:26 PM
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Mythos cuz Seba is a cool cat!! lol

but for me.. a Vanquish!! (Less than 700 bucks right!! lol)
Old 11-06-2013, 04:19 AM
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Neil,

If you haven't already, see if you can ask for an opportunity to fly a few first. I flew the Bi-Side (Awesome plane). I can not speak about the other airframes, haven't flown them. Not all pattern planes "buddy up" well with the owners flying styles. Meaning.., some airframes are faster and some slower, you will have to decide what fits you the best for the way you fly (or want a pattern plane to fly). I am assuminig you will plan to jump right into FAI, so the Vanquish probably not the best airframe for the F sequence or the unknowns (K-6 sheet). Some of these airframes are complicated to setup correctly, without getting someone to share set up, programming tip and general pattern knowledge. Being a Team Futaba guy you should have no problems reaching out and getting answers......


You way want to look into a Proteus (AJ's design) CAMODELS EPIC or a Griffin.


I was at one time an Unlimited guy, going back to it next year and continue to fly pattern. Archie is a great source of information.


Bill H.
NSRCA 20009 District FAI/F3A Champion, Don Lowe Masters 2000, 2001, 2003


Originally Posted by Neilbo4 View Post
I appreciate your reply. While "just picking one" would probably work out fine, I was looking to hear from some guys that have flown some of the airframes I listed and could comment on the things they liked/disliked. Arch Stafford lives not too far from me so I will be picking his brain with airframe questions and possibly trying out his Episode to see how I like it.

Last edited by AmericanSpectre505; 11-06-2013 at 04:29 AM.
Old 11-06-2013, 05:26 AM
  #6  
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What's your style of flying? do you like to fly slow or fast, if you can answer this question, we can help you pick it out an airframe to match your flying style
Old 11-06-2013, 05:45 AM
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Neilbo4
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Hi Bill,

I appreciate your reply. I will be looking to jump right into FAI next year. I completely agree with your advice in trying a few of the airframes out to find the one that matches your flying style the best. The same concepts apply to IMAC but I think in Pattern their is a little extra emphasis on making sure you have an airframe that suits you right.

I really like the looks of the Bi-side and judging from the people who have actually flown one, they all seem to like it. The only thing that makes me a little leery with the Bi-side is the full flying stab.

I will look into a Proteus (AJ's design), CAMODELS EPIC, and a Griffin as I am not familiar with those airframes. An airframe that I like the looks of but didn't put in the poll options is the SebArt Wind S Pro. Any thoughts on that airframe?

I still throughly enjoy IMAC and will be flying Unlimited again next year as well as pattern. Always liked the looks of pattern planes and how they flew so I finally decided to jump in and give it a try.

rgreen24: My preferred flying style in somewhere in between slow and fast. I know that answer is some what vague but it is the best way I could put it. I don't like flying slow because I feel like the airplane gets somewhat sloppy, and I don't prefer to fly fast all the time unless there is significant wind and I am flying a bit faster to help cut through the wind.

Thanks for the all the votes and replies so far,

Neil

Last edited by Neilbo4; 11-06-2013 at 05:51 AM.
Old 11-06-2013, 05:48 AM
  #8  
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double post
Old 11-06-2013, 06:42 AM
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Hey Neil,

That's correct with both aerobatic avenues with respect to planes, likes and dislikes. I like a constant speed plane and that's the in between you are referring to. The Bi-side is that, as is the Episode. I have watched Archie/Dale fly their Episodes (standard and Contra) and they are very constant, as is the Epic (Big Airframe). The Mythos looks fast to me having watch a 125 sized version fly (preference). The full flying stab should be just fine and it's nothing new and it works really good on that airframe. I was initially concerned with the ligher construction of the Bi-Side, but think that was just me, having owned Cardens for years, LOL.

I flew Masters the first year when I jumped and then FAI the next year and I have been absorbing ever since. I can not over emphasize having experienced guys in the Masters/ FAI community to have in your help circle. I didn't have that (still don't) and it's an advantage to help bridge the gap between both IMAC and Pattern communities and the distinct differences.

You seem like you are doing you're homework, so hope to see you out and about next season. I will post photo's of my EPIC when it arrives.

Good Luck in you're quest.

BH

Originally Posted by Neilbo4 View Post
Hi Bill,

I appreciate your reply. I will be looking to jump right into FAI next year. I completely agree with your advice in trying a few of the airframes out to find the one that matches your flying style the best. The same concepts apply to IMAC but I think in Pattern their is a little extra emphasis on making sure you have an airframe that suits you right.

I really like the looks of the Bi-side and judging from the people who have actually flown one, they all seem to like it. The only thing that makes me a little leery with the Bi-side is the full flying stab.

I will look into a Proteus (AJ's design), CAMODELS EPIC, and a Griffin as I am not familiar with those airframes. An airframe that I like the looks of but didn't put in the poll options is the SebArt Wind S Pro. Any thoughts on that airframe?

I still throughly enjoy IMAC and will be flying Unlimited again next year as well as pattern. Always liked the looks of pattern planes and how they flew so I finally decided to jump in and give it a try.

rgreen24: My preferred flying style in somewhere in between slow and fast. I know that answer is some what vague but it is the best way I could put it. I don't like flying slow because I feel like the airplane gets somewhat sloppy, and I don't prefer to fly fast all the time unless there is significant wind and I am flying a bit faster to help cut through the wind.

Thanks for the all the votes and replies so far,

Neil

Last edited by AmericanSpectre505; 11-06-2013 at 06:45 AM.
Old 11-06-2013, 07:45 AM
  #10  
rcpattern
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I wouldn't be scared off by the BiSide by the flying stab. Works great. Very linear feel and very solid. In a perfect world, it is a much better option than elevators anyway. I'm very happy with the flying stab on the BiSide and love the feel of it.

Arch
Old 11-06-2013, 08:15 AM
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Neilbo4
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Hi Bill,

I have watched a few videos of the Episode and would agree that it seems to fly at a very constant speed with the correct motor/prop setup. I have also watched videos of the Mythos fly and I would agree with you that in general it seems to fly at a slightly faster pace.

Yes, the Bi-side is definitely built light but I like that. For you coming from stock Cardens the construction in the Bi-side probably looked extremely light lol. I am glad to hear guys liking the full flying stab. I had heard of guys having trimming issues with full flying stabs in the past but judging by BJ's history he has obviously thought this design out. I can see how a properly setup and designed flying stab would provide a much more linear and solid feel in pitch. Arch, is there an option to run (4) servos for the ailerons or is running (2) aileron servos on the bottom wing and then running carbon rods up to the upper wing the way to go?

Hope to see you around the pattern circuit as well Bill. I will be looking forward to seeing pictures of your EPIC. When is it supposed to arrive?

Neil
Old 11-06-2013, 08:48 AM
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Neil,

The servos are much better today than years ago when flying stabs were tried. The new pattern designs today need solid centering servos, especially on rudder and innovations like the flying stabs being incorporated into todays designs. I chased my tail for several month with my Nuance, all because of a GOOD servo that was not centering, which led to tracking issues and on going frustration. Yeah, I helped put one together at a the field and it's scary light, LOL. There is a build thread on the Bi-Side, which covers the servo selection and options. I will probably order a Bi-Side in my own colors, it will be awesome for F/unknown sequences. I will have to see how the Epic does first...,having flown the Bi-Side it was pretty effortless in comparisson to other designs.

BH


Originally Posted by Neilbo4 View Post
Hi Bill,

I have watched a few videos of the Episode and would agree that it seems to fly at a very constant speed with the correct motor/prop setup. I have also watched videos of the Mythos fly and I would agree with you that in general it seems to fly at a slightly faster pace.

Yes, the Bi-side is definitely built light but I like that. For you coming from stock Cardens the construction in the Bi-side probably looked extremely light lol. I am glad to hear guys liking the full flying stab. I had heard of guys having trimming issues with full flying stabs in the past but judging by BJ's history he has obviously thought this design out. I can see how a properly setup and designed flying stab would provide a much more linear and solid feel in pitch. Arch, is there an option to run (4) servos for the ailerons or is running (2) aileron servos on the bottom wing and then running carbon rods up to the upper wing the way to go?

Hope to see you around the pattern circuit as well Bill. I will be looking forward to seeing pictures of your EPIC. When is it supposed to arrive?

Neil
Old 11-06-2013, 08:51 AM
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Neil,

Yes, you can run 4 servos for ailerons. That is what I'm planning with mine.

Arch
Old 11-06-2013, 09:20 AM
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Neilbo4
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Bill,

I can see how having great centering servos is a must in pattern, especially with a full flying stab. The more I look at the Bi-side, the more I am wanting to get one.

Arch, (4) BLS173SV's for the ailerons is what I was thinking.

Neil
Old 11-06-2013, 04:04 PM
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they should work
Old 11-06-2013, 04:15 PM
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I'm no familiar with the biside, can someone post a pic or a link please
Old 11-06-2013, 04:38 PM
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Made by BJ Craft

http://www.f3aunlimited.com/webstore...roducts_id=840

I've seen Steve Hannah's fly and it is a really nice looking plane in the air. All of the BJ Craft kits I've seen have been very nicely done as well.
Old 11-06-2013, 05:01 PM
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rcpattern
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Neil

Those are the servos I will be running. The Biside is a great flying plane. Certainly not a bad decision to go with one.

Arch
Old 11-07-2013, 09:17 AM
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Neilbo4
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They are great servos so I figured they would be a good choice for this application.

I am seriously considering jumping on one. You planning on flying a Bi-side as your competition plane next year?

Neil
Old 11-07-2013, 09:24 AM
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Considering it. Will have my Episode as well as a BiSide. I think BiSide will be great for F and unknowns, but the Episode flies awesome. Don't have enough time on the BiSide yet to really commit, but with that said, can't see a reason it wouldn't be a great airframe.
Old 11-07-2013, 10:13 AM
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Neilbo4
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I understand. You have to have quite a bit of flying time on a new airframe before you make the decision to switch. The Episode does seem like it flies quite well. In the poll, The Episode and Mythos are close, with the Mythos slightly ahead of the Episode right now.

Neil
Old 11-07-2013, 11:30 AM
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As I told you before. There aren't many, if any bad airframes out there. Each was designed by someone to do certain things better than others. Guys who don't snap as well design a plane to snap better, but figure they can make up for other deficiencies. It is all a trade off. You can't really go wrong with any of the planes listed. Other than Andrew, I think most of us are limited in the number of designs we fly. I think he flies every airplane out there for some period of time. Lol. They all fly well. Find one you like, get it, trim, and fly the snot out of it and you'll be happy.

Arch
Old 11-07-2013, 01:19 PM
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Neilbo4
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Originally Posted by rcpattern View Post
As I told you before. There aren't many, if any bad airframes out there. Each was designed by someone to do certain things better than others. Guys who don't snap as well design a plane to snap better, but figure they can make up for other deficiencies. It is all a trade off. You can't really go wrong with any of the planes listed. Other than Andrew, I think most of us are limited in the number of designs we fly. I think he flies every airplane out there for some period of time. Lol. They all fly well. Find one you like, get it, trim, and fly the snot out of it and you'll be happy.

Arch
Arch, I agree. They are all purpose built and fly well, comes down the setup and practice to get the plane flying exactly the way you want. Thanks for all your input, I really appreciate it.

Neil
Old 11-10-2013, 07:14 PM
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What are your guys thoughts on power systems for the 2M pattern ships? Neu F3A, Axi 5330, E-Flite Power 180, Hacker A60-7S, Hacker Q80-13XS.

Neil
Old 11-10-2013, 10:06 PM
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Ryan Smith
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I flew the Power 180 in an Oxai Splendor this year and it had a ton of power. I flew Dave Lockhart's Bravo with Neu F3A and liked it a lot. Very strong power, but more importantly, incredible braking and a constant speed. The Power 180 was happy with a 20x13W (originally APC, then Dave let me borrow a Wistmodel carbon 21x13W at the Nats. I believe Falcon has a 21.5x13 that performs similarly to the 21x13W. Something I would be very interested to try on the outrunners is one of the new Mejzlik 3-blade F3A propellers. FWIW, the Neu is going to be my preferred setup this year, provided I can get my act together.

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