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Bullets,Deans or Anderson Power Pole battery connectors?

Old 09-04-2014, 11:08 AM
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STEVE HOSNER
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Default Bullets,Deans or Anderson Power Pole battery connectors?

Hi Guys,

After receiving a replacement ESC from a popular manufacture of ESCs and fire starters , I would be interested in knowing the most popular connectors used to connect the batteries to the ESC. I am presently using Anderson Power Poles and really like them but I have been told by the manufacter of the ESC that they can't handle the load. The Power Poles have a higher rating than Deans but still I see alot of Deans being used. I really don't like Deans for the loads that we are running. The data log shows no higher than 70 amps and only for a very short period of time.

I have always used bullets to connect the motor to the ESC and have never had a problem. So..... what are you using to prevent plane fires?



Thanks for your thoughts guys!

Steve Hosner

Last edited by STEVE HOSNER; 09-09-2014 at 06:23 PM.
Old 09-04-2014, 11:59 AM
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Steve,
Some controllers handle connectors that go high resistance better than others.
These high resistance occurrences can lead to a melt down or a serious motor commutation issue (this can rip out the motor or the front off the model).
Schulze were adamant re connector quality.
The problem with those types with marginal current carrying capacity is two fold ;
- There will be for example; one in ten or one in a hundred that is less able than the average for the type.
- There is little or no overhead, so a little dirt, oxidation or whatever may be all it takes for it to start to go high resistance - once it starts !!!!??

As a consequence we ended up using these ;

http://shop.rc-electronic.com/High-c...=A85045&p=3427

http://shop.rc-electronic.com/High-c...=A85053&p=3427

http://shop.rc-electronic.com/Gold-P...=A85051&p=3427

They are not cheap - but the rest of your model will be anything from $2500 to $7000

Brian
Old 09-04-2014, 01:12 PM
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jetmech43
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Ive bee using anderson power poles for a couple of years now, they work great
Old 09-04-2014, 01:14 PM
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ltc
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FWIW, I have standardized on 2 connectors (to help minimize the amount of charge cables I need to make and keep)

50A and below: Deans Ultra (genuine, stay away from clones and generic copies)
50A-150A: RCProPlus 5mm bullets
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._3_pairs_.html
(thry also make a 6mm version for 240A)

The advantage is primarily zero risk of shorting during transport and handling due to the plastic shrouds. They are very well designed and machined, very easy to solder and even easier to assemble. They are also easy to plug and plug and series connection requires no adapters.

Regular bullets always have the risk of shorting due to the nature of applying heatshrink....no way around it.

The only other connector I use is the 5mm Jeti anti spark (in series as arming plug)
http://www.espritmodel.com/jeti-afc-...-5mm-150a.aspx
(these come in 4mm...75A and 8mm...300A as well)

These have worked very well for me to date.

I am not really a fan of the Powerpoles.
Old 09-04-2014, 04:06 PM
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ltc
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I have no experience with these, as they are new. There isn't much info available on these and I'm a bit skeptical.
100A Deans type connectors
http://www.taildraggerrc.com/new-bla...r-100a-w-grip/
Old 09-04-2014, 06:15 PM
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EC5's here.
Old 09-04-2014, 07:42 PM
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2walla
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I have run deans on setups that pull 100 amps with no problems. I use power poles on smaller setups. Usually under 30 amps. They tend to wear out and and i have had a couple develop bad connections over time. I am moving from andersons to xt60 connectors as they show up on a lot of batteries.
Old 09-05-2014, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by STEVE HOSNER View Post
The data log shows no higher than 70 amps and only for a very short period of time.
I have always used bullets to connect the motor to the ESC and have never had a problem.
Hi,
look here:
http://elektromodellflug.de/hochstrom-st.-bu..html
Gerd Giese a well known german expert has tested different connectors. His measurements are listed in this chart. Although it is in german, you should look at columns 5 (resistance of connector) and 7 (max. continuous Amp. recommendated).
Hans

Last edited by Hans S; 09-05-2014 at 01:41 AM.
Old 09-05-2014, 06:54 AM
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ltc
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Deans has never published a current capacity for their connector. It is simply "the same resistance as an equivalent length of 12AWG wire"

There have been reports of "Deans" connectors melting above 50A continuous; however, it is difficult to determine if they were genuine Deans (silver/gold) or generic "T type Deans like" connectors (usually gold/gold or tin/gold)
The new "100A" is not a Genuine Dean connector, so caveat emptor.

It is also interesting to note that the creators of the ArmSafe Deans based system (Schumacher LLC) indicate that a Genuine Deans connector, with proper wire gauge and airflow, will work up to 100A for a brief time.
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/prod...e_brochure.pdf
"SpecificationsSchumacher Products LLC is providing these amperage limits as a guide to help size ArmSafe® for RC models. But this is just a guide,
you must test all installations at FULL load conditions to make sure that the wire and connectors do not get hot. These amperage guides
are rated with 10mph x 80degF air flow for eight minutes, with burst ratings for 5 seconds provided the average current (including the
bursts) does not exceed the Max Continuous amperage rating.
Many factors will affect the amperage carrying capacity of wire, connectors, and wire harness assemblies such as;
wire lengths, air temperature, amount of air movement, quality of the solder joints, wire quality, connector quality, and how long the current flows through the wire. "

"Wire Max Max
AWG Continuous Burst
14 50Amps 75Amps
12 80Amps 120Amps
10 100Amps 150Amps"

I believe Gerd's measurements and maximum capacities are correct and valid and a very useful resource.
Old 09-05-2014, 07:02 AM
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Been using Deans Ultra connectors but find them difficult to connect/disconnect battery from esc or arming device. Also, they are a real pain soldering the leads to.
Am switching to EC5 (F3A Unlimited has) as they've been highly recommended to me by several. Problem with them is that they are difficult to separate but a Russ Shavitz came up with a great tool to perform this by using a slightly modified snap ring plier tool. He got his from Harbor Freight for a couple of $.
Old 09-05-2014, 07:24 AM
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ltc
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Originally Posted by Silver Bullet View Post
Been using Deans Ultra connectors but find them difficult to connect/disconnect battery from esc or arming device. Also, they are a real pain soldering the leads to.
Am switching to EC5 (F3A Unlimited has) as they've been highly recommended to me by several. Problem with them is that they are difficult to separate but a Russ Shavitz came up with a great tool to perform this by using a slightly modified snap ring plier tool. He got his from Harbor Freight for a couple of $.
Using MPI Deans soldering couplers make it very easy to get proper wire termination on Deans connectors (solder wire to coupler first, then attach coupler to Deans terminal and solder)
http://www.espritmodel.com/deans-sol...uplers-10.aspx

There are also 'add ons' for Deans which make them easier to assemble/disassemble.
Some examples...
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...sets_bag_.html
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...s_20_pcs_.html
Old 09-05-2014, 07:25 AM
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ltc
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Originally Posted by 2walla View Post
I have run deans on setups that pull 100 amps with no problems. I use power poles on smaller setups. Usually under 30 amps. They tend to wear out and and i have had a couple develop bad connections over time. I am moving from andersons to xt60 connectors as they show up on a lot of batteries.
If you are going to standardize on XT60's, you can even use them for your arming plug with this housing adapter:
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...dproduct=54804
Old 09-05-2014, 08:36 AM
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Standardized all my connections on Powerpoles several years back. Have used from 15amp up to 75amp without issue. Gas and electric aircraft. Never had one fail. Best thing of all, don't need the blooming soldering gun. Strip, crimp, snap on the housing and you're done. Cannot get any less painful than that...
Old 09-05-2014, 12:28 PM
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I have always used bullets to connect the motor to the ESC
I do the same, and APP's/Sermos for all else. Never had any luck with Deans.
Old 09-05-2014, 03:21 PM
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I have some Deans and I find it hard to get them apart without pulling on the leads. The XT60 have a little more grip, for higher loads I use bullet connectors.
Plugs with a low resistance are less likely to heat up, which is great. Just measuring the resistance won't tell you what the max current for this plug will be.

Large models will reach or exceed the load limit on most standard connectors
Old 09-05-2014, 03:53 PM
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I have recently switched to the Castle Creations 6.5 mm plugs in my airplanes and cars both, and am very please with them. They are claimed to be able to handle 200 amp continuous. You might take a look at them.
Old 09-05-2014, 04:20 PM
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.
APP's here with a drop of solder "just to make sure".
.
Have drawn 190 amps peak with my Trex 700 helicopter and much more continuously than our pattern planes do without a problem.
.
I do use the Jeti Anti-Spark thingy (150 amp version) so I don't have to replace the APP's.
.
Old 09-06-2014, 12:17 AM
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XT150 connectors are the way to go. They are basically a shrouded bullet and the shroud comes in three colours red, black and blue.

They are also cheap and generally sold in a pack of 15.

Cheers,
Jason.
Old 09-07-2014, 12:32 PM
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Power poles on anything higher then one cell......including inside my charging boxes, and charger CellPro 8 / 6 and 10 XP
Old 09-07-2014, 12:49 PM
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STEVE HOSNER
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Thanks for all of your opinions guys! Nothing could be simpler than crimping the wires on the Power Poles.I really like and TRUST this secure method to attach the wires
much more than soldering. With the bad luck that I have had, and have read that others have had with the Castle 80HV I find it very hard to believe that the Power Pole
connectors were the problem. My close friend John Bentley has hundreds of flights using the Power Pole connectors with his Hacker Q80 without any problems.


Well I guess that I have some testing to do now with the various options.! Thanks again for your help!

Steve
Old 09-07-2014, 05:33 PM
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.
Be careful. Once you get that crimper and start using them, EVERYTHING you own will have APP's on them. They are addicting. Make sure you get different color plastic housings to differentiate all the voltages in your R/C collection.
.
Old 09-07-2014, 06:34 PM
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I have been using HXT 4mm bullets on EP pattern applications, connecting battery packs to ESC, and ESC to motor, without any problem. Never had one instance of open or short circuit.

Had problem with ESCs themselves though.
Old 09-09-2014, 06:23 AM
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+1 for Powerpoles. Whoever told you they are not rated for the power doesn't actually understand electric power. Powerpoles were designed for high voltage applications (600V +) so when it says it's rated for 35A, that's 35A x 600V = 21,000 Watts. I have been using Powerpoles since I started flying electric so I can attest to their electric R/C capability to at least 10S. I have never had an issue due to a Powerpole fault, and APPs are used in basically half of the commercially available 'arming switches'. Actually the guy who introduced me to APPs is something like an executive at a big electronics company and knows a thing or two about wiring and connectors. Technically a proper crimp is a better conductor than a solder joint too.

To Keith's point I have all sorts of stuff setup with APPs and so many things can now work together (chargers, power supply, fan, discharger/flashlight, glow starter, car audio, chargers, alligator clips, etc. They are a lot of fun and really easy to use. There are a bunch of cool products like Power Ports, switches, fuses, etc designed for use with APPs. With the ratcheting crimper I can remove the connector from a new battery and install APPs in under a minute. No need to setup a soldering station and wait for heat, and no risk of a bad solder joint (which does happen to people).

APPs are designed such that wear from the arc happens at a point that is not even used for the electrical connection. It is nice to not be wearing away the contact surface and worrying about when it's time to change the connector.

Last edited by Jetdesign; 09-09-2014 at 06:26 AM.
Old 09-09-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Jetdesign View Post
+1 for Powerpoles. Whoever told you they are not rated for the power doesn't actually understand electric power. Powerpoles were designed for high voltage applications (600V +) so when it says it's rated for 35A, that's 35A x 600V = 21,000 Watts. I have been using Powerpoles since I started flying electric so I can attest to their electric R/C capability to at least 10S. I have never had an issue due to a Powerpole fault, and APPs are used in basically half of the commercially available 'arming switches'. Actually the guy who introduced me to APPs is something like an executive at a big electronics company and knows a thing or two about wiring and connectors. Technically a proper crimp is a better conductor than a solder joint too.

To Keith's point I have all sorts of stuff setup with APPs and so many things can now work together (chargers, power supply, fan, discharger/flashlight, glow starter, car audio, chargers, alligator clips, etc. They are a lot of fun and really easy to use. There are a bunch of cool products like Power Ports, switches, fuses, etc designed for use with APPs. With the ratcheting crimper I can remove the connector from a new battery and install APPs in under a minute. No need to setup a soldering station and wait for heat, and no risk of a bad solder joint (which does happen to people).

APPs are designed such that wear from the arc happens at a point that is not even used for the electrical connection. It is nice to not be wearing away the contact surface and worrying about when it's time to change the connector.
Are you sure about your 21,000 Watt assertion?
Old 09-09-2014, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ltc View Post
Are you sure about your 21,000 Watt assertion?
I agree the number looks high. I checked my math. The 30A connectors are rated UL1977 to 40A and CSA rated to 30A at 600V.

Using the average between the two ratings:
Power (W) = VxA = 600V x 35A = 21,000W (Simple Ohm's law equation which APP lists in their engineering reference sheet, links below).



"To achieve UL 1977 approval for a 600V rating, we test our connectors for dielectric withstanding voltage. The connector
is tested at 2 times the rated voltage of 600V plus 1000V or 2200VAC for 1 minute. "
http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html

http://www.andersonpower.com/literature/datasheets.html
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Last edited by Jetdesign; 09-09-2014 at 01:33 PM.

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