Go Back  RCU Forums > Electric Aircraft Universe > Electric Pattern Aircraft
Reload this Page >

Caelus New F3A design by Top RC Model

Notices
Electric Pattern Aircraft Discuss epowered pattern aircraft in this forum

Caelus New F3A design by Top RC Model

Old 02-06-2016, 05:48 AM
  #226  
Zippi
My Feedback: (10)
 
Zippi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 4,977
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Thanks for the link kdunlap. Anyone else on-board with the pre-order for the new Caelus V2 Lite?
Old 02-08-2016, 07:42 AM
  #227  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 431
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Flew the Caelus about 8 flights this weekend. Had a battery consumption problem that I think I have worked out. Was using an old Jeti esc, switched to a YEP/(YGE clone) esc that allows 24* timing (Hacker wants 25*). Also slowed down my speed a bit. Came down several flights with 35-45% left after 5+ minute flights.. I'm a happy camper. It seems these new draggy planes eat a lot of juice if you fly fast. Last problem that I need to remedy is the misalignment of the horizontal stabs in relation to the fuse and wings. The left side is maybe 5 degrees lower than the right. I think this is the cause of the plane rolling a bit entering and leaving maneuvers. Gonna take some work as the stab is anhedral and has a buried incidence adjuster in the fuse.
Old 02-08-2016, 10:08 AM
  #228  
Anthony-RCU
My Feedback: (2)
 
Anthony-RCU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Ossining, NY
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Zippi - Make sure your canopy still latches securely with the tape. Spent a lot of time in the swamp at my field and don't want anyone else to have to deal with that.

Big G - Tail alignment is critical. How are the knife edges? Sometimes you will see big variations in KE pitch with a misaligned tail ie pitches to the canopy in left KE and belly in right KE.

Good luck,
Old 02-08-2016, 10:38 AM
  #229  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 431
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Anthony-RCU
Zippi - Make sure your canopy still latches securely with the tape. Spent a lot of time in the swamp at my field and don't want anyone else to have to deal with that.

Big G - Tail alignment is critical. How are the knife edges? Sometimes you will see big variations in KE pitch with a misaligned tail ie pitches to the canopy in left KE and belly in right KE.

Good luck,
There is considerable down elevator needed only on right rudder knife edges. I hope this fixes that.

Gary
Old 02-08-2016, 11:02 AM
  #230  
Dave Harmon
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sperry, OK
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by big_G
There is considerable down elevator needed only on right rudder knife edges. I hope this fixes that.

Gary
Try moving the c/g more forward....see Triangle Trimming by Brian Hebert.

Last edited by Dave Harmon; 02-08-2016 at 11:27 AM.
Old 02-08-2016, 11:06 AM
  #231  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 431
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Dave Harmon
Try moving the c/g more aft....see Triangle Trimming by Brian Hebert.
DTDT....I can try more, but rolling to inverted does not take much down elevator. Not carrying any elevator trim. Wing incidence is 1*, stab at 0*.

Thanks guys for your inputs.
Old 02-08-2016, 11:17 AM
  #232  
Dave Harmon
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sperry, OK
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by big_G
DTDT....I can try more, but rolling to inverted does not take much down elevator. Not carrying any elevator trim. Wing incidence is 1*, stab at 0*.

Thanks guys for your inputs.
I don't know what DTDT means but you can add more expo only on down elevator to make the elevator less sensitive when inverted.
Your symptom is right out of Triangle Trimming....move the battery forward at least 1/4" to make a good size change and re-trim the elevator and add down expo if needed.
I'll bet you like it a lot better. Keep playing around with the battery location and it will come right to you.
Your incidences look to be in range...don't see a problem there.
As far as the tilted stab.....I'm not sure it will make a big difference if it is not exactly correct.
I've had airplanes straight and tilted a bit and never noticed a difference.
Now if that was a free flight airplane....oh yeah....the free flight would turn towards the high stab in the glide but no affect on the power climb to altitude.
I wouldn't be concerned about the stab at this point.

Edit....I misread your post....you should be moving the battery forward.

Last edited by Dave Harmon; 02-08-2016 at 11:24 AM.
Old 02-08-2016, 11:25 AM
  #233  
Dave Harmon
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sperry, OK
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Dave Harmon
I don't know what DTDT means but you can add more expo only on down elevator to make the elevator less sensitive when inverted.
Your symptom is right out of Triangle Trimming....move the battery forward at least 1/4" to make a good size change and re-trim the elevator and add down expo if needed.
I'll bet you like it a lot better. Keep playing around with the battery location and it will come right to you.
Your incidences look to be in range...don't see a problem there.
As far as the tilted stab.....I'm not sure it will make a big difference if it is not exactly correct.
I've had airplanes straight and tilted a bit and never noticed a difference.
Now if that was a free flight airplane....oh yeah....the free flight would turn towards the high stab in the glide but no affect on the power climb to altitude.
I wouldn't be concerned about the stab at this point.

Edit....I misread your post....you should be moving the battery forward.
See edited post above.
Old 02-08-2016, 12:21 PM
  #234  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 431
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Dave Harmon
See edited post above.
Should have been BTDT...been there, done that. I've moved the cg +/- about 1 inch from the recommended range. Not opposed to further experimentation. Moving the cg didn't seem to affect the pull to canopy in right rudder knife edge. I already have more expo on down elevator. Thanks.
Old 02-08-2016, 01:27 PM
  #235  
Zippi
My Feedback: (10)
 
Zippi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 4,977
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Anthony,
The new Caelus V2 Lite now has one canopy latch on top of the canopy. Hope they added some strong magnets.
Old 02-08-2016, 02:09 PM
  #236  
kdunlap
My Feedback: (12)
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: McLean, VA
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I had a nationally known pattern pilot trim the airplane for me a couple of weekends ago. It flies like a new plane. Anyways here's the current setup.

Wing +1.0
T-Can +0.2
Spektrum Mixes
Mix 1: Throttle to down elevator -13% to fix pull to canopy in down lines. -70% offset
Mix 2: L Rudder to up elevator 17%, R rudder to up elevator 13%
Mix 3: L rudder to Right aileron 6%
Mix 4: Throttle to R aileron 1%

Anyways.. the important takeaways for me after us playing with the trim, CG, and batteries.
-CG aft of the rear screws on the canopy latches doesn't change a thing
-Moving CG forward from the aft screws hurts things.
-+1.0 for wing is fine
-factory engine thrust setting is fine
-Tcan incidence is mostly irrelevant. Just trim around where ever you have it set.
-light batteries (4500mah) make the airplane fly worse. Heavier batteries (5000mah) are better
-you need multiple mixes on this plane and have to fix the airplane through the mixes.
-Airplane needs at least 14 degrees of movement on the ailerons. expo to taste
-It does not snap well, even with the DTFS wings

Knife edge is excellent. The right aileron to throttle helps as well when you add power.
Old 02-08-2016, 04:33 PM
  #237  
Dave Harmon
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sperry, OK
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by big_G
Should have been BTDT...been there, done that. I've moved the cg +/- about 1 inch from the recommended range. Not opposed to further experimentation. Moving the cg didn't seem to affect the pull to canopy in right rudder knife edge. I already have more expo on down elevator. Thanks.
Many guys in other parts of the world like to fly extremely tail heavy and you might be at THEIR recommended point.
Try moving it a LOT fwd from where it is now to see if you can make a change.
Tail heavy airplanes can do strange things.
On my Essence I can tell a difference if I move the pack 1/4" from where it is now....if I move it to the rear and retrim the elevator....it wants to go towards the belly slightly....move it forward from its original location and retrim the elevator....it wants to go towards the canopy slightly.
This means that the battery is at the teeter point regarding performance of the airplane so it can be flown without a bunch of mixes.
I don't think you are anywhere near the teeter point...yet.
Once you find that point you wont believe how well it will fly....a lot of other things will improve too.
As kdunlap pointed out....heavier batteries make it better....ie..makes the plane more nose heavy.

Last edited by Dave Harmon; 02-08-2016 at 04:41 PM.
Old 02-11-2016, 09:53 AM
  #238  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 431
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Replacing the Hacker A60 7sv2 (595 grams, with a Hi-Max 6330 pro (556 grams) tonight. Will be an interesting comparison. If any of you guys are using the Hi-Max...what timing did you settle on??...Thanks, Gary
Old 02-12-2016, 10:35 AM
  #239  
Zippi
My Feedback: (10)
 
Zippi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 4,977
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I will be running the Falcon 3 bladed 20x12.5 prop on the Himax 6330-210 motor with the CC 80A HV ESC. I'm going to start out with the default but I might have to play around with the timing. Unless, someone is already running this prop and can shed a little light on what timing worked out.
Old 02-14-2016, 05:00 PM
  #240  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 431
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Straightened out the crooked stab....vertical pulls from level flight are now almost flawless. I take full responsibility for any course deviations...lol. Now if I can tweak the esc braking a bit more. The Throttle tech works great. I will enjoy competing in Intermediate class this spring.

Last edited by big_G; 02-14-2016 at 05:02 PM.
Old 02-15-2016, 08:44 AM
  #241  
vatechguy3
My Feedback: (11)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Dave Harmon
Many guys in other parts of the world like to fly extremely tail heavy and you might be at THEIR recommended point.
Try moving it a LOT fwd from where it is now to see if you can make a change.
Tail heavy airplanes can do strange things.
On my Essence I can tell a difference if I move the pack 1/4" from where it is now....if I move it to the rear and retrim the elevator....it wants to go towards the belly slightly....move it forward from its original location and retrim the elevator....it wants to go towards the canopy slightly.
This means that the battery is at the teeter point regarding performance of the airplane so it can be flown without a bunch of mixes.
I don't think you are anywhere near the teeter point...yet.
Once you find that point you wont believe how well it will fly....a lot of other things will improve too.
As kdunlap pointed out....heavier batteries make it better....ie..makes the plane more nose heavy.
What balance point are you using to see this effect?

Thanks
Tony
Old 02-15-2016, 08:45 AM
  #242  
vatechguy3
My Feedback: (11)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by big_G
Replacing the Hacker A60 7sv2 (595 grams, with a Hi-Max 6330 pro (556 grams) tonight. Will be an interesting comparison. If any of you guys are using the Hi-Max...what timing did you settle on??...Thanks, Gary
Why are you switching motors?

Tony
Old 02-15-2016, 09:38 AM
  #243  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 431
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by vatechguy3
Why are you switching motors?

Tony
1: I burned up the old Hi-max 6330 in my Vanquish, so I got a new Hi-max 6330 Pro for the Caelus and put the Hacker in the Vanquish. The Hi-max is rated the same watts and kv as the Hacker, but does not have the same pull as the Hi-max. Don't know why, but facts don't lie.

2: the Caelus came out about 150 grams over weight, so between the carbon prop and the lower weight Hi-max, I'll be at the limit. Vertical performance this weekend was outstanding. Motor rear shaft (hottest point I could find) was at 150 degrees F.
Old 02-15-2016, 10:27 AM
  #244  
Dave Harmon
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sperry, OK
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by vatechguy3
What balance point are you using to see this effect?

Thanks
Tony
I don't know....
I am like Tony Frak in this regard.....I get it flying properly by moving the battery back and forth.
I don't try to determine what the c/g is or try to fly it to the mfgrs recommended c/g.
If you are using rudder>elevator and/or rudder>aileron mixers....turn off the mixers (assign to a switch except the throt>elev mixer for the downline) and start by moving the battery forward 1" at a time until it flies KE without going to the canopy or belly or any roll-coupling. You will need to re-trim the elevator after each time you move the battery.
Then move the battery to the rear in small amounts like1/4" at a time until you need the mixers again.
Then move it fwd to the previous location where it flew correctly without mixers.
This is the spot.
Now you can re-adjust the throws and expo for the stick feel you like....gotta get the correct c/g first though..

If you have not tried this method.....you will be amazed at how sensitive the flight characteristics are to the c/g placement.
I have been doing this a long....loooong time and 'I was shocked....shocked I tell you'....at what such a small change in c/g will make.

Last edited by Dave Harmon; 02-15-2016 at 10:29 AM.
Old 02-15-2016, 03:57 PM
  #245  
vatechguy3
My Feedback: (11)
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Smithfield, VA
Posts: 1,056
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

How much push on the elevator is needed when you fly inverted?

I have also used inverted flight and 45 lines to determine cg.

Tony
Old 02-15-2016, 05:50 PM
  #246  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 431
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by vatechguy3
How much push on the elevator is needed when you fly inverted?

I have also used inverted flight and 45 lines to determine cg.

Tony
If you are addressing me....inverted flight required a modest amount of down...a roll to inverted after a 45* up-line shows a gentle drop out. The 1/2 rolls opposed in Intermediate are easy....not much bobbing. Directional stability is great...no "hunting" in pitch. My gut tells me the c/g is close, k/e flight tells me otherwise.
Old 02-15-2016, 09:32 PM
  #247  
Dave Harmon
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sperry, OK
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by vatechguy3
How much push on the elevator is needed when you fly inverted?

I have also used inverted flight and 45 lines to determine cg.

Tony
It depends on your elevator sensitivity. The flying stab on the Essence handles a bit differently than a standard stab/elevator config. I think I like it better.
Some guys like very little push...I like a tad more than that....I always set the elevator throws equal...then tune the up and down expo separately to what feels good regardless of the c/g.
Spins may require a different elevator rate.

I don't use the 45 degree lines to determine the cg.
Once you find the sweet spot for the c/g....the airplane will handle much better....no roll coupling, no KE problems...better directional stability, snaps stop instantly....predictable landings...set the elevator stick for the proper decent and hold it there...then fly the throttle to the runway.
All this is of course assuming that the wing incidence is the same as it came from the mfgr.

Last edited by Dave Harmon; 02-15-2016 at 09:35 PM.
Old 02-16-2016, 09:07 AM
  #248  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 431
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Dave Harmon
Many guys in other parts of the world like to fly extremely tail heavy and you might be at THEIR recommended point.
Try moving it a LOT fwd from where it is now to see if you can make a change.
Tail heavy airplanes can do strange things.
On my Essence I can tell a difference if I move the pack 1/4" from where it is now....if I move it to the rear and retrim the elevator....it wants to go towards the belly slightly....move it forward from its original location and retrim the elevator....it wants to go towards the canopy slightly.
This means that the battery is at the teeter point regarding performance of the airplane so it can be flown without a bunch of mixes.
I don't think you are anywhere near the teeter point...yet.
Once you find that point you wont believe how well it will fly....a lot of other things will improve too.
As kdunlap pointed out....heavier batteries make it better....ie..makes the plane more nose heavy.
Don't you mean aft?...reading Bryans' Triangulation chart...pull to canopy in k/e needs a more rearward c/g. I'll move it some more this weekend and report findings.

Gary
Old 02-16-2016, 03:05 PM
  #249  
Dave Harmon
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sperry, OK
Posts: 689
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Arrrrrgh.....I am working with someone else besides you and I got my wires crossed.
Yes...move the battery aft....sorry bout' that!
Old 02-16-2016, 05:25 PM
  #250  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 431
Received 25 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Dave Harmon
Arrrrrgh.....I am working with someone else besides you and I got my wires crossed.
Yes...move the battery aft....sorry bout' that!
No problem.....easy to do with many posting on same thread.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.