2019 F3a WC results so far......
08-13-2019, 12:48 AM
#26
Zeeb, I don't agree with your statement. Electric vs. glow had nothing to do with it and we (Europeans) do not hate Americans. The Team USA members are all very nice and highly respected in the F3A family. Stefan Kaiser is a great pilot and has been on the top for many years. He is from Liechtenstein, not Lithuania. 
I was there and saw him fly. The 4th position was a well deserved one.
That said, there seems to be an oddity in the normalization. At least two independent calculation show that Joseph should have possibly been in the finals. It will be interesting to see what happens and if there is a logical explanation.
I was there and saw him fly. The 4th position was a well deserved one.That said, there seems to be an oddity in the normalization. At least two independent calculation show that Joseph should have possibly been in the finals. It will be interesting to see what happens and if there is a logical explanation.
Last edited by FinnSpeed; 08-13-2019 at 01:05 AM.
08-13-2019, 01:06 AM
#27
Zeeb,
You cant possibly believe that ????
There were 12 European Judges and 8 non European, to believe the 12 European judges conspired against the US is pure fantasy and disrespectful.
Stefan Kaiser is from Liechtenstein not Lithuania, his country is very small but has a very good F3A pedigree, Wolfgang and Roland Matt come from there.
Also, if Brian is right (and the numbers suggest he is) then the beneficiary of the "error" was Koji Suzuki from Japan, so does that make it positive European bias towards Japan !!
Steve
You cant possibly believe that ????
There were 12 European Judges and 8 non European, to believe the 12 European judges conspired against the US is pure fantasy and disrespectful.
Stefan Kaiser is from Liechtenstein not Lithuania, his country is very small but has a very good F3A pedigree, Wolfgang and Roland Matt come from there.
Also, if Brian is right (and the numbers suggest he is) then the beneficiary of the "error" was Koji Suzuki from Japan, so does that make it positive European bias towards Japan !!
Steve
08-13-2019, 04:05 AM
#28
My Feedback: (121)
Were the calculations done by hand or a computerized scoring algorithm? Possible minor flaw in the code?
Judging bias would have shown up in the raw scores. Back in the '90s there was a Japanese judge at the WC who gave all the Japanese pilots all 10s for every maneuver (okay maybe slightly exaggerated, but there was a significant bias).
Judging bias would have shown up in the raw scores. Back in the '90s there was a Japanese judge at the WC who gave all the Japanese pilots all 10s for every maneuver (okay maybe slightly exaggerated, but there was a significant bias).
08-13-2019, 06:07 AM
#29
They used Notauscore and Notaumatic judge terminals. The Notauscore program has had the new normalization from the start so it should be able to apply it correctly. Personally, I suppose there has been some sort of user error (parameter setting?) or underlying rule in the FAI sporting code that has caused this. I would like to see the exact point in the sporting code though...
TBL algorithm was used all the time and I don't think anyone is questioning the raw scores and/or applying the TBL to those. If there is an error, I'm quite sure it is a pure accident, not an attempt to affect the results knowingly.
Judging is a complex matter in competitions like these, especially with so many pilots. It is very hard to keep your judging scale steady during the day under changing weather, lighting conditions, fatigue and hunger etc. I have some experience of judging F3A myself.
BTW, If you are interested in the raw scores, they are all available to download at the contest web site.
TBL algorithm was used all the time and I don't think anyone is questioning the raw scores and/or applying the TBL to those. If there is an error, I'm quite sure it is a pure accident, not an attempt to affect the results knowingly.
Judging is a complex matter in competitions like these, especially with so many pilots. It is very hard to keep your judging scale steady during the day under changing weather, lighting conditions, fatigue and hunger etc. I have some experience of judging F3A myself.
BTW, If you are interested in the raw scores, they are all available to download at the contest web site.
Last edited by FinnSpeed; 08-13-2019 at 06:12 AM.
08-13-2019, 06:39 AM
#30
Hi,
I think it's a simple mistake - copy & paste type error.
Likely a template (or formula set) from a smaller, previously run or test run, comp that got left in the scoring computer semi final template by mistake, eg a comp with 7 or 8 pilots in the semi.
But it got past far too many people and nobody spotted, or objected to, it. To me it was very obvious.
The normalising to the top 50% is just messy math.
If normalised to the best then you get one score or tied best scores @1000 and the rest down from that.
Simple is best.
Brian
I think it's a simple mistake - copy & paste type error.
Likely a template (or formula set) from a smaller, previously run or test run, comp that got left in the scoring computer semi final template by mistake, eg a comp with 7 or 8 pilots in the semi.
But it got past far too many people and nobody spotted, or objected to, it. To me it was very obvious.
The normalising to the top 50% is just messy math.
If normalised to the best then you get one score or tied best scores @1000 and the rest down from that.
Simple is best.
Brian
08-15-2019, 10:08 PM
#32
Best three final placings of your team added together, any combination of junior or senior counts. Lowest score wins. Title defenders are not included.
If you have less than three member team then your team is ranked below the three or greater teams. One member teams are ranked below two member teams.
Chad
08-16-2019, 12:34 AM
#33
BTW, the little mess with normalization is now "Case closed". The jury has sent a letter of apology to the person most affected. I heard this from a (very) reliable source. The prelim results were indeed incorrectly normalized when counting the semifinals results.
08-16-2019, 01:03 AM
#34
Thanks for the update.
That is good to hear..
Again, I'm sure it was just a simple mistake, but it being so fundamental to the event (a World Championship) and actually deciding who got into the final one would think a double check would have been in place !!??
By chance only one person lost a Finals place and one got in who should not have. However it could easily have been two or three each way as there were 7 of the top 15 given in the wrong Semi-final placing !!!
Besides it was obvious at just a glance.
Pity really.
Brian
08-18-2019, 01:23 AM
#35
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Hi Mavros
Best three final placings of your team added together, any combination of junior or senior counts. Lowest score wins. Title defenders are not included.
If you have less than three member team then your team is ranked below the three or greater teams. One member teams are ranked below two member teams.
Chad
