Notices
Electric Pattern Aircraft Discuss epowered pattern aircraft in this forum

AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Old 10-13-2005, 07:00 AM
  #26  
lukedodd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hi Guys,

I am new to this forum how can I post the spreadsheet?

luke
Old 10-13-2005, 07:26 AM
  #27  
patternflyer1
My Feedback: (11)
 
patternflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Luke, I didn't get the spreadsheet but would be very interested in looking at it.
[email protected] is my email.
Also, are they selling the f3a motor over there?
So it's twice the price.
Almost might as well go with the hacker then except for the gearbox issue.

I'm not quite at the motor selection stage yet. Almost though.
Also what altitude are you at? I am at sea level. So the 5330/18 hasn't been very efficient here. Lots of power though. From what I here.
Thanks,

Chris
Old 10-13-2005, 08:31 AM
  #28  
can773
My Feedback: (1)
 
can773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 2,286
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hi Luke

Your rpm numbers on the 20x11 are nearly 800 more than claimed by Axi on that prop, do you know your current draw? Axi is claiming 84A on that prop at 6080 RPM.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless-axi5330.htm

According to that chart, the Axi will spin a 20x13 @ 5780 rpm and 91A, my Plett 30-10 did that prop at 6050 rpm and 52A.

You should be able to attach your spreadsheet by changing the file extension to a *.jpg and uploading it, then we can save it to disk change the extension back to *.xls and open in Excel I am curious to see your sheet as well.
Old 10-13-2005, 10:47 AM
  #29  
ExFokkerFlyer
My Feedback: (4)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 751
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

In my experience with at least the AXI 5330/18, the numbers Hobby Lobby posts are conservative at best and are not wholly accurate. We ran an /18 with an APC 22x12 at 6500 and 89 amps. Of course, this was done at 5000 ft, so that definitely had a lot to do with it... but by going by that chart, performance like this doesn't appear to be possible at any altitude. At sea level, I don't think I would try this set up.
Old 10-13-2005, 10:59 AM
  #30  
Kolsso12
Member
 
Kolsso12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Gothenburg, SWEDEN
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

I have a CA Eclipse and I will use an outrunner. I have good experience of Plettenberg in my smaller 40-size planes. I am very interested of Plettenberg 25-13 and 30-10. AXI and Cyclon F3A is also an alternative. I have note decide which motor I shall by.

If possible, I would like to receive a copy of that spreadsheet as well.

Best regards,
Kristian
Old 10-14-2005, 12:06 AM
  #31  
lukedodd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hi Chad,

My data for the AXI was using a Hyperion E-meter, packs as specified in the spreadsheet, but for the 5330/18 with 10s3p 7500mah Flightpower pack, 20 degree timing, 8khz switching freq, H-Acro-90 ESC the motor was doing 6900rpm, drawing 81Amps.

These figures would have some error, I would say +/- 2 amps, and +/- 100 rpm.

I use a Plett 25-13 with an APC19x12WE(at your advice) in my World Models Zen120 and it goes beautifully. However model is much lighter than my impression by about 800g. I like the extra rpm with this motor, I seem to get a better throttle response. I am very happy with this set up its a great practice machine which is kind on the packs. However I will fly my Impression in a comp this sunday. The extra power of the AXI helps in windy conditions which will prevail at the coastal flying field.

I have tried to attach the x-cell spreadsheet as a jpg file. Excuse my ignorance but how do I attach a file to this post. I have tried all the icons on the reply to message page. Cut and paste didn't work.

The spreadsheet is a starting point that could help other electric fliers, but I would like to spend more time on it to refine it and add more parameters such as different timings and switching.

luke



Old 10-14-2005, 12:40 AM
  #32  
can773
My Feedback: (1)
 
can773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 2,286
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hi Luke

After you click the reply button, directly below where you type the reply is a link that say's Click here to upload!, from there it will pop up a window that will allow you to browse and attach a file. If you still cant get it uploaded drop it in an email to me and I will get it on here for you.

[email protected]

Curious that the posted numbers from Axi are that far out of line with your measured numbers. I can beleive that the E-meter is a good measuring device. ExFokkerFlyer was referring to altitude, but I fly at 3500' and have flown the same setup (30-10 Plett/21-13W APC) at sea level and only noticed about a 2 amp increase in static draw, and had to reduce flight time by about 15-30 seconds to get similar draw, so I dont think that contributes much to the variation in posted spec vs. actual. Unfortunately I cannot find any information directly on Axi's site only Hobby Lobby and obviously their numbers are flawed

Plett will have a couple of new motors available hopefully by the spring Two options, either a high rpm smaller prop setup, or a larger prop lower rpm setup.

Old 10-14-2005, 03:19 AM
  #33  
lukedodd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the help.

Hopefully spreadsheet attached.


luke
Attached Files
File Type: txt
Zx69840.txt (2.6 KB, 13 views)
Old 10-14-2005, 10:42 AM
  #34  
can773
My Feedback: (1)
 
can773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 2,286
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hi Luke

Got the spreadsheet in my email, and your attachement works as well

Interesting to see the numbers, I am wondering if there is not something ESC related as the numbers you have for the Plett's do not match what I have recorded. I am using the Schulze 32.55K ESC, with the sw. Freq at 9kHz but the timing is not labelled as on the Hacker....I dont know what "soft timing" represents in actual degrees

With the 18x12 on the 25-13 we were seeing more around 6500-6600 and mid 60's for current. The 18.5x12 was pushing up around 70A, the 19x12 was about 6300-6400 and 73-74A, 19x12W is about 6400-6500 and 65-67A.

With the 30-10 the 21x13W prop is spinning about 5900 and 62A, the 21x12W is spinning 6000 and 60A. All this is with the TP 5300 packs, which I see you are using in some of your tests, and your voltages match closely to what I have recorded, I typically have seen around 35V right up to 70A loads.

Would be interesting to repeat your tests with a Schulze ESC and see if you notice any difference as compared to the Hacker.
Old 10-14-2005, 05:26 PM
  #35  
lukedodd
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hi Chad,

You make a very good point and certainly the ESC is still a key component in the equation.
I will get my hands on a 32.55k shortly.
Also I have some new model FlightPower Evo 20C continuous 30 C burst capacity 10s LiPo packs due from the factory next week. It will be interesting if they maintain a higer voltage under load and the impact this will have on rpm also.

luke
Old 10-14-2005, 06:43 PM
  #36  
can773
My Feedback: (1)
 
can773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 2,286
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hi Luke

You probably will I was using Apogee 5000 (same as Flightpower 5000 cells) and got about a 400W increase in power when I went to the TP 5300's....thats why I had to stop using the 19x12 and move to the 19x12W because with the TP the 19x12 would over-current the Schulze ESC on the 25-13

I am curious how those cells perform compared to the Thunder Power's, although they are still around 80 grams per 5s pack heavier than the TP's for similar capacity, but according to the site they are a fair bit cheaper.
Old 10-16-2005, 10:46 AM
  #37  
patternflyer1
My Feedback: (11)
 
patternflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Ales

What altitude are you at above sea level?
Also do you have any detailed information on different props, rpm's and current draw's?
I may have my family in England order me one as I can't get them over here yet..

Thanks in advance,

Chris
Old 10-17-2005, 04:12 PM
  #38  
Dean Pappas
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Plainfield, NJ
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hello Chris,
I read your comment with curiousity. What about running "only" an 18-inch diameter do you find to be a problem? Let me start a friendly argument here: there are two issues with big diameter props. First, I have found that on my O.S. 140 RX, when I played with larger diameter props, like an 18 X 10, the thrust characteristics might have improved, but I also noticed some gyroscopics that I did not like. The second issue is that the slope of the thrust versus airspeed characteristic, given a certain amount of available horsepower (wattage) is entirely different with very large diameters. In short, none of the 22-inch setups had the airspeed to fly in wind. I saw it in France, this Summer, and I have seen it at the U.S. NATs. An airplane that is propped so that it tops-out at 85 MPH may be great for flying at "constant speed", but it isn't the best setup, in the long run.

Ales,
I noticed that you have run the lower kv AXI 5330. How does the top speed compare? Do you have the ability to fly excessively fast, under normal conditions?

Thank you both,
Dean Pappas: F3A columnist Flying Models Magazine
Old 10-17-2005, 04:28 PM
  #39  
Dean Pappas
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: South Plainfield, NJ
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hello Luke,
May I also request a copy of the spreadsheet.
<[email protected]>
Thanks,
Dean Pappas
Old 10-17-2005, 07:26 PM
  #40  
patternflyer1
My Feedback: (11)
 
patternflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hi Dean.

No problem on the points you bring up, I don't take it as you starting a friendly argument. Just making your point and I do understand what you're saying. Yes, 22 inch props are more for less windy day's. I learned recently, at the Lancaster, California contest, In 35 miles an hour plus gusts, that we flew in, that Tony F switched props to a 21 inch. I forget the pitch. Maybe 13, I don't remember. And he had more than enough power still to fly the Fai pattern with his Partner. Plus I believe he's running the hacker 14xl timed at 3 degrees positive.
I run a OS 140rx at the moment and I run a 4 blade to slow it down. Granted it doesn't always have the "over the top" that I need in the wind but it works well for the most part and I generally live with it. Except for at Lancaster where I went back to a 2 blade.
Now, with that said, there is a major right thrust issue for me with the 4 blader. But I have learned to live with it.
I'm sure you saw Tony F fly at the nats and there is no way that it was as windy there as the Lancaster contest. From what I witnessed. His setup had plenty of power with the 21....
Chris
Old 10-19-2005, 05:26 AM
  #41  
az
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Czech Republic,
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Hi guys,
The reason to develop new version of AXI was to have motor where its possible to run prop which are too big for 5330/18 and too small for 5330/24. And because most of pilots was quite happy with 22x12 we made something suitable for this kind of props (22x12, 21x13,21x14).


My setup:
• AXI 5330/F3A
• APC E 22x12
• 0-90 Acro controller with F3A soft brake, 10%
• Polyquest 2600,12C 10s2p

And here are my feelings >
This setup is absolutely perfect for slow, constant speed flying in calm weather. There is enough power for vertical snaps (P05) and also very slow down lines. Flying display is something like you fly in oil.

Little problem is in very windy weather (10-15m/s). You have still enough power for verticals but horizon take quite long time.


So for this reason I would like to use two different prop setup. One for calm(22x12) and one for windy(21x13) weather. Now its only IDEA but I hope that it will works.


Also some measurements:

At 5500 rpm it takes about 72 Amps, but I’m using switch for normal flying where I have only 65 Amps.

With different prop I haven’t made measurement yet.

This Amps depends on batteries, so if you will use stronger batteries you will take little bit more Amps than I.

My altitude above sea level is about 200 m

Hope this help.


Ales
Old 10-19-2005, 06:24 AM
  #42  
Malcolm H
 
Malcolm H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: glasgow, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 713
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Dear Ales,

Are you involved with the Axi production? The one area I would like to see Model Motors address is the weight of the 5330/F3A.

At 652g it is the heaviest of all the current F3A suitable motors

Hacker C50XL 529g, Cyclon 160F3A 550g, Plett Extra 30 530g.

Where is the weight in the motor is it the mechanics, the windings or the magnet. Is there scope to reduce the weight perhaps at a little extra cost?

Changing setup for windy days is not uncommon here in the UK we do it a lot!

Regards

Malcolm
Old 10-19-2005, 07:10 AM
  #43  
wvr
Senior Member
 
wvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Haarlem, AK, NETHERLANDS
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

To Malcolm

As I'm new to the electrics, I'm only flying competition next year with plettie 30-10, can you tell me what kind of changes you make for no-wind/lots-of wind days.

Is it only the prop? Or do you have other winding motors that give more RPM on a smaller prop.

Thanks
Winfried
Old 10-19-2005, 07:12 AM
  #44  
Sprink
Senior Member
 
Sprink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 2,235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor


ORIGINAL: az

This Amps depends on batteries, so if you will use stronger batteries you will take little bit more Amps than I.
Have you got voltage figures for that?
Old 10-19-2005, 08:18 AM
  #45  
Malcolm H
 
Malcolm H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: glasgow, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 713
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Winfried,

As others have noted here when the wind gets up it is harder to keep the shapes with a low airspeed. To increase the airspeed it is usual to increase the prop pitch and reduce the diameter so as not to overload the motor. In my case I have been using 22 x 12 in calm conditions and 21 x 14 when the wind gets up. I have also tried 21 x 13W but have not had enough flying with this to come to a conclusion. Obviously the battery on load voltage will dictate what current a given prop will draw and I suspect that in my setup I will need to go down a little in prop with the latest batteries.

Malcolm
Old 10-19-2005, 08:37 AM
  #46  
Malcolm H
 
Malcolm H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: glasgow, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 713
Received 8 Likes on 7 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Double post removed
Old 11-10-2005, 01:10 AM
  #47  
patternflyer1
My Feedback: (11)
 
patternflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

Well the Axi 5330/F3A and Jeti 90 showed up today. How freakin excited am I ????????????????? ALOT!!!!!!! I have maybe another month left on the C.A. Eclipse build. It's taking shape.
I bought the Axi from Richard at Pacific Models. He's a real nice guy and very eager to help. I was impressed by him!!!! His website is www.rcmodels.ca
He can also get Thunderpower prolites under every one elses price.
Give him a call. He's very helpful. Tell him Chris sent you PLEASE.
Here's a few pics.....
Chris
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Yw68872.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	45.9 KB
ID:	351696   Click image for larger version

Name:	Oj28378.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	49.4 KB
ID:	351697   Click image for larger version

Name:	Xd80897.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	45.4 KB
ID:	351698   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ga77547.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	53.3 KB
ID:	351699   Click image for larger version

Name:	Yk66607.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	33.6 KB
ID:	351700  
Old 11-10-2005, 01:24 AM
  #48  
patternflyer1
My Feedback: (11)
 
patternflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

A few more pics...
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Qo41355.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	48.1 KB
ID:	351706   Click image for larger version

Name:	Dy80411.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	61.1 KB
ID:	351707   Click image for larger version

Name:	Rw58658.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	34.5 KB
ID:	351708   Click image for larger version

Name:	Vp38956.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	26.1 KB
ID:	351709  
Old 11-10-2005, 11:46 PM
  #49  
pmr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Philippines, , PHILIPPINES
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor

what's the difference between the regular AXI 5330 and the 5330 F3A?
Old 11-11-2005, 08:22 AM
  #50  
Sprink
Senior Member
 
Sprink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: London, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 2,235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor


ORIGINAL: pmr

what's the difference between the regular AXI 5330 and the 5330 F3A?
Just the winding.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.