Battery cycles
09-27-2005, 09:21 AM
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Battery cycles
Seems like this is the big holdup for lots of people and the most I have seen on this forum is 60 cycles I believe. I did talk to 2 different people this weekend that have 90 cycles on TP 6000's and 5300's, and the packs are still close to new capacity. I was told that the 5300's has more power than the older 6000's.
As the cycles come up we will see more and more people changing and as it was said on the NSRCA list it's not for everyone.
Also should be added that short flights, not over discharging is one of the keys to longevity as is balancing and proper charging.
Steve Maxwell
As the cycles come up we will see more and more people changing and as it was said on the NSRCA list it's not for everyone.
Also should be added that short flights, not over discharging is one of the keys to longevity as is balancing and proper charging.
Steve Maxwell
10-17-2005, 07:36 PM
#2
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RE: Battery cycles
Steve, just went to a contest in NorCal this past weekend and was told that at least one very good pilot has returned to flying because of electric capability. He was there and flew his electric well, in Masters.
That's all good in my book.
Matt
That's all good in my book.
Matt
ORIGINAL: patternrules
Seems like this is the big holdup for lots of people and the most I have seen on this forum is 60 cycles I believe. I did talk to 2 different people this weekend that have 90 cycles on TP 6000's and 5300's, and the packs are still close to new capacity. I was told that the 5300's has more power than the older 6000's.
As the cycles come up we will see more and more people changing and as it was said on the NSRCA list it's not for everyone.
Also should be added that short flights, not over discharging is one of the keys to longevity as is balancing and proper charging.
Steve Maxwell
Seems like this is the big holdup for lots of people and the most I have seen on this forum is 60 cycles I believe. I did talk to 2 different people this weekend that have 90 cycles on TP 6000's and 5300's, and the packs are still close to new capacity. I was told that the 5300's has more power than the older 6000's.
As the cycles come up we will see more and more people changing and as it was said on the NSRCA list it's not for everyone.
Also should be added that short flights, not over discharging is one of the keys to longevity as is balancing and proper charging.
Steve Maxwell
10-17-2005, 10:03 PM
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RE: Battery cycles
I have two sets of Pro Lite 6000s with close to 60 cycles a piece on them. I would have to run into my garage and count my records to be exact, but it's pretty close. I have not yet seen any losses in power or capacity. It may be there, but is small enough that I haven't noticed it yet. I do take careful records and the airplane is set up to keep the batt temps low in flight.
I have started to see differences in how they act during charge recently. When I first started using the balancers about 40 cycles ago, I rarely saw any activity with the lights during charge. I did for the first few charges, but after that it was pretty quiet. Lately I have seen that a couple of my packs need quite a bit of fiddling to balance. Having said that, that is what the balancers are for so I'm not concerned yet, just taking note.
I have started to see differences in how they act during charge recently. When I first started using the balancers about 40 cycles ago, I rarely saw any activity with the lights during charge. I did for the first few charges, but after that it was pretty quiet. Lately I have seen that a couple of my packs need quite a bit of fiddling to balance. Having said that, that is what the balancers are for so I'm not concerned yet, just taking note.
10-22-2005, 07:51 AM
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RE: Battery cycles
Here's some testing I just did on 2 of my 5s3p 6000 prolite packs. These packs have been run in series together since the start. They now have a total of 89 cycles on them. They've been stored now for 4 weeks since I last used them.
This first discharge graph shows a direct comparison between packs at 89 cycles. Red line is pk 1, blk line is pk 2.
There's a 10mah difference between paks. Start voltage was at 20.87v, discharge cut off at 16.5v.
This first discharge graph shows a direct comparison between packs at 89 cycles. Red line is pk 1, blk line is pk 2.
There's a 10mah difference between paks. Start voltage was at 20.87v, discharge cut off at 16.5v.
10-22-2005, 07:55 AM
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RE: Battery cycles
This graph shows the original discharge at 7 cycles compared to the 89th cycle. Mah for this pack 1 at 7th discharge was 5600mah, 89th 5480mah. A loss of 2%.
10-22-2005, 08:12 AM
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RE: Battery cycles
I've got 4 more paks to test, if I find anything out of the ordinary I'll post it, but don't expect to. Next step is to see how they will last through the winter months as I won't be using them again until next spring. It would be great if I can get another complete season out of them. Right now batt 1 (pk 1,2) has 89 cycles, batt 2 (pk 3,4) 97 cycles, batt 3 (pk 5,6) has 90 cycles for a total of 276 cycles between the three of them. Each pair has 5 low discharge break in cycles on them, done on the bench. So I've got 261 total flights, about $8/flight.
Also, these paks were never discharged below 3.7v/cell. Balancers were started use at about 25 cycles, used every charge there after. Never stored at full voltage except for over night. If stored for more then a day, voltage was between 19-19.5 volts. Highest temps seen were at about 140F.
Also, these paks were never discharged below 3.7v/cell. Balancers were started use at about 25 cycles, used every charge there after. Never stored at full voltage except for over night. If stored for more then a day, voltage was between 19-19.5 volts. Highest temps seen were at about 140F.
10-22-2005, 08:50 AM
#9
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RE: Battery cycles
RM, is this information from bench running? Or from on-board in-flight records?
Good information, thanks
MattK
Good information, thanks
MattK
ORIGINAL: rm
Here's a run up with my watt meter from 5/30/05 compared to 9/9/05. This is at 24 cycles and 79 cycles. Not much difference.
Here's a run up with my watt meter from 5/30/05 compared to 9/9/05. This is at 24 cycles and 79 cycles. Not much difference.
10-22-2005, 09:20 AM
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RE: Battery cycles
Matt, #'s are static. 14xl, 22x12. Newer 5300 paks, #'s will be better.
Steve, not sure. Maybe every couple months. Takes over 3 hours to recharge, discharge and recharge each pk.
Steve, not sure. Maybe every couple months. Takes over 3 hours to recharge, discharge and recharge each pk.
10-22-2005, 09:27 AM
#12
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RE: Battery cycles
RM, the 8$/flt could have been lower for many that run electrics if less battery packs were used in a season (say 2 sets of batteries instead of 3). That would drop the cost/flt to the 5.5$/flt. Compared to YS 160 on 30%, that's within about a buck per flight. Compared to Webra 160 on 15%, its about 3X the cost. THAT IS, Strictly fuel costs and with no consideration to repairs or support equipment. Interesting numbers.
In my quick calculation, if you get another season out of the batteries, then the costs favor the electric )compared to YS 160)
MattK
In my quick calculation, if you get another season out of the batteries, then the costs favor the electric )compared to YS 160)
MattK
ORIGINAL: rm
I've got 4 more paks to test, if I find anything out of the ordinary I'll post it, but don't expect to. Next step is to see how they will last through the winter months as I won't be using them again until next spring. It would be great if I can get another complete season out of them. Right now batt 1 (pk 1,2) has 89 cycles, batt 2 (pk 3,4) 97 cycles, batt 3 (pk 5,6) has 90 cycles for a total of 276 cycles between the three of them. Each pair has 5 low discharge break in cycles on them, done on the bench. So I've got 261 total flights, about $8/flight.
Also, these paks were never discharged below 3.7v/cell. Balancers were started use at about 25 cycles, used every charge there after. Never stored at full voltage except for over night. If stored for more then a day, voltage was between 19-19.5 volts. Highest temps seen were at about 140F.
I've got 4 more paks to test, if I find anything out of the ordinary I'll post it, but don't expect to. Next step is to see how they will last through the winter months as I won't be using them again until next spring. It would be great if I can get another complete season out of them. Right now batt 1 (pk 1,2) has 89 cycles, batt 2 (pk 3,4) 97 cycles, batt 3 (pk 5,6) has 90 cycles for a total of 276 cycles between the three of them. Each pair has 5 low discharge break in cycles on them, done on the bench. So I've got 261 total flights, about $8/flight.
Also, these paks were never discharged below 3.7v/cell. Balancers were started use at about 25 cycles, used every charge there after. Never stored at full voltage except for over night. If stored for more then a day, voltage was between 19-19.5 volts. Highest temps seen were at about 140F.
10-22-2005, 10:00 AM
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RE: Battery cycles
Matt, that's a good point. As far as maintenance on the airframe, hardly any. Had a bulkhead that held the landing gear come loose on one landing. Easy fix, that's it. Servos still are in excellent shape. Had one motor that had problems that I found aggravating, which hacker had to do a complete rewind before they finally got it fixed, and an esc problem (77 Hacker), which cost me a plane that I couldn't make back to the field and lost it, same as a dead stick. Majority of the time was fairly care free flying. I used to fly the DZ and kept a flight log. Constantly was having to fix something that was breaking or coming loose.
10-22-2005, 10:33 AM
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RE: Battery cycles
rm, Charlie Wang recommends 3.85v/cell as the open circuit voltage for best storage life. Also keep the packs above 32degF, but as close it as possible.
