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Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Old 11-24-2005, 10:29 AM
  #26  
patternrules
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

I'm a little disappointed that you didn't get this in the air before the guy's with the ARF's but they haven't flown yet, , but then considering you got your 12 days after they did, your speed in building is amazing. If my memory serves me right you done a Magic kit in the 80's in 7 days. I wish I could do like you do but I have to be in the mood to build, some takes me a year to finish.
I'll also say that I have known Steve for a long time and he does some very good work, not just fast.
Steve Maxwell
Old 11-25-2005, 12:49 AM
  #27  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Steve does do pretty work, I have seen several of his planes. A very good builder.[8D]

I have been slow because I have been working night shift. 7 days a week, 12 hours a day for the last 38 nights and before that I was at the refinery helping to restore power and get the units ready to startup. Today is my 1st day off in quite a while. Im trying not to hurry since I have about $5000 invested in this plane and its my 1st pattern plane assembly, relatively speaking. I just want to be sure its right.

That being the case, its ready.. If the engine runs well tomorrow when I test it out, the 3rd or 4th run will be on the maiden flight.

Keep it coming Steve this is a really great thread!
Old 11-25-2005, 09:43 AM
  #28  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Mike I didn't mean this as anyone being slow by any means, Steve has always amazed me on how fast he can build. I sure can't build like that, wish I could. Steve has just got his techniques down to a science, for both speed and function.
Steve Maxwell
Old 11-25-2005, 11:02 AM
  #29  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

This phase always slows me down

Hey guys, thanks for the kind words. This phase always slows me down. Plus with Thanksgiving and today's UT - Texas A&M football game, I may not make much progress. I remember the Magic I built in a week. It flew lousy. I thought it was my build, but I later found out they all flew bad. Now I build for pure enjoyment. My finishes are OK put not showroom perfect. I tend to prefer precision flying (function) over finish (form). At any rate, here are some more progress pictures. Enjoy.

Steve K

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Old 11-25-2005, 10:41 PM
  #30  
KeithB
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Steve,

It appears that after you sanded the primer (gel coat) down you didn't lay a base white coat down and then paint your colors over it. In fact, it appears that you're not painting any colors over colors but rather tape right up to a pre-painted line and shoot the next color. Is this correct? (Was that question even coherent?)

The reason I ask is that I normally paint one color and overlap it slightly into where the next color will be then tape over the previous color to paint the next one. This clearly adds additional weight but I’ve always been worried that trying to tape EXACTLY to the seam of the last color wouldn’t work well as I may have small gaps. Can you describe what you do, I’d like to save the weight penalty of overlapping, but I’m not sure how to go about it.

BTW, what type of PPG paint are you using DCC ?

Thanks,
Keith B


Old 11-26-2005, 12:46 AM
  #31  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Keith,

Yep, you got it right. I only rough up the white gel coat with 400 to 600 grit sand paper. Then I spray a very light primer. Only enough to look for areas needing filler or touch up. Then I sam much of it off with 600 grit. I use the 3M blue fine line vinyl tape. Yes I butt some of the colors up to each other (red to white and canopy pink to metallic silver. When you lift the tape when the paint is tacking, you get a blended paint line. If you wait until the paint is dry, then you get a sharp line. If you minimize paint over paint, you can keep the weight down. Tomorrow morning, I'll weigh everything for paint and monokote weight. Only my small yellow, metallic blue and maroon was painted over the white. Here I use the 1/8" tape to make sure the color lines are parallel to each other as these colors do not butt up to each other. On the bottom side of the paint, I use the 1/4" tape. This serves as my paint distance guide. This way my side stripes end with 1/8" spacing and exactly 1/4" wide trim colors. Hope I didn't confuse you.

The PPG paint is the same that Tony Stillman sells at Radio South. I believe it is the DCC.
Old 11-26-2005, 07:17 AM
  #32  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Paint and Monokote weights

Here are the final paint and Monokote weights [b](bold underline)[/b] before radio installation.

Fuse 21.71oz (29.25) (32.0)
Canopy 4.37 (4.86) (5.35)
Cowl 3.11 (3.21) (3.53)
Total 29.2oz (37.32) (40.88)

Rudder .98oz (no LE installed) (1.56) (1.92)

R stab 1.39oz (no LE installed) (2.30) (2.71)
L stab 1.32 (2.23) (2.61)
R wing 7.82oz (no LE installed) (10.53) (12.26)
L wing 7.85 (10.53) (12.3)
wheel pants 1.3 (1.4) (1.55)
alum gear 4.8 (will use the Bolly CF gear)
PBG 7/8"x30" 2.6 (will use this CF wing tube instead of the aluminum)
PBG 7/16" 0.7oz approx. (will use the PBG CF tube instead of the aluminum)



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Old 11-27-2005, 07:38 AM
  #33  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Radio Installation

Progress has been slow the last few days. I did get my wing servos installed, landing gear and the motor. The next phase will be setting the wing incedence.
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Old 11-27-2005, 10:14 AM
  #34  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Wing Incidence

After the stabs and wings are finished and the control surfaces have been set at neutral, it's time to set the wing incidence. I use the molded in dots on the fuselage to level the plane. The wings dots align at 0.5 deg positive incidence. The stab is set at 0 deg incidence. Also I use two 1/4" balsa pointer sticks to make sure there is equal deflection up and town on both elevators.

Be carefull of the brass threaded couplers used on the 0.07" CF push rod. When I making an elevator clevis adjustment, the threaded portion of the brass coupler broke. Fortunately I had some Central Hobbies 4-40 titanium rod ends. I had to cut off the old brass coupler and splice in the titanium rod. The Chip Hyde horn clevis was drilled and tapped for a 4-40 thread. I intend to replace the other elevator brass coupler. The splice is black thread wrapped tight and fixed with thin CA.

The next step will be setting the batteries for proper CG location.
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Old 11-27-2005, 11:17 AM
  #35  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Steve

In addition to the TT rod ends from Central, BVM offers steel versions in 2-56. Forget the brass!
Old 11-27-2005, 07:21 PM
  #36  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Rudder cable and battery installation

On the Genesis, it is best to cross the rudder cables as this gives a straight shot to the rudder. The battery is the TP6000 Gen II lites. I simply used honeycore material to fabricate a support tray.
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Old 11-27-2005, 07:26 PM
  #37  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Steve,
looks great, what is the weight with the TP6000 Gen II lites
Old 11-27-2005, 07:31 PM
  #38  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Genesis is finally finished

We, it has been a interesting three week build project. I had some rework, but it's done. The final weight cam in at 10# - 11oz. This includes a Tru Turn aluminum spinner, a 1600ma NiCad battery. If I were to install the newer generation TP5300 5s4p batteries and a CF spinner, I could shave off another 4oz of weight. All in all, I'm pleased with the outcome. I hope to fly the plane in a few weeks. Next weekend is shot for me though.

This is a great building kit. Good quality.

Signing off.

Steve K
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Old 11-27-2005, 07:32 PM
  #39  
Chris Moon
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Thanks for another great build thread. Is the canopy seat on the fuse parallel to either the wing or stab zero line? That would certainly make things easier to set up unless the molded in dots are right on. Thanks!
Old 11-27-2005, 08:15 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Beautiful Build Steve,,, I bet it flies even better than it looks!
Old 11-27-2005, 09:31 PM
  #41  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

UAL767,

Sorry, I never measured the canopy incidence relative to the molded in marks. Maybe I can get a reference after I fly the plane.

Regards,

Steve K
Old 11-28-2005, 06:19 AM
  #42  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

UAL,
Yes it is parallel towards the rear of the canopy surface. That is the reference point I used to set the incidence on mine and it was right on the money. It slopes downward very slightly as you get out towards the front of the canopy, but if you set the digital level so that the back edge of the level is just barely lapped over the forward edge of the rudder servo mounting plate you will be right on it.

If you level the canopy surface, you can set the stabs at zero and the wings at +.5.
I flew mine a few days ago and all it needed was 2 clicks of down elevator for level flight. Down lines appeared to be pretty doggone straight as well.

My stab adjusters are bottomed out though, I wanted to take the down elevator out by slightly increasing the positive incidence of the stabs but since I have no room for adjustment Im just going to reduce the positive incidence in the wing slightly and see if that does it.
Old 11-28-2005, 09:13 AM
  #43  
Chris Moon
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Thanks Mike: So if I use maybe the rearward 3-4" of the canopy surface and set that level, then I should be able to set the stab at zero and wing at .5 off of that. That should simplify things quite a bit. I am putting in a new stab that I had cut that is a fixed one piece stab to save the weight of the stab adj and tube, so I want to be sure I'm at zero.
Old 11-28-2005, 09:22 AM
  #44  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Chris, I'm guessing you guys got yours then.
Steve Maxwell
Old 11-28-2005, 05:09 PM
  #45  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

I set the level where I have it marked in the drawing. This was the sweet spot. Fore and aft of this area the canopy surface has a slight taper to it. I was instructed to set the incidence this way by Todd Blose and it was on the money. Its also important that when you use this surface that you make sure that the canopy is level side to side as well as laterally. I know that sounds obvious but I shimmed up to get it perfect and it seemed to work out pretty well judging by how well the plane flew.

The only caviot I would add to that is that Todd also instructed me after the initial trim flights, to readjust the incidence in the stab to take the trim out of the elevator. IE, down elevator trim... increase the stab incidence until the stab is in line with the elevator as it sits trimmed.

However, the stab adjustment tube must be drilled a little off on my plane because my incidence adjusters on the stab are against the stops to get to to zero, therefore I cannot increase the incidence in the stabs. I was instructed to take the incidence out of the wing maybe 1/10th degree at a time until I have taken the down elevator out to attain level flight. This should have a similar effect to increasing the stab incidence. I Hope Im not showing my ignorance but that is the way I understood it,,, and to tell you the truth it worked exactly as expected.

This is all done with the CG at exactly the front edge of the wing tube.

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Old 11-28-2005, 07:19 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Thanks for the pic Mike. I'm going to do it exactly the way you and Todd have done it.
Old 12-02-2005, 06:08 PM
  #47  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Test flights successful

I had a chance to make four test flights today. I only needed three clicks of down elevator trim and one click of right aileron trim. The rudder was right on. I flew three complete masters patterns. I had no mix for the flights. On both right and left knife edge, the plane tracks straight. Roll couple is very slight. Probably needs less than 3% mix. I may leave it. Up and power off down lines are straight with no pull to canopy.

On the first flight, the CG was set at 1/16" in front of the front of the wing tube. It was too tail heavy for my liking. Rudder and elevator was too sensitive. For the second and third flight, I moved the batteries 3/4" forward. This probably changed the CG forward 1/4". I liked this arrangement much better.

The first, third and fourth flight was with the APC 20-13e prop. The second flight was with the APC 21-12We prop. The APC 20-13e prop only pulled 62 peak amps WOT with the Hacker C50-13XL motor set at 3 degrees timing and using the TP6000 gen II lite batteries. I may take the Hacker C50-14XL motor out of my Eclipse and compere the two. Overall, I had much straighter power on up lines with the 20-13e prop. The 21-12We prop had a lot of torque effect requiring a lot of rudder control.

The rolling characteristics are good. I have almost no differential. I did however increase elevator expo to 35% to soften up neutral. The aileron expo is set at 25% and rudder is set at 40%. Attached are some photos of the finished plane, control throws and the broken Chip Hyde Clevis.

I found out you are not supposed to pry open the Chip Hyde clevis. Just simply unscrew the pins when installing. My flying was cut short when I broke the elevator clevis. Fortunately I was able to reinstall the pin in a Hays 4-40 clevis. Central Hobbies does not have any replacement clevis. I am glad they told me what I was doing wrong.
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Old 12-03-2005, 11:03 PM
  #48  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Steve,
Congrats on the successful flights!

Did yours pull any to the canopy in vertical downlines before you moved the CG forward. Mine does just slightly, and Im still procrastinating over whether or not to move the CG forward to correct instead of messing with the incidence..
Old 12-04-2005, 09:06 PM
  #49  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Mike,

I only had some trim passes with the first tail heavy CG flight. After I adjusted the CG, I did paractice the Masters pattern. There was no noticable pull out to canopy with the power off down lines. I would like to get some better trim flights with calm wind.

I am so excited about the flying characteristics of the Genesis, that I have decided to sell one of my Eclipses.

I am glad to see your Genesis is flying well. All we need to do is get Bill Higgins plane in the air.

I saw where you suggested we all gather to compare our Genesis. We usually have a March warm up session and NSRCA judges clinic in Houston. Maybe we can all gather then. Ron Barr should have his Genesis finished by then. If we want to meet sooner, I'd like to offer to meet at the Jetero club.

Regards,

Steve Kessler
Old 12-04-2005, 10:35 PM
  #50  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

I don't recall Ron Barr posting on RCU. Perhaps one of you could relay his thoughts on Genesis vs. Partner here?

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