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Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Old 11-12-2005, 08:46 AM
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swk550
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Default Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

I see that there are two ARF Genesis build threads (Glow + Electric). This thread is a Genesis build from the Basic kit. This kit is shown on the CA model web site under the Spanish section.

I ordered seven Genesis basic kits from Chip Hyde at CHMP. The kits were for four pattern flyers in the Houston area. It took some four months to get delivery. At the very end we ended up having the kits air freight shipped to Houston IAH. This added some extra cost. I don't know the final costs yet, but the estimated cost was only slightly more than a Eclipse basic kit (delivered) when ordered thru Aeroworks or Pattern Proz.

The quality of the kit is as good or maybe slightly better than the Eclipse kit. As always, we received very light fiberglass fuselages. All wood parts are furnished. The plysood formers, landing gear plates, servo trays are lazer cut.

Here are the weights of my basic Genesis kit. When I compare the weights to my Eclipse, all totals come within 2oz. This suggests I can build the electric Genesis with a target weight of 10#-8oz. I will be using the PBG CF wing and stab tubes and Bolly landing gear in lieu of the aluminum supplied. I will say, there is nothing wrong with the aluminum tubes supplied. I am just wanting to save some 3oz to 4oz in weight.

Here are my starting weights:

Fuse 21.71oz
Canopy 4.37
Cowl 3.11
Total 29.2oz

Rudder .98oz (no LE installed)

R stab 1.39oz (no LE installed)
L stab 1.32
R wing 7.82oz (no LE installed)
L wing 7.85
wheel pants 1.3
alum gear 4.8 (will use the Bolly CF gear)
PBG 7/8"x30" 2.6 (will use this CF wing tube instead of the aluminum)
Alum. wing tube 4.8
Alum. stab tube 1.19
PBG 7/16" 0.7oz approx. (will use the PBG CF tube instead of the aluminum)

Overall the fuselage fiberglass work is very good. I would say the quality is even better than the Eclipse fuse fiberglass work.

I will substitute the aluminum gear with Bolly gear.

Bolly F3A Long CF Gear 4.3oz (only used on the electric version)
Bolly F3A Wide CF Gear 4.3oz (only used on the glow version)

Here are some pictures.

Regards,

Steve
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:06 AM
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swk550
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

I like to start out by first preparing the wings and stabs for installation. The stabs and wings come sheeted but you need to install the tube sockets and the LE balsa. No big deal. There are internal lite ply part ribs in the fuse and stabs. Mark the location so that you have a reference where to apply the epoxy to the stab tubes.

If you are using the PBG tube sockets, be careful. The OD of the sockets is smaller than the standard Gator sockets (CA models supplies there own version). I had to use 1.5oz doubled layered glass cloth to make up the diameter requirements. Make sure the glass cloth is sanded evenly all around as the final diameter needs to be concentric with the tube socket.

I have built four Eclipse kits. The wing diehedral has always been perfect. Yust to be safe, check it before you epoxy in the sockets.

After you epoxy in the sockets, it is best to glue on the LE balsa. Elmers white glue works best, because if any oozes out, it is easy to sand. Masking tape holds the LE snug until the glue dries. The cut out locations for servos, elevator and ailerons is drawn on the balsa sheeting. CA model makes this easy. This time they supplied balsa cap strips that are already sanded the the right bevel.

I plan on substituting 1/8" hard ply for my landing gear plates. I have had some hard landings and broke the lite ply plates.

Regards,

Steve
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Old 11-12-2005, 12:02 PM
  #3  
Ricardo M.
 
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Great thread Steve.

I´m planning to build a kit for glow, and most of the building tips are very useful to me.I have a couple of questions about gluing the wing tube socket.
How do you glue it? (Epoxi obviously, but any special technic?)
How do you know that you glue it in the correct position?
Do you glue the two half at the same time with the wing tube on or one half after the other?
Old 11-12-2005, 02:50 PM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Ricardo,

I use 30 min epoxy. Sometines I thin the epoxy with alcohol and mix in some microbaloon. I only thin maybe 20% because I want full strength.

Before I install the wing or stab tubes, I insert a small wooden dowel and measure where the inside half rib is. There are two of them. Attached is a photo of the rib location dimensions. You can tell because the wood dowel catch the support hole for the tube. Just mark the location of the half ribs on the outside of the wing. Then you insert the tubes and measure where they insert. I insert the tubes until the foam in the wing or stab does not allow the tube to be inserted further.

Inorder to keep epoxy from getting inside of the tube during insertion, I install with CA an 1/8" thick balsa plug at the end of the tube.

Then I use a inexpensive acid brush with the bristles bent a little to smear epoxy at the half rib holes. I also smear epoxy on the tube at the support locations. You do not need epoxy on the foam hole, just at the ribs. Using a twisting motion, simply insert the tube sockets to the proper location.

I think you can see the tube socket plug at one end.
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Here are some pictures of my wing and stab build.
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Old 11-12-2005, 09:40 PM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Here are some pictures of the vertical fin reinforcement.
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Old 11-13-2005, 09:26 AM
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Ricardo M.
 
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Thanks Steve for your reply.
Old 11-13-2005, 04:15 PM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Stab installation

Before we start the wing and stab installation, it time to mark the installation locations. The Genesis makes it easy. There are molded in reference dots and circles for the wing and stab tube. The molded in dots gives you an incidence reference line. I use masking tape to mark up the fuselage.

Next locate the stab tube hole. After I cut the holes in both sides, I install the tube socket and start checking my alignments. I measure the stab tips relative to the centerline of the fuse to make sure it is aligned. Then I use right triangles to make sure the stab is square with the vertical fin. I cut the stab tube holes in the fuse a little bit larger. I use 1/64 plywood shims to center the stab tube socket. After is all alligned, I tack in everything with thin CA. I check one more time and then I mix up some epoxy and milled fiberglass to install the socket with the fuse hard points.

After the stab tube fillets cure, it's time to install the wing. You will notice I install the wing tube socket in the fuse with the furnished plywood rings. Remember to grind away the inner fiberglass and styrofoam layer where the ring attaches to the fuse. I install one ring on one side without the tube. Then I cut the hole on the other side. There is some trial and fit-up of the wing. After everything aligns, I install the center tube socket and other ring. Here it is critical to align the wing with the fues and the stab. I use balsa shims to make sure the wing is aligned with the fuse sides. I take a string and measure from the wing tips back to the vertical fin. If all is aligned within 1/16 inch, it is time to install the other support ring. I do sight the wing with the stab to make sure everything is parallel. I simply make a wedge to ajdust the free side. If everything is aligned, I install the other ring with 5 min epoxy. After this, I go back and mix 30 min epoxy and make a fillet to attach the tube with the ring and fill in any gap of where I removed the inner layer of styrofoam.

Take you time and do not glue in anything until every thing is aligned. Later I will set the final incidences when I install the wing adjusters and the stab locator pin. I useually wait until I have finished sanding the wing and stab before I set incidences.
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Old 11-14-2005, 08:07 AM
  #9  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

keep up the good work[sm=thumbup.gif]

I hope to be ordering a Genesis base kit in the new year, so will be keeping a close eye on this.
Old 11-18-2005, 08:20 AM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Wing Tube Installation

Now that the wing is aligned with the stab, it time to finish the wing tube installation. I simply mix up 30 min epoxy, thinned 30% with alcohol, and milled fiberglass. Don't use too much epoxy to make the fillets around the PBG CF tube socket and the plywood washer at the fuse. The extra epoxy does not add strength.
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Old 11-18-2005, 08:28 AM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Landing Gear Plate Installation

I have had hadr landing and have broken the supplied soft ply landing gear plates. I have substituted 30mm (1/8") hard ply for the landing gear plate. Later when I install my batteries, I add a 1/4" end grain balsa brach to further stiffen the center of the landing gear plate. The plate is reinforced at the fuse sides with two layers of 6oz glass cloth. I did keep the lite ply wood fuse side retainer. I will be using the Bolly F3A Long CF landing gear.
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Old 11-18-2005, 08:41 AM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Hacker C50 13XL motor nose ring installation

I have both the Hacker C50 14XL motor in my Eclipse. For the Genesis, I plan on trying the Hacker C50 13XL motor. I have seen Todd Blose's Genesis with the 13XL motor and like the wider speed envelope he has. The fuse nose ring is fabricated from 1/8" hard plywood and 1/2" wood dowells. The motor mount is fabricated from 1/16" (0.062) CF flex plate. I ordered my flex plate and motor from Espirit Models. It is hard to see, but I install the plywood motor mount in the fuse with clear Permatex RTV. I make up a 1/32" spacer ring to fit behind the spinner. Then I install the engine with the spinner. The 1/32" spacer ring insures the motor is centered with the fuse nose and the right and down thrust matches the angles pre-molded in the fuse. On the Hacker drive washer, I drill and tap two #6-32 holes. I use these holes as puller holes when I remove the drive washer.
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Old 11-18-2005, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Hacker C50 13XL motor rear stabalizer

The stabalizer is made from 0.062" CF flex plate. The fuse mounting tabs are made from 1/8" hard ply. I use 4-40 soc hd cap screws and blind nuts to hold it in place. It is a good idea to trial fit everything including the mounting tabs before you epoxy in the tabs.
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Old 11-19-2005, 01:22 PM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Elevator servo tray installation

For balance reasons, the dual JR DS3421SA elevator servos are located at the rear canopy area. I am using the Central Hobbies DEPS 0.07" CF rods. I have substituted the CST teflon tubes to reduce friction. Before you cut into the fuselage, it is best to fit up the stab with your control horns. I will be using the Central Hobbies Chip Hyde control horns. From the outside of the fuse mark the locations of the servo arms and where the CF rod will exit the fuse. Central Hobbies has a nice set of instructions to use as a go by. For fuse support bulkheads, I use 3/4" x 3/8" light balsa. Cut the fuse sides where the rod exits and align the rods with the servo. Keep everything straight. You do not want any bends in the CF rods. After everything is trial fit, I glue in the supports with 30 min epoxy and microbaloon and milled figerglass. The servo tray was installed with Gorilla glue.
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Old 11-19-2005, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Installation of stab and wing - initial alignment

Before you get too far along, it is a good idea to install the firewall bulkhead to stiffen the nose of the plane and to support the fiberglass front pipe floor.

The hardest part of this phase is deciding what is a good reference point. I set the plane 0-0 reference line with the stab reference dots. It took 3/8" of shim at the tail wheel support with the bottom of the chin cowl bulkhead resting on the table. Both stabs are set at 0 deg. Then I set the wing at 0.3 deg positive. I use the robart incidence jigs and a digital level. Here I have rough sanded the bevel on the LE of both the stabs and wings. Once everything is aligned, I epoxy in the stab anti rotation pin socket (yes I have a removable 1/8" aluminum anti-rotation pin). I also glue in the wing bolt fuse bearing plates.

The final alignment and wing adjustors will be completed after I finish sanding with wings and stabs and monokote them. I hold off on installing the wing adjustors until I have painted the airplane. The wing adjustors get in the way during final fues sanding and surface prep.
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Old 11-19-2005, 11:56 PM
  #16  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Very impressive Steve! You're really cranking along on that plane.

Keep the pictures and descriptions coming, these are some of the best mounting pictures I've seen. It's very interesting how you mounted your motor. Did you use this approach in your other electrics?

Why did you go with the RTV in front, for vibration absorption?

It looks like the rear motor support just BARLEY is over the motor, why didn't you slide it up a bit more to make sure it doesn't slip out?

Could you tell us a little more about the carbon fiber flex plate? What are the properties of this material that convinced you to use it?

Last question, could you elaborate a bit more on the differences between the C50 XL14 and XL13.

Thanks for documenting your progress, it's REALLY helpful!

Keith B
Old 11-20-2005, 07:41 AM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Cooling air derlector baffle installation

Keith,

When I get started building an airplane, it's an obsession. I keep on going until I finish. I have some vacation comming up. So..................................I hope to finish the plane in a week or two.

Attached is a picture from the rear of the motor. The motor actually extends beyond the ring by 1/8". I use RTV now by accident to hold in the motor nose ring. At the North Dallas contest, with my Electric Eclipse, I had a slightly hard landing and the plane nosed over with the engine at idle. Except for hurting my pride and loosing 3/8" off the prop tips, I thought I was OK. On return to the pits, I noticed the engine spinner was not matching the fuse. It seems the jolt of the landing broke out the nose ring microbaloon and epoxy. I simply cleaned off the old microbaloon and reinstalled the ring with clear RTV. I know this stuff sticks to fiberglass. Have you every tried to remove nose weights after they have been installed with RTV. It is almost impossible to remove the RTV. The CF flex plate is similar to the FG flex plate used on the foamys to make control horns. In this case it is a little stiffer and thicker. This is almost the same stuff as the old Bob Violett flex plate.

The 13XL has approx. 13% more RPMs. I like the wider speed range of Todd Blose's Genesis with the 13XL motor. I'll be using the APC 20-15e, 20-13e and 21-12we props to see which one I like the most. Todd's 13 XL with the 20-13 pull some 74+ amps. It's OK with the TP 5300 packs but will be too much with my TP 6000 gen II lite packs. I'll need to practice better throttle management with the 13XL motor.
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Old 11-20-2005, 01:08 PM
  #18  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Thanks for the replies Steve. I wish my projects went that fast!

Keith B
Old 11-21-2005, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Wing servo box installation

The servo mount is made from 1/8" hard plywood. The mount is framed with 1/8" balsa. The Genesis kit already has the locations for the wing servos indicated on the wing skins. The foam is routered out with a Dremmel. I just mix up some thinned 30 min epoxy and microbaloon to make a paste to glue in the wing servo box.
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Old 11-21-2005, 06:06 PM
  #20  
swk550
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Stab wood dowell hard point for the tube mounting screw.

Attached are some more photos.
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Old 11-23-2005, 07:12 AM
  #21  
swk550
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Build weights

The building phase of the plane is finished. Let's see how much weight was added. The weights listed in bold (xxx) are before paint and monokote.

Fuse 21.71oz (29.25)
Canopy 4.37 (4.86)
Cowl 3.11 (3.21)
Total 29.2oz (37.32)

Rudder .98oz (no LE installed) (1.56)

R stab 1.39oz (no LE installed) (2.30)
L stab 1.32 (2.23)
R wing 7.82oz (no LE installed) (10.53)
L wing 7.85 (10.53)
wheel pants 1.3 (1.6)
alum gear 4.8 (will use the Bolly CF gear)
PBG 7/8"x30" 2.6 (will use this CF wing tube instead of the aluminum)
PBG 7/16" 0.7oz approx. (will use the PBG CF tube instead of the aluminum)

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Old 11-23-2005, 07:36 AM
  #22  
swk550
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Fuselage preparation and painting

The fuselage is very good in terms of surface quality. I use 100 grit sand paper to sand the mold seams where the fuse halves are joined together. I usually end up sanding thru the white gel coat and expose some pin holes. I take a pin and mine out all the gelcoat to expose the cavity. I like to use DAP vinyl spackle to fill in the pin holes. Dap is easy to use and it dries fast. This is a multi step process. DAP is smeared on the seams with your finger. After it dries, sand it off with 220 to 320 grit. DAP shrinks, so we need to spackle again to fill up the holes. After it dries, I sand off with 400 grit. Keep repeating the process until the DAP is flush with the surface. Remember DAP is softer than the fiberglass. It is easy to over sand the DAP. Also I lightly sand the fuselage with 400 or 600 grit to remove any mold release and give a better surface for the primer. I apply a thinned coat of PPG K-36 primer over the fuse. I double prime the mold seam areas that were finished with DAP. This helps expose any remaining surface irregularities. After the primer dries, I use DAP to fill in any remaining pin holes (there were almost none, the quality was that good). I come back and do a light spot primer on all remaining areas. It's OK if there are minor shades of white on the fuse. Since I paint the main fuse in white, the difference between the light grey primer and the white gel coat gets covered over with the white PPG concept paint. The trick to keeping the weight down is not to put paint on top of paint. Here I paint my first trim color. The bottom trim color will be painted next followed with the remaining white. I do paint the remaining trim colors (maroon, yellow and metallic blue) over the white. These do not have much surface area to add much extra weight. I use the 3M blue fine line vinyl masking tape at the paint lines.

I'm a one trick horse. I paint all my pattern planes with the same color scheme.
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Old 11-23-2005, 09:02 AM
  #23  
swk550
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Painting tips

I have two types of paints. My white, pink. metallic blue and insignia blue colors are PPG concept. They match my monokote colors very well. My true red, yellow and maroon colors are Dupont Imron. I have had these colors for over 10 years. I simply keep the cans sealed well and they have lasted.

Caution Both paints are toxic; Imron being the worst of the two. My paint jobber recommends painting with a fresh air mask. Since I only have a chemical cartridge mask, I paint outside in the open air. I only mix small amounts and use a detail small touch-up HVLP gun. I turn the gun down as low as I can go and still get good paint coverage. Thin the paint and apply two coats if required. For small trim colors, I use an air brush. I try and keep the overspray to a minimum. Don't breath any overspray fumes. Also, I don't let the dog outside when I am painting.

I let the paint dry for 15 to 30 minutes and then remove the masking tape and paper. This is the time it takes for the paint to tack, but not dry. This allows the paint seam to blend with the fuse better.

Attached are some pictures of my masking and painting of the red trim color. Good luck.
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Old 11-24-2005, 02:22 AM
  #24  
MikeEast
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

Looking really good Steve, cant wait to see it fly!

We clearcoated over the factory paint on my Genesis today with PPG DC3000. It came out great. I was afraid to paint the entire plane since I was told this stuff was very heavy (38% solids) so we just painted the chin cowl and the lower colored area of the plane up to the white to ensure it was fuel proof. It came out perfect and its basically invisible relative to the rest of the plane, but it did go on thick. I only gained 1 ounce at the most , but I wish we had experimented 1st and realized we could have thinned it, I would have painted the whole thing with almost the same amount of clearcoat we used on the bottom. I will say this, it is the easiest clear coat I have ever sprayed there was almost no chance of a run unless you stopped in one spot.

Buddy and I experimented after we finished mine and found that contrary to what the mfg says, you can thin it a good bit and it still comes out shiny. PPG says if you thin it, it will blush and lose its luster. Not true, we clear coated an old chin cowl that still had good paint with a batch diluted about 1/2 with DT885 thinner and it went on nice and flat and had a fantastic shine that it never lost.
Old 11-24-2005, 10:09 AM
  #25  
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Default RE: Genesis basic kit (Electric build)

More monokote and painting pictures

Here are some pictures of the trim color additions to the fuse. It takes me some 2 to 3 hours to mask off the plane, shoot the paint, clean the gun and remove the masking. It is a good idea to remove the masking after the paint tacks. That way the paint line blends better with the fuse.

The stab is monokoted. The geometric patterns are marked on the wings and stab first.
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