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Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Old 03-22-2006, 12:43 AM
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Default Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Some you know I that I was provided a new set of Flight Power 3700 batteries to test. Well, the stars finally aligned and I made two flights with them today, along with four flights with my TP 6000s. The first flight impressions on the differences between the packs were not that substantial, but that changed...

The plane I'm flying now is the Genesis ARF, glow version converted to electric so it's a bit heavier... With the TP 5S3P 6000 ProLites x2 the weight is just about 11.5 lbs. With the new Flight Power 5S1P 3700 x 2 the weight is just under 11 lbs. The difference in weight between the two sets of packs is almost 10 ounces. The Flight Power 3700s come out to be about 34 ounces, the TP 5300s come out at about 39 ounces just for comparison.

I'm also using an Eagle Tree [link=http://www.eagletreesystems.com/MicroPower/Manual/MicroPower%20Press%20Release%20December%2005.pdf]E-Logger[/link] too for this comparison. Today I first flew the TP packs and had a pretty good flight. The flight consisted of the Masters pattern and after the spin a pull up into a full power vertical for a couple of seconds then chopping the power and returning to land. I landed downloaded the flight and looked at the data. My max amps for the flight was 74 and the voltage at that point was roughly 31 v. After I charged the batteries I put back in 20-2100 mah per pack.

I put the 3700s in the plane and took it up. The power was good, but not all that much more impressive I thought. I did the same exact flight as I did with the TPs and brought it back in. After looking at the data I got the following numbers... max amps 84 with the voltage at that point (vertical at the end of the flight) was roughly 33 v. When I charged the batteries, I put back in roughly 1800 mah PER PACK!

I flew one more flight with the Flight Powers and on that flight I did not do a full power climb or try to 'test' the batteries at all... just a normal 'simulated' contest flight with two extra manuvers. The max amps for the entire flight was just 56 during one of the verticals, and the total draw after charging was just 2000 mah per pack for a 9 minute flight!

I flew two more flights with the TP packs and noticed a definite difference in performance. It's likely a combination of the battery chemistry and the difference in weight... let's face it you ARE going to notice 10 ounces!!! But by the end of the last flight I was wishing I had just charged the Flight Powers instead!

Proof is in the pudding, and the TPs that I have been using are great batteries. I cannot and will not say anything against them, they were the best available when I was looking to buy batts for my Impact last year... and they have served me well for over 270 flights combined. They have proved themselves to me in the number of cycles and the dependability they have given me. Time will tell as to how well the Flight Powers do over a season... but so far I am impressed and will be buying another set or two for this season.

Will keep you all posted as to how they work out. Also with the E-Logger I have a lot of data that I need to compile, and will begin playing with that soon. On another note, that is a great product! I have a Wattmeter and it works great and everything, but if you are trying to gather data by yourself you can not beat the E-logger... even if you are doing it on the ground static... just run up the plane and download the data from the comfort of your office chair... that instead of trying to hold onto a plane that is trying to lift off the the stand from the result of 2500 watts+ WHILE trying to note the volts, amps, watts (guess you only really need two out of the three really)... not only that but you can get the information that you really need... from the air. Pretty neat. Having flown pattern (not very well) some 20 years ago... I seriously can't believe how far we've come!!!

Tom Messer



Old 03-25-2006, 12:03 AM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

What is the projected price of these batteries? Where can you get them? Can you post a screen shot of the E-Logger graph of one of your flights? I'll be interested in reading your comments about these batteries after a couple of dozen cycles. I just purchased a couple of Tanic 52 3650 packs. I have also purchase an E-Logger. I don't have a pattern model but I fly 10s in a H9 Funtana 90. Tomorrow the weather final looks good to fly and try out the E-Logger.

Thanks for sharing.

Kelvin
Old 03-25-2006, 12:37 AM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

The 3700 5S1Ps that I have can be found at www.rcmodels.ca for around $209 a pack. I can't post a graph just yet, what the program provides is a bit hard to read. I believe it allows an export to Excel which should yeild a more readable graph. I will have that in about a week. I logged the first few flights, and will log a couple of flights at around 25 cycles and provide those results.

I have ten cycles so far and am still impressed. i had to set up another throttle curve to match the other batteries' (2x 5S3P 6000s by Thunder Power) power curve. So far the Flight Power curve is 5-10% under the Thunder Power. That is still being refined though.

On average I am using about 1900-2000 mah per flight with the Masters pattern with the Flight Power batteries. The consumption with the TPs are 2100-2300 so far.

I think you will really like the E-Logger! It answered some questions that I had, and no doubt will provide the answers to the questions I haven't though of yet!

T. Messer
Old 03-25-2006, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Hi Tom

Did you mount the rpm sensor in your model?

I am trying to figure out how to do that easily....those magnets are awefully small! I guess they have a new optical rpm sensor out now...that might be the ticket.

If you have done it post some pics of it....I am looking for ideas...
Old 03-25-2006, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Hey Chad...

No I haven't installed that yet, and actually hadn't planned on it as I couldn't figure out how to do it. Heard somewhere though that somebody either had tried, or wanted to try, using that sensor to pick up the magnets in the motor. If it works, seems easier to set up than to but those magnets on the shaft or spinner. As long as you can find out how many magnets the sensor would read, the software can divide by that number. Should be easy enough with the AXI. You can definitely feel the magnet when you turn it in your hands! The Plett is much smoother but I'm sure than number could be figured out.

I think that post is on RCGroups but I'm not sure... haven't looked for it.
Old 03-25-2006, 12:49 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Here is a link to the thread on RCGroups about the e-logger. Good info on software updates, and if you scroll through you'll find a guy who has used the hall effect sensor to pick up the RPM off the can of the motor.

[link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468397&pp=15&highlight=logger]elogger thread[/link]
Old 03-25-2006, 05:06 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Im also testing the FP EVO 20 5s2p 3700 cells, so far... awsome, same imressive performance as the other EVO packs i have tested. 60Amp load 3,7v/cell, 92Amp load, 3,51v/cell.

Will use 15s2p 7400 in 36% project.

Old 03-26-2006, 08:07 AM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

I faintly remember that 4C with high pitch propeller did run higher RPM on ground than climbing. This was perhaps because in the groung prop blade stalls while on turbulent air therefore reducing the load. I think if same happens with electric F3A it effects peak current. I am really intrested and if significant it should be kept in mind when someone is going to run system near limits.

Installing magnet(s, 2 for balance) to the spinner backplate and sensor behind should be quite safe and easy.

But you measured current already. Does it indicate propload in different manouvers?
Old 03-31-2006, 03:25 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

hi tom

did i miss something or are you NOT balancing the 3700's? i had to solder out 3 cells after 20 flights from my two 5S packs, after that i decided to charge them seperately as 5S with two cheap hyperion chargers, straight through the balancer-cables. no problems since. the bigger the capacity of the sole cell, the more important balancing is. only a tad more internal resistance in one cell will kill the whole chain under 85A load, if your really unlucky.

cheers,
roger

oh, btw, i am starting to become a real fan of the new TP LiteStorm 5S2P4200, as 10S2P4200 they come in at 30 oz., so another 10% less weight and 13% (probably even 20%) more usable capacity. and a lot less blinking going on on the balancers after the first 20 flights! the state-of-the-art cell. period.
Old 03-31-2006, 03:48 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

I have never had to balance any of my EVO packs, with other cell types i have to balance them after 5-10 sycles.

Old 03-31-2006, 11:28 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Roger, I'm kind of confused as to what you meant by 'balanced'... did you mean between the five cells in the pack like with a balancer, or between the two packs to ensure the voltages are withing a hundredth of a volt?

As far as between the two packs, yes I am balancing them, but out of the 12 or so flights with said packs I have only had to adjust the voltages a couple of times. As far as between the cells within the pack, yes and no.

The first 10 cycles were made without balancers. After the 10th flight I got my adapters to the TP balancers and was able to balance them while they charged. So for the last couple of flights they have been in fact balanced.

With the TP packs I have, the balancers were not available until I had some 30 or 40 flights... and they are still working perfectly well at around 140-150 cycles per set.

Tom M.
Old 04-01-2006, 02:08 AM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

I mean the cells in the pack.

Old 04-01-2006, 01:55 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

tom, sorry for not making myself clear enough...think, write, check! i meant balancing the cells in the 5S pack. i know there still are real men out there that do it without[:@] but you could get away with that with the relatively small cells in the early days-F3A-packs. but with the larger single cell capacities of the newer breed, it'll end in tears sooner or later, so, like in real life: always use one, a balancer, of course!

roger
Old 04-05-2006, 04:34 AM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Roger,

I seem to have the same problem myself lately... I have brilliant insights to the truths of electric pattern flight... except for one thing... typos and getting facts messed up in my head. Luckily for me, and those who may read my posts, there are a few who keep me honest... lol

The Flight Powers are working really well, and as the season starting heating up, I'm looking forward to how they perform. My current set up leaves a bit to be desired, but with enough practice it will become comfortable. Right now I have one Flight Power pack, and two TP packs (soon to be relegated to other duties hopefully) to fly with, and am trying to get the throttle curves to match. It's tough, but soon I think I will have the Flight Power's curve set how I like it. For the record, I've had to de-tune the Flight Power packs' curve... in the next couple of weeks that should be settled...

As far as the balancers go... I didn't use them for the first ten or so flights, but after that it didn't take too many minutes (maybe 10) to settle the voltages between the cells. I think I flew 20 or more flights with the TP packs before the balancers were even available, and they have lasted over 150 cycles per set so far... so from that experience, I think I am okay for not introducing the balancer from the very beginning. The earlier the better, but I don't think it a dozen cycles without will hurt you... as long as you observe the other guidelines that is.

It's been raining in California quite a bit lately, practice time has been at a premium. Hopefully things will settle down soon as the contest season starts in earnest here at the end of the month!

Tom
Old 04-05-2006, 06:48 AM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Does anyone know who cells they are REmarketing? Who assembles them?
Old 04-05-2006, 07:28 AM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

ORIGINAL: dentdoc

Does anyone know who cells they are REmarketing? Who assembles them?
Enerland cells assembled by FlightPower.
Old 05-01-2006, 03:57 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Tom, how have the flightpowers held up for you? Would appreciate hearing the number of flights and your impression of how they are doing as far as capacity and power delivery go. Thanks!
Old 05-01-2006, 06:11 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Sorry, guess I made a few promises about providing data and never delivered... sorry about that. I still have to run a few E-logger flights again and see how the batteries are performing.

I have shelved my TP 5S3P 6000 in favor of the Flight Power 3700s and added two sets for a total of three. They are holding up pretty well, and I have some 36 cycles on my first set and a combined 16 cycles on the other two. I have been playing with props quite a bit lately, moved up to a 20x15 from a x13 to increase the flight speed a bit. I don't have enough time on that set up quite yet to see if it's what's right for me, but the plane is grooving a bit better. For a Masters flight now I am pulling out about 26-2800 mah right now with this prop. That's up from the 22-2400 average with the 20x13. But like I said, I'm still experimenting.

The batteries offer a definite power increase from what i was using, and so far the capacity is not an issue with up to Masters flying. I'm going to loan a set to a friend who flys FAI next week and we'll see what he comes up with.

As far as balancing goes, we now have a handful of adapters from Flight Power batteries to the TP 5 cell balancers, with more coming. I guess I should also state that I sell the Flight Powers now too, which is one reason I have been a bit silent on the boards as of late... I would be happy to answer any questions anybody might have about the batteries via PM or email.
Old 05-01-2006, 06:32 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

I thought Duralite had North America rights for Flightpower.
Old 05-01-2006, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Not exclusive, Pacific Models distributes them as well.
Old 05-02-2006, 01:06 AM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

I'm going to loan a set to a friend who flys FAI next week and we'll see what he comes up with.
That will be very interesting.
Just keep a close look at the capacity.
I regularly use more than 4000 mAh on the P07, and I know that others exceed 4000 as well. It all depends on flying style, conditions etc.

Are these cells similar to the 5000 mAh packs? (2x2500)

Magne
Old 05-02-2006, 01:27 AM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

The 3700s are 5S1P... capacity is a concern, but we have a local flyer who reportedly does the P-07 in the low 2000s... he has a REALLY light airplane though. I do believe the 3700s can do it... but you would have to excercise some discipline with the flying technique and set up. Like I said though, we'll see. It may be just too tight of a margin with most set ups and airplanes.

There is a possibility of a 5s2p set up at 4300 mah with weights similar, within an ounce, of the TP 5300s... haven't had a set made up yet though.
Old 05-13-2006, 11:14 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

I recieved my 3 sets of 3700's Friday and tested them in my new Focus 2 today.
A little over 10 and a half pounds with packs. Running the Axi 5330 F3A motor, Jeti 90 Esc, and a 22x12 prop. Power is amazing with these batteries. It was good with the Tp 5300's but with the Flight powers it is just amazing. Huge difference in power. It was the maiden for the plane and I need a new throttle curve with the Fp's, but I flew the masters pattern in 20mph wind and gusting alot harder and only pulled out 2650mah. Obviously early still, but I think I can get that number down to 2500 easy.
I look forward to more flights tomorrow. Just hope the wind goes away!!
Chris
Old 05-13-2006, 11:58 PM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Your still under 80% of capacity which is great saving 6 oz over thunder power 5300. I know you guys are using Pacific and I can't find the 10s1p see the 5s 3700's and what a great price also.
Steve Maxwell
Old 05-14-2006, 12:51 AM
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Default RE: Flight Power 3700 10s1p Initial Impressions

Steve.
We are both using 2 of the 5s1p 3700's.
You can order direct through Tom, or at Pacific. Richard is very helpful there. I just got my 3 sets from him (6 total), and he said he had plenty in stock. Yes the price is pretty good.
The thing with these 3700's is you have to treat them as 3700's. Fly your pattern and land. Set your timer and don't go extra. But, man, if you get some 3700's and you have flown the tp's, you are going to be impressed with these. And also, you will need a new throttle curve. Not that there is anything wrong with the Tp's. They are great batteries.
Honestly not trying to hype these up or anything. If you were local, I'd let you fly them in your plane... It would sell itself at that point.
I didn't think I would be this impressed. I've been excited about them since I got home from the field. Kinda like I got a new plane or something, lol. I can't wait to get back to the field..
Any q's feel free to ask.
Chris

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