elan120

My Feedback: (1)

After sitting on the fence for a while, I am starting to get more interested in moving towards the electrics. The main motivations are well known like engine problem, dirty exhaust, more wear and tear on air frame and radio gears, the need of keeping an inventory of fuel…etc., but since I have not accumulated enough hand-on experience to know the draw-backs in electrics, I am hoping to gain more knowledge in pros and cons plus do's and don'ts of electrics.

Meanwhile, if you can start all over again, what gears and equipment would you purchase? For the simplicity reason, my preference is to stay with outrunner motor/ESC setup; are there any negatives in doing this?

Thank you, and appreciate all your inputs. Hopefully this will help me shorten the learning curve.
Kevin

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Kevin,

There is enough information on this site to choke a large barnyard animal for sure. Given that you can find enough info to chart your own way and figure out what makes sense for you.

What would I have done differently? Well hindsight being 20/20 I think I would have not tried to convert glow airplanes to electric. I started with my YS powered Eclipse and just ripped everything out. It's a quick way to get what you want, it can be done, but there are obvious issues that must be overcome, namely weight, when you do that. When you build an electric from the beginning, you can build it much lighter when you don't have to take vibration into consideration. When starting out you are best served by having something simple and clean. I also tried to have a well known plane at the time built for electric, and even as a glow plane had weight issues. Compounding that, it was a damaged kit that required repair, and that worked against me as well. Turned into a 12.5 lb (maybe a little more) plane... flew well, as long as you had power.

Also to power that heavy one, I went with an obscure motor (obscure in these parts, not the world). It performed fine, it was an early generation so a little low on power compared to the motors around today. It got damaged in a rogue wind in the pits incident, so I had to sent it out of the country for repair... twice. And that set me back in both time and money. I should have thought better of that at the time. But you do have to consider that this was pretty much in the beginning and the only motor people were running were geared Hackers. Also a fine motor, but the gearbox put me off a bit.

I later found good success with the AXI/Jeti combo, and had one of the first /F3A motors running in the states, definitely in the west. Finally I had found something workable. The problem again was weight. It made my heavy airplane even heavier, but at least it had enough power.

I later ended up with another well known plane that again came out heavy. This time the reason was I bought it off somebody who had a heavy glow mount installed in the nose. No amount of grinding could get all of it out, but I could make it flyable. Then to make weight I was forced to use smaller batteries... 3700s. They worked great for up to Masters... but depending on the conditions, Masters could be a bit too much. I did however use them in FAI in a lighter plane later... pushing it, but it was possible.

I've rambled a bit, but to sum it up the lesson here now is to not mess around. I'm not saying spend a lot of money, it's cheaper than ever to get into electrics these days. But get a dedicated plane, one that people have reported good success flying and making a reasonable weight. Hopefully, one that is flying around in your area.

Second, motor/esc combo. Go with something that you can find flying around you (not always possible when i started) and that is affordable. Motors can be had for anywhere from $115 to $600, depending on what you want. You said you wanted to fly outrunners, look at the DualSkys, AXI, and Hacker in that order of price... Pletts are a bit more but I understand they have phenominal power. Just not supported in the US very well. I would bet that the prices will come down even further here shortly with the emergence of the Chinese motors... some of those can be had for $60 or so... we've flown a few and so far so good... nothing in a pattern plane though yet.

ESC... for starting out go with a Jeti or a Hacker (repackaged Jeti with a few more features), they are bullet proof and proven, as is the Castle ESCs if you know somebody that is running them. They have had issues, but if you know somebody who has those sorted out, it's something to think about... very affordable.

Batteries, this is where you can save money now. Name brand stuff... Flight Power, Thunderpower, Plolyquest... all use essentially the same cells (Enerland). Some have different configs and sizes though. You won't go wrong with any of the three. I have hundreds and hundreds of flights on Flight Powers and know them well, a solid brand.

However these days there are a few off brands that a few guys have been trying and having some success with. I have flown some of the HXT 4100 5s packs from Hong Kong and have been very impressed so far. Only have maybe 10-15 flights on each set, but so far the power is good and you can't beat the price... $85 a pack! So that's $170 a set... add shipping though and you are close to $200, but that's close to half was the name brands are. I do however firmly believe that you get what you pay for, so I would recommend for patern at least, that you wait for a season or so to see how these work out. By the end of this year I would think either everybody will be flyng batteries like these, or nobody will. No need to be a test pilot when you first get started, it's enough of an adjustment. The warranties on the the above name brands are pretty good and should you have issues, they'll take care of you, esp FP and TP (both of whom I have had experience with).

When you are choosing batteries go with a MINIMUM capacity of 4000... preferably something in the 5000 mah range. Newbies to electrics tend to use the throttle more than they need to and pull excess current. Not a big deal if you have big batteries, but it can be a problem with the smaller ones. As you progress you can use less capacity, but batteries in that range will suit you well as you progress.

One other thing, spend some time watching the electric guys fly. The throttle is not digital (on or off), it's being used throughout the flight. Use only what you need. Watch how they set up their throttle curves, ask them about it. Shorting plugs etc... all can seem complicated when just read off of here, but one on one it's makes more sense. Pick as many brains as you can... you'll find that at a contest the electric guys are always willing to talk about their set up and what's new in the industry. Most of them anyway.

Good luck.

Tom M.

<edited for content/typos>

elan120

My Feedback: (1)

Tom,

Thank you for taking the time to provide such detailed information. I have been searching here and elsewhere to gain knowledge and find a proper angle to ease into electrics. The steps I am taking are somewhat conservative, but it helps to educate myself on what to expect once I am ready to jump in with both feet. I have recently started flying an Angel 50 during lunch with a pair of 5S FP 5350 packs, thinking I could later use them in the 2M as well, and it has been giving me some prospective in this e-world. In addition, I am starting to collect different equipment as well, such as charger, data logger…etc. To go one more step forward, your suggestion of AXI/Jeti combo is on top of my shopping list, but would like to know more about the differences between Opto 77 versus 90.

Regarding the airframe, originally, I was thinking about converting my back up plane, which is a Focus-II to electrics, and I think you do have a good point about the weight, and it does make sense to look for other airframes instead.

Any inputs on the field charging set up? In my case, since I have been practicing in Tomcats field lately, I can use their AC outlet to charge, and the only time I will re-charge at the field is during the contest. This is the reason why I am still having a hard time to visualize running generator, but not sure if there are drawbacks using the deep-cycle battery?

I guess I need to find some time to go visit either Hollister or Sacramento and pick brains, meanwhile, could you elaborate further on the maintenance and spare parts requirements?

Thank you,
Kevin

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

There really are only a couple of differences. Weight, cost, and heat dissipation. The 90 weighs a little bit more, costs a little more, but is nearly bullet proof at higher current levels. The 77 is cheaper, lighter, but at the higher amperages you might, and I mean might have an issue with heat. I haven't had that problem, and I have sold plenty to people who haven't had a problem either, it's just a manufacturer warning. As long as is you don't throw on a 24" prop, run it at full throttle, and have zero cooling across the 77, you'll likely be fine. If you don't want to worry about it, opt for the 90, might not be a bad idea when you are starting out anyway.

You must make sure that you have adequate cooling over the components. Don't forget the exit hole. There are plenty of pics online to get an idea of what works, but make sure your motor and esc has plenty of air going over them, batteries as well.

I built a Focus 2 for electric and it's a good model for electrics when you build it up with that purpose in mind. Mine was right at the weight limit with the AXI and 40 oz batteries, my father's is at just over 10 lbs, but that's with the 3700s and a 5320 motor. A good combo for the lower classes, a little light though. With TP 5300s it comes in at about 10.5 and that's a good weight IMHO.

Converting from a flying glow Focus... can be done, but you are going to be just over 11 lbs with normal batteries and motors. Using a DualSky over the AXI would help as you would save a couple ounces. Changing servos would help too. Great flying airplane though!

Only a couple fields here in District 7 have AC outlets, so it is definitely something to keep in mind when planning for the season. If your regular field has AC available, I'm not sure a generator is necessary. We have a generator and AC here in Fresno available, but you have to be a 'special' member to have access to it, so I have used deep cycles for the last couple of years primarily. For me, the only downside to that is the weight of the batteries. I bought mine at Costco, they used to have a one year warranty, if you take it back within that year, you get a new one... funny, mine always seemed to run out of juice right before that year was up. $50 or so for the battery and all you need is a charger for it at home... For contests I would take two of the batteries or one plus a charger.

If money isn't an issue, a generator is much lighter to haul around. I have a bad back and have to be careful lugging the deep cycles around. It'd doable, and the expense of a generator is prohibitive to me, but it's something I have to be careful about.

As far as maintenance issues... there really aren't any when you have an outrunner. No regular maint is needed and it is pretty close to plug-n-play. You'll have to try a few props to figure out what works best for your plane and your style... It used to be that you HAD to run a 22x12, because the guys at the forefront were using that. Now the trend seems to be a smaller prop with higher pitch. I'm running a 20x13, and I hear good things about the 20.5x14, but I haven't tried it yet. Again, it depends on what works best for you. Plan to try a couple different sizes.

One thing to keep tabs on until you get used to flying these types of electrics is current draw. Make sure you have a watts up meter or equivalent and use it any time you change a prop. Keep a written log on current, volts, and RPM while you are at it. It will help you 'see' what is going on with the motor and how your system is running. Once you find a set up you like, I would suggest plugging in the meter every once in a while just to get an idea what you are pulling. This was really a good idea when electrics were first being used as there was a potential problem with de-magnetizing of the Hacker inrunners. I think that was more due to the lack of knowledge available at the time as to how to operate these things... if you ran the wrong prop, you could get the motor hot enough to demag the motor. The result was that the motor would pull more current for the same amount of power, and you could burn up the weak link in your system... the esc or the batts.

I haven't heard of that happening much anymore, but if you have an issue with your motor, it's an early warning that you might have a problem. Another way to figure this out is to keep tabs on how much you put back into the batteries when you charge them. I don't do that much anymore, but when I was starting and testing batteries, i wanted to know EXACTLY how much capacity I was using. Once I got a baseline, I could see if something wasn't right or had changed.

Also, when you are planning on a plane, you have to think about how you are going to mount it. Either from the firewall, or the nosering, there are advantages and issues with both. I have had three airplanes with nosering mounts, with no problems. I have had two mounted to the firewall... I am not going to re-hash all that has been posted on here, but it's something to look into. However you plan on mounting it, make sure the motor is solidly attached. You don't want the nose to flex if you mount it on the nosering, and you don't want the firewall to flex if mounted to that.

Props, when using APC props make sure you ream out the holes with respect to the hub, NOT the pilot hole that it comes with. On some of the props the pilot hole is not centered. We have seen issues with outrunners with not-so-firm mounted AXIs and suspect props.

The DualSky motors are worth looking into as well. Half the cost of the AXIs and plenty of power. Their kV ratings might also be a bit better suited to the flying style today. I'm still flying an AXI and have not purchased a DualSky, but there are a few guys who have had pretty good success with them and they are worth considering.

Also want to point out that I'm not endorsing or promoting any brand of motors or batteries here. I did sell supplies at one time, but my online store will close here shortly and I am no longer 'biased' that way.

My Black Magic is nearly done and will have the HXT batteries, Jeti esc, and maybe a Chinese motor... maybe.

Regards,

Tom M.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Tom's advice is spot on.

I want to stress that by far and wide the easiest is to simply copy (regardless of cost) someone in your area that has a good working (by that I mean they have had a lot of successful flights with no problems) setup. I say regardless of cost simply because if you stray and try and figure things out on your own or use something not proven, its very likely you will end up spending more in the long run to get it working/figure it out.

Electric is not like glow, just because someone else is flying E-pattern does not mean they can troubleshoot and figure your problem out for you like you can with glow motors. Most understand their setup only, and its not so simple to troubleshoot something not working with different motors/escs unless you have used them.

I was one of the first guys using outrunners in F3A, and let me tell you its been a long uphill climb to get to where we are today. Trying to pioneer something is brutally expensive and time consuming! I would not change what I did, as I hope it helped to open doors to alternatives from the Hacker inrunners.

Look around and benefit from your buddies experiences

elan120

My Feedback: (1)

Tom, Chad,

Appreciate all the inputs. I do have strong intention to “copy� the working setup rather than reinvent the wheel, and most likely I will go with AXI/DualSky motor and Jeti 77 ESC to start, and this simply because few local people already been running them, so I might have better chance to tap into their experience.

Based on the Focus-II that I just finished over the winter, I was surprise to see my AUW without fuel was 10 lbs and 12 oz, but if there are some possibilities to make it at or below 11 lbs, I am going to exam further to see if this could be an alternative. After all, DZ170 with Hatori exhaust, plus Hyde mount isn’t “light� per se. If this is not going to make it, I might have to wait a little longer, since the season is right around the corner, and I rather spend more time practice than working on another plane.

Based on your inputs, I gather that spares parts count could actually be lower than glow setup, which is somewhat refreshing. But the part about the prop hole reaming, I am still somewhat at a lost in terms of using the hub as reference, perhaps I do need to see one in person to comprehend what this means.

So far, I think I am on the right track learning the ins and outs about the electrics, things like balancing the batteries, logging the put back current and voltage readings when charging batteries, and monitor the current, voltage, and wattage with different props…etc. in fact, I am thinking perhaps I should also consider getting an EagleTree and keep a database going on the battery performance to help understand how long of a lifespan battery will last before getting “tired�. Since there are so many gismos out there that seem to be “important� to have, some of them I am not even sure if they are must have or good to have items. Maybe that is the reason why it is difficult to jump in with both feet.

Again, thank you for the information; they have accelerated my learning for sure.
Kevin

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I have an Eagle Tree and it's worth the investment. I would take the laptop out to the field, do a flight with a run up in the beginning to get a baseline, and fly a normal flight. Neat device.

To clarify the hub issue, check out the following link and scroll down to the bottom of the page, as they say a picture is worth a thousand words!

http://www.clcombat.info/props.html

In order to get a true hole for the shaft I use a drill press... very very carefully, to drill the hole with respect the the recess. Hope that makes sense.

elan120

My Feedback: (1)

Tom,

Thank you for the link, that picture did a wonderful job, and I will pay attention drilling the prop hole with this in mind.

Based on your input, I think I will go ahead to get an Eagle Tree as well, meanwhile, if you have other equipment that you think belongs to "must have" category, please let me know, and I will see about getting them to build up my inventories.

Thank you,
Kevin

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Kevin,

I wouldn't say that the Eagle Tree is a 'must have'. I would rate it as a 'nice to have'... some sort of watt meter is a 'must have'. If you don't have a watt meter, the Eagle Tree can serve as one, but also provides more in depth information as to what is going on. I haven't used mine in a while, but if I start experimenting again, I definitely will. If you just have a watt meter, or a watts up meter, that should work fine. MAKE SURE HOWEVER that it will display over 70 amps. The Watts Up will, the newer version of the Astro Flight watt meter doesn't...

Chad,

Thanks for the comment. I have to agree with you wholeheartedly, it's expensive for sure to be a pioneer (don't consider myself one mind you). You guys were playing with the Evos long before I tried, just found that logistically the AXI line worked better for me... that experimentation costs a pretty penny. It's better to let the established guys forge the path until you get a handle on what you are doing... THEN experiment and try new things if you so choose.

Sorry I missed the Phoenix contest, could have bought you that beer we talked about a looong time and another life ago! Another time perhaps.

Regards,

Tom M

elan120

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Tom, I thought I have a watt meter already until now. I am going to get a WattsUp meter to replace my Astro Flight meter, which will only be used to check current put back during battery charge now.

Regards,
Kevin

woodie

Kevin,

As you know, I installed all the gear in my son's Integral. With a Dualsky 6360-12T, TP5300s and Jeti 77 controller, we were slightly under the 11lb target.

If you want, I can send you pix of a nosering installation that seems to work well. At least, we haven't had any issues with it installed in about 5 planes I have put it in so far.

Don Atwood

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Ya you missed out Tom, Jason, Tony, Dan, Nedim and I ended up in Hooters for the beer!

Was a good time!

elan120

My Feedback: (1)

Don,

That will be great. I am still toying with the idea about converting my back up plane (Focus-II) to electrics, and by looking at different components weight, I think the possibility of using Dualsky 6360 is very good if I can use FP 4250 packs. Could you advise the average battery current consumption rate?

Thank you,
Kevin

woodie

Kevin,

the consumption rate (amps) is dependant on prop load. We run 21x13 or 20.5x14 and are below 70 amps max during a flight. A typical Masters pattern flight is around 3500-3800 mah flying pretty big and fast. For Sportsman and Intermediate, I am guessing less than 2300 and Intermediate might be around 2500-2800 depending on flying style, etc. For anything less than Masters, 4250 should be fine but if you can carry the weight of larger batteries, they will provide a certain 'buffer' of reserve capacity.

One thing to be aware of is there is a learning curve when you switch to electric. You will have a tendency to use as much power as you have available at first. Once you get used to the power curve, you will begin to taper off on your total usage per flight as the speeds become more consistent and you figure out you don't necessarily have to go to full throttle in certain places. The other thing you need to really watch to start with is 'extending' a flight to practice a maneuver over and over. That is a real easy way to over discharge your battery. I fly a sequence each time I go up and if I leave the sequence or fly more at the end am very aware of how long I have been up. It is easy to just keep flying.... not a good thing with electrics. When I first started flying electric for FAI, I was using over 4000 mah consistently. After a few weeks, I noticed my total usage for a sequence began to drop off and continued to decline over the next few months. Now I use about 75% of what I originally used.

When I began flying electric pattern, I pretty much copied what Tom Messer had been using to not 're-invent' the wheel. It worked very well for me. The other thing Tom advised me to do was go with the largest battery I could use and still make weight. I used TP5300s and they have done very well for me. I will admit I went over the 80% rule of discharge/usage on more than one occasion and it was always when I didn't stick to a sequence or planned flight. With glo, you are limited by the fuel on board, if you run out, you just land deadstick. With electrics, if you run out of 'juice', there is the possibility of damaging your batteries.

Don Atwood (Woodie)

elan120

My Feedback: (1)

Don,

Thank you for the input. If I convert the Focus to electric, the initial plan is to use the FP5350 that I have to see what kind of consumption rate I am getting, but I don't think I will make the weight limit with this combo. Perhaps I should use this conversion as learning experience and not worry about the weight issue, after all, I need to find a starting point somehow.

As far as the choice in Dualsky motor, between the 11T and 12T, which one do you think is a better fit? I am leaning more towards the 11T due to higher kv rating, but for sure could use some input though.

Meanwhile, when you have a chance, I sure would like to see your nose ring motor installation. Certainly don't want to have the nose section ripped out by the motor...

Thank you,
Kevin

bdavison

My Feedback: (1)

One thing Id recommend is using the timer on your radio.
If you have a 9C, you can program two timers into the radio. I program one as the countdown for a normal flight, and the other as "MAX" limit timer.

For example. At takeoff, I flip "H" switch on my 9C. It starts both timers. At 5min, the first timer goes off, and then at 7min second timer goes off.

The first timer gives me a heads-up as to where Im at, and the second timer lets me know its TIME to land.

Also the 9C will beep every minute during countdown to also give you a reference.

Once you learn how long you can fly and not drain the lipos flat, use the timer to keep aware of where your batteries are at.

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Hey Kevin.

I run the 11T with the Flight Power 5350's on a Jeti 90.. It is identical IMO to the Axi 5330/F3A. Except a little lighter. It has way more than enough power in all conditions.. I haven't tried the 12T yet, but I will put one in my Extreme Flight Yak soon. I think it's probably better for certain situations as it has a lower Kv (bigger props, lower amps)..
I'd let you fly the Abbra, but unless you fly the Airtronics Stylus, it's pretty impossible.. Well, unless you fly ailerons throttle on the left. lol...
You'll be happy either way you go I figure.. The 12 may be easier on the batteries. Although in flight, you don't use the motor to it's full capacity.

If I was to do it again, not sure really.. I may have gone Hacker inrunner if money was no issue at that time.. But I doubt it.. I really wanted to go outrunner for the ease.. If I did it now, I may go with the Cyclon.. Actually, at least two of them.. Seeing as if one needs to be sent in, they are usually on break overseas.. Gotta love a country that shuts down, lol.. Man, I gotta go there.. haha

You'll like your E focus.. Tom and I both loved ours.. If the focus wasn't so expensive, I would consider another..

Good luck Kev..

Chris

elan120

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Chris,

Good to hear from you, and thank you for the input. After more reading here and elsewhere, plus lots of good inputs through emails, I have narrowed down to just few choices now. Lately, I have been pondering between converting the Focus versus just getting a new airframe and keep the Focus as a back up still. Decisions, decisions. By the way, any tips on Focus conversion in case I decided to head towards that route?

Initially, I plan to use outrunner for its simplicity, and since Dualsky is very reasonably priced, I think it will be the right motor to get my feet wet, and most likely it will be the 12T first.

Thanks for the offer to let me try your Abbra, and I knew there has to be a good reason for me to learn mode-1, and now I am going to miss it…

Hope to see you at the BARCS contest in April.

Kevin

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Focus conversion, well, I probably have pics somewhere.. Didn't get too many flights on it before she locked out on me.. Still not sure what happened. Plane flew very good electric though.. It's a pretty easy conversion IMO.. Go with the Esprit models motor mount, lightened of course. DS 6360, Jeti 90 or CC if that's your preference, and the 5350's.. Use a 2 cell lipo receiver pack, in the 400 to 1300 range depending on how much you want to fly and your overall weight (if you care about the weight). Get rid of the belly pan, put covering over the hole, but leave an exit hole somewhere for the exit air.. Another thing to think of is a new cowl.. I assume you have holes in it that you won't need with electric.. You want to keep the air in there and channel it over the batteries and out the rear.. I usually try to mount my esc somwhere where the chin cowl opening is so that it gets more than enough cooling.. Also, you can baffle the air around the motor, esc, and batteries if they run warm. I do recommend that you try to get air through the windings (with some type of ducting) in the motor with the outrunners. Cooling the outside is one thing, but cooling the inside of the motor is key IMO..
I'll see what I can dig up for pics.. Not sure where they are. On a disc somewhere..

C

tewalker01

My Feedback: (5)

Hey Chris,

Thanks for the input, I'm converting to electric also so your views are helpful. Kevin and I fly together and we both have discussed this at length so his questions are very relevant. I decided to go with the Dualsky 6360 12T and a Jeti Advance 90 plus with programming card. I've had several discussions with Don Atwood (who is very knowledable in this area) and I chose the Dualsky based on simplicity (outrunner - no gear drive), the 12T (bigger props, lower amp draw), and oh yeah... price ($135). I chose the Jeti 90 for protection from burning up the ESC when I do something stupid (which I know will happen).

Also, I will be more that happy to fly your plane (from one mode I flyer to another... )

Terry

OhD

I agree with the guys that said to watch someone who is having success and copy what they are doing. That is what I did and at that time it was the Hacker inrunner, Hacker ESC and TP 5300 Prolites. All are still good choices choices but I would not do that again with what I know now. I'd go with the Dualsky 6360 12T over the 11T. Remember that as Kv goes up, Kt (torque per Amp) goes down. I have about 190 flights on my 12T and it has never been out of the airplane. I still prefer the Hacker Master 90 ESC although I have tried the Jeti Spin 99 which has some nice features. I have friends flying ESCs from China that seem to work well but they are not in pattern setups. I'm still looking at what my next batteries will be. I'm flying some TrueRC 5000s that are doing very well even though they are only rated at 10C. The good news is they cost $110 for a 5s compared to something like $300 for the Prolites. I'm beginning to think I could give up some capacity for lower weight but that might cost more if you also want a higher C rating. In any case you can go electric at a fraction of the cost I had a few years ago.

Jim O

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Actually Terry, depending on what radio you fly, I fly mode 3 or 4.. I fly ailerons throttle left stick, rudder elevator right stick.. Opposite of mode 1.. But if you can get your hands on a Airtronics Stylus, and you want to make a trip to Tracy, you are welcome.. I can transfer the program to a stylus easy.. Why can't I live closer to all you cats in the bay that fly pattern? lol.. Would make for good practice.. There's no one out here..

C

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

There's something to say for watching what's already working.. That's for sure.. But with the constantly changing electric scene, it's also nice to try something new that isn't working, and proving that it can work.. That's why people are trying cheap batteries.. And some seem to be making it work.. My opinion on batteries after taking many apart, is that you get what you pay for mostly.. Not always, but mostly.. This also goes with motors and esc's.. If you are just making the journey into the electric scene, I do recommend that you spend the money and buy something with a good warranty and reputation, as with little experience with the electrics, this can cause you great headaches.... The Dualsky warranty that I have seen is only 30 days.. I don't even have a motor or batteries installed for 30 days after I get them, lol.. So on my first runup, it's out of warranty, lol.. I had my 11T for about 10 flights before it started making noises.. It hasn't got worse, but it's always there.. Still haven't tried the backup.. Maybe soon..
The Hacker, Axi, Thunderpower, Flight Power warranties seem pretty good from what I've seen..
You get what you pay for sometimes..
Just my silly opinion..

C

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Jim,

Since you brought up the subject again, Hobby City has a new battery for sale within the last couple days.

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=6499

Weight as posted comes out to about 42 oz for two 5000 5s packs, rated at 15 C. Price? $89 a pack. Quick calculations with shipping yields about $400 to your door for two sets. I haven't tried them yet, I am flying the 4100s that are about 38 oz a set and having good luck. The prices are indeed coming down.

Tom M

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

One thing I should have put into my last post... I'm not recommending that you go out and purchase the latest cheap battery... like many of us have said, go with what works. For those lurking and thinking about taking the plunge into electrics, don't NOT do it because of cost. Still a bit more expensive now for sure, but the day is coming when electric pattern will be inarguably cheaper than glow, and I don't think those days are too far away. Style, weight, preference, will still be arguments for and against electrics, but cost won't be.

When you are starting out, don't be a test pilot, it's a big enough learning curve to begin with, go with something that is proven. Let the nuts try out the new stuff, and we'll pass around the results. [8D]