tommy s

My Feedback: (55)

You guys flying with all that ice on the ground.....how are you warming your batteries before flying ?

tommy s

hezik

The dowels are still glued in in mine, however, the pin that holds the gear-fairing in place, came loose (before ever flying) Had to reglue it. Less important than a wingdowel, but still worth to check every now and then.

Andy P.

Looking good Steve, be good to see them in action next season!

Regards,

Andy.

underwoodsteve

hey,tom,andy,
the batteries are in the foot well on the way to the site with the heater blower on , works great , and was a warm day to say the least for december in the uk , andy , the wind twins are coming on a real treat now , so yes you will see them soon..

regards
steve

hezik

Temperatures here were above 0 degrees celcius when I was flying, and lipo's have no problems with that. Keep 'm inside and at room temperature, just plug 'm in to fly, fly, and bring 'm back inside again.. no problem whatsoever.

For the first flights of an electric bird, to me, cold weather is preferable. That way you can get logdata with several props, without running too much risk of overheating anything.

ie the max temperature on the CC ICE HV 80, was 27C (80.6F), from a 6C (42.8F) starting point. Engine stayed below 25C.

tclaridge

Hezik,
Having flown both the Wind 110e and the Pro, how do they compare? Do they "feel" the same? Do they have the same characteristics?

Brenner

Probably works okay if you don't have a foot of lake effect snow on the ground ...

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

They arent even close. They actually arent the same plane. The Wind 110 has a double taper wing, whereas the Wind S Pro and the Wind S 50e both have the swept wing. The Wing 110 is actually closer to the Angel S. It flies really well, but presents different and feels differently in the air,

Arch

matt13

No problems keeping my batteries warm before a flight, it was 35degrees last time I flew, batteries were at 45degrees on landing as was the Jet99, the AXI was 55degrees C after three back to back flights. Matt[8D]

Alfonso Garcia

Also no problems for us last Saturday, temperature 16ºC, We do not need to take care of batteries or motor temperature, Jeti Spin was 33ºC, sun and no wind. And we are not in spring.....
Alfonso.

hezik

Difficult question.. I have only flown 3 flight so far on the 2m, so it might be a bit premature.

As rcpattern pointed out, they are not the same aircrafts. The WindS 110 is not similar to the Angel, it IS an Angel. I have asked Sebart this year if they would bring a new 110 to the market, which is a real WindS, and in his answer he confirmed that the 110 was actually an angel, and that there won't be a 'real WindS 110' in 2010. Maybe the coming year?

However.. both the 110 and the 2m are fine planes. Value for money, the 110 is unbeatable. As I said, I haven't flown the 2m enough to say anything definate, but the difference between the two is what one would expect. The 2m feels more 'solid' in the air, you have to do far less steering to keep it in line, it's less succeptable to wind.

It needs less rudder on knife edge and less down on inverted flight. Also, with the incidence I have now, it comes down in a straight line, whereas the WindS 110 wants to climb out of it a little. Also I had to trim the 110 up, the 2m doesn't need any trims.

So far it seems mine doesnt need any mixers either. It tracks straight in knife edge and has no rolling tendencies. The WindS had a small rudder/elevator mix for left rudder knife edge, and a small rudder/roll mix for both KE's to keep it from rolling out, which it did very slightly.

In short.. the 110 is as good as you'll get in that size and that money. The 2m is slightly bigger and, all else aside, therefor better.

I've flown a lot with the 110, if I were to compete NOW against myself, the 2m vs the 110, the 2m would win. Even though I really know the 110 and am just starting to know the 2m.

hezik

Here's mine in the cold.. if you look closely you can see what I mean by the ribs being visible on the outside. This is most visible in the middle of the tail section, you can see a line there.. that's the rib:



However.. change the angle a bit.. and no-one sees.. and she's still a beauty!

Dcp222

Hezik,
I'm having the heavier version and can't see the rib from outside. Maybe the later production use thinner fuse material. I'm just guessing.
I don't mind the visibility of the ribs as long as it's light and no structural weakness.

tclaridge

Hezik. Thats a great answer. Thanks.

hezik

No, the fuse material is the same. A friend of mine has the same bird, without rib visible but also heavy. It's weight doesn't come from fuse lamination. On his it looks like the one applying the glue to glue in the rudder-stop, had a bad day.

Also there's one still lying in a shop in the Netherlands, from one of the first batches, which also has visible ribs.

Offcourse it's a massproduct with timelines and built by people without true passion for it, probably, so these kind of things happen.

On the other hand.. it still looks and flies great.

I have considered removing the rib and letting the fuse relax into it's original form, but decided not to bother. Would probably do more damage than good, and I don't really find it that disturbing. However, on a CFK fuse/ wood covered wing/EUR 1500 plane, ribs shouldn't be visible.

hezik

I noticed that my rudder had gotten more room for movement on the hingeline. I replaced the flimsy Sebart hinges by Robart hinges, and this has helped somewhat, but there's still some room for movement. This is because the hinges have to span a gap, and they are only 3mm and therefor not strong enough to stay straigt.

Sebart supports the hinges with a flimsy construction, replacing this by stronger wood has bettered the situation, but it's stil not good.

Anyone not having this problem, or am I the only one?

Dre

My Feedback: (2)

I made the same observation as you concerning the need for hinge supports and put them on every hinge where none were supplied. I made the supports using 1/8" end-grain balsa/carbon fiber laminate; drilled/reamed to accept the hinge fully up to the moving part. A fuzzy image is attached - best I could capture.

Andre Bouchard

anders12

I thought I`d share my experiances with the Wind S Pro after one season of practicing and competing. This summer I logged 247 flights, P11 and F11. I have competed in F3A since 1982, participated in my first WC in Holland 1985 and my latest in Poland 2003. Never before during all these years have I flown so much with so little effort. The electrics are fantastic! So on to my wiews.

I`ve built two models, one for myself and one for a friend. For myself i bought a red and white version. The fuselage was sanded with 800 followed by 2000 paper. Trim coulors were applied with waterbased autopaint followed by a two component clearcoat. This gave a nice shine without any visable seams in the fuselage. The procedure added 85g of weight. The wings were releaved of their Oracover and recovered with a superior covering eg SuperMonokote. The Monokote has brighter colours and a better shine than Oracover. This also reduced the weight of the wings by 30g. While at it I did some sanding and adjusting the fit between wings, stabs and the fuselage before applying the Monokote.

Equpment used:
Motor: Hacker C-50 14Xl
Esc: YGE 80HV
Batteries: Desirepower 5000mAh 25C
Servos 4*Futaba 9650 1*Futaba 9151 (Ailerons will bee uppgraded with Futaba BLS 153 for next season.)
Reciever: Futaba 6008
Reciever battery: Desirepower 850 mAh with a Emcotec regulator giving 5.9V

My model ended at 4820g. My friends model is a ready painted version that ended up at 4750g with the same equipment.

Having built quite a lot of F3A models, mostly from plans, I have high demands on quality. The Wind S Pro meets them well. I had no issuses with building and finishing. One has to keep in mind that this is an ARF not a custom built airframe.
Regarding the visible fuselage formers I`m a bit surprised by the lack of knowlage regarding materials used in model building. The fuselage is, mostly, fibreglass with a distance material and formers made of balsa reinforced with carbonfibre. Different materials expand and contract in different ways when exposed to variations in humidity and temprature. The atmosfearical conditions at the production site and the conditions here in Europe are certainly not the same. Also when using the model we subject it to big variations in weather conditions worsening the problem over time. Hezik`s model is pictured outside in the cold winter showing the fuselage former clearly. My model that was very good in this aspect when new looked almost as bad when brought in from cool storage. I built a fiberglass fuselage with perfectly made and intalled formers. The outside shape was absolutly right. At the end of the flying season the formers could be seen clearly.

When talking flying proprieties the Wind S Pro shines in three areas.

First knifeedge. It has no couplings whatsoever. Trim is perfect without any mixes. Rudderauthority is great. Rolling loops and knifeedgeloops are easily controlled. The reason for this is the midwing design and cleaverly designed fuselage. The landinggearfairings and pointy canopy helps keep a good airflow round the fuselage in knifeedge position, witout peculiar looking devices. A big subfin also helps here.

Second is rolling manouvers. Good knifedge is one thing and the swept wing another that explains this.

The third area in which the model excells is its performance in windy and turbulent conditions. Something one appricates when flying in Sweden. Here we have the narrow fuselage and thin wings that gives a sleek model with little drag compared too most F3A models. This gives good penetration in heavy winds. The airframe is also very ridgid. Built up wings and a sturdy wingtube minimzes flex. This is the reason behind the old and true saying, "Wood flies better". A ridgid airframe is less disturbed in turbulent wether and feels moore locked.
Some people have written that they intend too replace the original wingtube with a PPG tube weighing half as much as the original. I would never do that. The PPG tube is much less rigid and would flex too much. That was one of the issuses with a Genesis that a flew earlier.

In summary I can only say that this is the easiest model I have ever flown. It is predictable and honest and feels extremely stable and loocked.

Regards, Anders Johansson
Sweden

hezik

Sorry, nice try, but no go. The former is visible at 0 degrees celcius, as wel as at 25 degrees celcius. Also, there's another WindS at our club, which has no formers visible, in the same conditions. Lack of material knowledge has nothing to do with it, the former was simply pressed in too hard upon construction. Also, if you look at the construction.. the formers arend made out of one piece. They're two halves joined by a small piece of wood. If you were correct, the former visibility would be solved by removing that piece of wood, it's the only thing that could push formers outward or inward. However, removing it, changes nothing.

Also, Wood shrinks more than GFK in cold weather. So one would expect the former to be visible as an identation then. This is not the case, it's the other way around. If anything, the former should become less visible in cold, which it doesn't.

It IS an ARF, in that you are right, however, fact still remains that there are other ARF manufacturers, who build 2m F3A ships, which don't have these issues. Also; te formers showing is not the only defect, there are a lot more. Too much, in respect to the competition.

So far I have not flown a lot with this plane, like 6~7 flights, but I was coming to the same conclusion.

Don't get me wrong, it's still a beauty and it flies really well, it was never my intention to say, or even hint, that it's a bad airplane. All I'm saying, is that in the same pricerange, there are manufacturers who achieve a higer level of finishing. A lot higher, even. If you ever see someone fly a Gaudius, go look at that plane up close, and keep in mind it has the same pricetag, and same level of 'ARF-ness' as the WindS. It's a difference like night and day.

Still.. I knew beforehand the Gaudius is beter finished, and still bought the WindS. Simply because it's still a beautifull bird and it flies really well.

And thanks for sharing your experience, valuable, makes us 'new WindS owners' really happy

anders12

I`m very well aware of the formerconstuction. It being in two halfs complicates the mechanics of its movement. I will not take it farther than that. I doubt that the formers are glued in at any higher preassure. The reason for the deformed fuselage sides is more likely that the formers are intalled before the fuselage is fully hardened resulting in the permanent deformation you describe. Have you also removed the carbonfibrereinforcement? Leaving this would not help the situation.
I still believe that different materials and directionality thereof is the main problem. Productionquality is something that goes all the way back to the design.
What more problems have you seen?

Regards Anders Johansson

PS
The model will grow on you as you fly more. When one learns to master it it`s a formidable competition tool!
DS

hezik

I haven't removed anything,have just played round with it a bit, to see if I could better the situation. Your explanation is also plausible, I don't know at what point of production they glue in the formers. It might indeed be that the fuse wasn't hardened out fully. However, whichever is the actual cause, it doesn't come from temperature differences and therefor it's not neccesary to be surprised by alledged missing knowledge about materials

It's 19:20 here now, gonna have dinner first, but will make some pictures to illustrate what other points I have found.

I can't emphasize enough, it's not that it's bad, or crap, or anything like that. It's just that for that pricetag, it should have been finished better.

anders12

I`m looking forward to the pictures. The "surprise" was a bit of a provocation I admit!

Anders J

hezik

Srry, havent come around to it yet.. be patient, I will post them soon enough

hezik

Ok.. before posting these pictures, I can't stress enough that none of this will make this bird fly nor look bad. It's just that one shouldn't be able to find this stuff on a bird in this pricerange, one doesn't with the competition (ie Gaudius, Spark). Yes it's nitpicking, but at this pricetag, nitpicking is allowed.

First.. the visible former, here at a ambient temperature of 23 degrees celcius. As you can see, it's not the temperature. Also note that this former photographs best, but they are all visible, not just this one.



The gaps between surfaces and the rest of whatever the surface is in..

elevator:


Aileron:





Gap between wing and fuse.. colors strange because someone (who, me?) had thumb over flash:



Small damage at gear, one side, you can see they tried to repair it, and failed:



On the other side they chose a different method of repairing. The whole area I circled was sanded mildly, and you can see they painted part of that with a slightly different color white. The photograph doesnt show, but the rest of the area doesn't have the shine of the rest of the plane, you can clearly see it's sanded:



One of the metal pins was pushed through the gear surface.



On more than one place, one can see overspray.. here from the blue:



and the red:



The botomside of one wing wasn't sanded before covering, you can clearly see the edges of the balsa boards used.. really hard to photograph, but here it's somewhat visible:



One stab incidence adjuster was glued in wrong, also had to sand it on the inside to get the incidence I wanted.. you can see it protruding above the surface:



Also one elevator trailing edge was glued in wrong, didn't photograph it, but consequence is a slighly bigger hinge-gap.

Last.. there are like a dozen or so small dings spread out over the entire fuse. Almost impossible to photograph, since they are small dings in shiny surfaces.

I hope this one is visible enough, this is on the fin, there's a group of dings just above the point of my 'pointing and letting camera focus-device', and another ding in the left upper hand corner on this picture.



another thing that I forgot, the rudder is bent, it's not straight. If you trim it so that it's centered at the top, then it's off-centre like half a cm at the bottom.

All this besides, in the air it looks and flies great. I have no doubt i'll love it, so far it hasn't let me down.

anders12

Hello again!

Lucky me who bought the red and white version. The all white fuselage seems to have a slightly thicker layer of paint. Sanding and applying trim followed by clearcoat fixed all minor flaws. The not perfectly fitted ruddersurfaces and wing to fuselage gaps were fixed before recovering. Also Monokote doesent wrinkle as Oracover does.

Regards Anders J