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Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

Old 10-07-2009, 12:44 PM
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schroedm
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Default Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

Guys,

I'm new to the whole electric pattern scene so any help gratefully received.

As you may have seen I've bought the sebart wind s pro and pletty evo 30-10 and hacker 99 F3A esc.

I'm looking at packs now. As I have 4 lipo chargers that can charge up to 5s I want to use 2 x 5s packs to create the required 10s pack. I was looking at the flightpower 4350 5s eon-x packs but they cost approx $250 each so $500 per flight set.

Chatting to Jeff Boyd earlier, he made me aware of Turnigy packs. 5000 5s 25C for only $75!! I accept they may not be as great as the flightpower packs but the massive price difference allows me to accept that.

I then found turnighy 5000 5s 20c for a paltry $49!! 20c x 5000 is 100A continuous and if my esc is only rated to 99A am I wasting more money going for the 25c packs. As I see it I have have 5 flight packs for the price if one Flightpower setup?

Does does my idea and this massive money saving fall over!?!

I'm listening :-)
Old 10-07-2009, 01:03 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

I'd stay away from the Flightpowers... if you can afford that range of pack, Thunderpower 5300s have much better characteristics and will last a long time. Guys on this side of the pond are able to get well over a hundred cycles of quality contest worthy flights without much degradation. Also consider Hyperion G3 packs... cheaper, a little heavier, but even better internal resistances and they just stay low... not sure how long they will last, but it looks like they might even outlast the TP.

I use the Zippy Flightmax cells and have been impressed so far. I have had some bad luck with the Chinese stuff in the past, but have had good luck as of late.
Old 10-07-2009, 01:22 PM
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wagen017
 
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

you can't really go wrong on a set of Rhino or Zippy packs. If you are new to this thing you're bound to make some mistakes ( I know I made a few) and you will feel a lot happier if it happens to a 49$ pack iso a 250$ pack.

Best thing to do if I were in your shoes is to get yourself 2 sets, build up your plane and start flying. If for instance you have a weight issue and will start competition you can always buy yourself an extra lightweight set for those occasions, or buy one or two additional packs if you want to put your flights back to back.

Volkert
Old 10-07-2009, 02:42 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

I know two pilots who had 120 flights on the TP and more than 250 on the Rhinos, I got the Rhinos because of that. Go with them you will not regret, TP are lighters but get a pack for competition and the others for practice, you can go wrong with that.
Old 10-07-2009, 03:10 PM
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schroedm
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

Guys,

Thanks for the info.

I guess I've always automatically discounted 'cheap' lipos for F3A as I've probably just looked at the gear the pros are using and forgot they're all probably sponsored with free packs!

I think I'll go with the Rhinos or Zippy or Turnigy.

Can someone tell me if I am right in thinking that there is no point in going for a 25C constant rating on a 5000mah pack as that means a constant 125A and my ESC is only rated at 99A? Should I therefore just go for a 20C rated pack?

I see the choice realistically between the [link=https://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8585&Product_Name=ZIPPY_Flightmax_5000mAh_5S1P_25C_]Turnigy 5000 5S1P 25C[/link] at $72 or the [link=https://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9174&Product_Name=Turnigy_5000mAh_5S_20C_Lipo_Pack]Turnigy 5000 5S1P 20C[/link] at just $50 or the [link=https://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7654&Product_Name=Rhino_4900mAh_5S1P_20C_Lipoly_Pack]Rhino 4900 5S1P 20C[/link] at $65.

Decisions, decisions........

Thanks,
Mark
Old 10-07-2009, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

I fly max 72AMPs on my Pletty 30-10EVO. You'll be fine with the 20C packs.

Volkert
Old 10-07-2009, 03:51 PM
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schroedm
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

Thanks Volkert.

OK, assuming I became Mr Cheapskate and went for the $50 [link=https://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=9174]Turnigy 5000 5S1P 20C packs[/link] what would I need to check when they arrived to ensure they were a pack worth using. Someone mentioned to me something about checking the internal resistance of each cell to check they're as close as possible.

How do I do this?

Rgds,
Mark

PS Sorry if these are all dumb questions. Up to now I've only done turbines and 150-170cc petrols!
Old 10-07-2009, 04:47 PM
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ExFokkerFlyer
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

First of all, don't always believe the C rating. These numbers are thrown around by manufacturers at times and may have little or no basis. That aside, let's assume that they do mean something... they do actually, but they aren't totally accurate, just a guidline. In pattern we aren't really looking for 125 amps continuous... or even burst, you are right. But what we do find that batteries that do have higher C ratings will hold on to their voltage under load better, giving more power. That's not just a function of C rating, but it's part of it. It's mainly a function of the battery chemistry as we are seeing with some of the new packs... TP, Hyperion, and Rhinos (I had forgotten about those, also hearing good things about them).

Several chargers will measure the internal resistance of the batteries... some will do it by pack, giving you an idea of what your packs are averaging, and one will give you the value by cell. I understand there are more chargers that will do this on the way. It's not a necessity, but once you can see this value (lower is better), you have an idea on the health of your pack and how long it may last. The CellPro 10S charger will do this, it's actually a generic charger that several companies have slapped their own brand on and sold as their own. FMA Direct sells it, and also Neu sells their own as well. I would bet somebody in Europe sells it too.

[link=http://www.fmadirect.com/new_applications/10s_charger.htm]Cell Pro 10s[/link]

By the way, I'm not affiliated with anybody and don't get free packs... [8D]

Tom M
Old 10-07-2009, 04:51 PM
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Ricardo M.
 
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

I have been useing the Rhino 5s 4900 20C packs for a while and are great. A friend of mine uses the Zippy Flightmax 4400 15c and the 5000 20c and both work great too. The Turnigy pachs are heavier than the Flightmax packs.

Old 10-07-2009, 05:07 PM
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schroedm
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

@Tom M, Thanks! Do you know if I could charge 2 5S packs at once with that Cell Pro charger? That would be great if I could.

@Volkert, please can you tell me what sort of mAh you are taking per flight with your Plettenberg EVO 30-10. I am hoping 4900mAh capacity is 'safe' enough.

Also, does anyone using Rhino packs charge at more than 1C? I see they are rated for 2C charge rates?

Rgds,
Mark
Old 10-07-2009, 06:15 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs


ORIGINAL: schroedm

@Tom M, Thanks! Do you know if I could charge 2 5S packs at once with that Cell Pro charger? That would be great if I could.

@Volkert, please can you tell me what sort of mAh you are taking per flight with your Plettenberg EVO 30-10. I am hoping 4900mAh capacity is 'safe' enough.

Also, does anyone using Rhino packs charge at more than 1C? I see they are rated for 2C charge rates?

Rgds,
Mark
You can charge two 10s packs simultaneously with the CellPro. I'm having good luck with the Rhinos but charge them at 1C. If you are charging 10s that's about all the charger can do. The 4900 should be enough but I have found there is a wide variation depending on the ESC.

Jim O
Old 10-07-2009, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

I think this shows a level of confidence in Rhino packs . . . at least by this user

Cheers, JB
Old 10-07-2009, 09:15 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

JB ... that user of Rhino is using PhotoShop too! Hahahahahaaa ...

I am an avid user of Flight Power in the past, but of late I have to give it up because of the HobbyCity prices and quality. Sorry to say that it does not make sense using FP for us average flyers. FP and other brands such as Thunder Power, Polyquest etc are not lousy nor are they over priced but the issue is Rhino packs do work fine. However, pushing them to the limits is an issue. Branded packs tend to last better when pushed to their limits and this we will only encounter in EDF and pylon applications. For F3A, how often does the pilot hold full throttle for more than say 3-4 secs in a properly set up plane? Sigh ... I need more packs.
Old 10-07-2009, 11:13 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs


ORIGINAL: Jeff Boyd 2

I think this shows a level of confidence in Rhino packs . . . at least by this user

Cheers, JB
All i can say is WOW!!!!!

Jeff can i come over and do some flying with you?

Chris
Old 10-08-2009, 12:44 AM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs


ORIGINAL: schroedm

Thanks Volkert.

OK, assuming I became Mr Cheapskate and went for the $50 [link=https://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=9174]Turnigy 5000 5S1P 20C packs[/link] what would I need to check when they arrived to ensure they were a pack worth using. Someone mentioned to me something about checking the internal resistance of each cell to check they're as close as possible.

How do I do this?

Rgds,
Mark

PS Sorry if these are all dumb questions. Up to now I've only done turbines and 150-170cc petrols!
I charge with 1C (5.0Amps). When new packs arrive (any brand!) check internal resistance if possible and the actual voltage per cel. The difference should not be more then 0,03V (but I am sure there are experts on the forum who have a better estimate on that value!). If the difference is bigger, I would recommend sending the pack back, you might have an issue there. Then during the first charge I would check the per cell voltage. Somebody else suggested (after I blew a pack) it would be better if you charge the first time at 0,5C, because then the charger can more easily balance during charge.

I use the iCharger 1010b+ sold at Hobbycity. I think it is a great charger at a good price. It charges 10S, you can calibrate yourself the cell voltages, it measures internal resistance and is small and neat. They also come out regurarly with updates which you can download from the internet.

Volkert
Old 10-08-2009, 02:34 AM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs


ORIGINAL: icicles


ORIGINAL: Jeff Boyd 2

I think this shows a level of confidence in Rhino packs . . . at least by this user

Cheers, JB
All i can say is WOW!!!!!

Jeff can i come over and do some flying with you?

Chris
Hi Chris . . yes sure . . you're coming anyway aren't you??? . . SA Champs??. BUT don't drive . . fly over and we can share my Integral (it has your 'ol favourite' power plant ;o).

They are not my packs . . but he will be flying at the Champs too )

Cheers, Jeff
Old 10-08-2009, 06:10 AM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

Mark

Welcome to the world of watts, volts and amps! Just like first year physics again and that was fifty years ago for me. Like you I became interested in serious electric models a short time ago with the purchase of a second hand Angel 50 which came with two 6S packs a Rhino 3700 20C and a Maxaloy 4000 20C. After a couple of flights it was obvious that the Rhino pack gave much better performance than the Maxaloy. Several of the guys at my club were flying Wind 110's using Rhino packs and had good opinions of them.

I decided to stick with Rhinos and got some from Hobby King in Hong Kong at really excellent prices, £65 for a 4900 6S 20C delivered to UK. Like you I am also going 10S and on the advice of my fellow electric flyers invested in a Cellpro charger which is an excellent piece of kit able to charge two 5S packs at the same time and give you all of the information you require about internal resistance and indivivual cell voltage etc. My new Rhino packs seem to be excellent for the type of flying I am doing and I have ordered some more 5S packs at equally good prices.

regards

John
Old 11-10-2009, 11:03 AM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

Well , just to share some info for my Rhino lipo . I am now flying a WindS 110 with 10s setup , cause i don't want to
buy more lipo packs as recomanded 8s for the 110 ., my WindS-Pro 2m will arrive soon next month or so ......
My set up Scropion motor 4035-250kv ,
Esc Turnigy100amp ,
Rhino 5s 4900mah x2packs ,
Xoar E-18x10
Wot 68amp
Flight time 9mins with p-09 menuever , charged back 2800-3100mah per flight .... check battery temp just abit warm and so does the esc .
Now all my Rhino packs just past 25 cycles and i notice they are strat to feel "jelly" when you tough them ........ as i have no power lost yet , so any of you guys have any probleum with the Rhino lipo ...... ??

Is it the sign that it is start to "boating" . . . . i have been carefull enough not to abuse the battery ..... hemm any advice . .??!!
Old 11-10-2009, 01:42 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

If I get the CellPro, do I need to buy additional balance ports or adapter plugs? I am between that charger and the iCharger1010 from Hobby City. Don't know which is better.

I'm also looking for 10S battery choice and am curious about Huison's experience.
Old 11-10-2009, 02:37 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

I've got a 1010b, the original release of the unit, and I love it. Sold my TP 1010c once I got it.
Old 11-10-2009, 03:45 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs


ORIGINAL: huison2005

Well , just to share some info for my Rhino lipo . I am now flying a WindS 110 with 10s setup , cause i don't want to
buy more lipo packs as recomanded 8s for the 110 ., my WindS-Pro 2m will arrive soon next month or so ......
My set up Scropion motor 4035-250kv ,
Esc Turnigy100amp ,
Rhino 5s 4900mah x2packs ,
Xoar E-18x10
Wot 68amp
Flight time 9mins with p-09 menuever , charged back 2800-3100mah per flight .... check battery temp just abit warm and so does the esc .
Now all my Rhino packs just past 25 cycles and i notice they are strat to feel ''jelly'' when you tough them ........ as i have no power lost yet , so any of you guys have any probleum with the Rhino lipo ...... ??

Is it the sign that it is start to ''boating'' . . . . i have been carefull enough not to abuse the battery ..... hemm any advice . .??!!
I have been flying my Rhino's 4900 on a Pletty Evo, now over 50 flights each. I regularly have to charge back up to 4500mAh (I try to keep this below 4000 but alas....). Battery temp max. is about 45 degrees C. So far they have held up very well and I don't see any physical changes (jelly as you describe it). Only iR seems a bit up but I am not sure since there seems to be a big link with temperature.

Volkert
Old 11-10-2009, 05:25 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

My results with Rhino 4900s are similar to Volkerts.

I have two sets with 45 flights each on them and one set with ten flights. The older sets do get a little soft on the outside at the end of a flight. The old ones I typically run down to 15-17% in a P11 (Hacker A60), but have abused them a couple of times down to 5%. IRs still read low and they have only a slight loss in capacity compared to the new set.

I always charge at 1c. With three sets I don't have to charge at the field.

They're a tremendous value.

-Ron
Old 11-10-2009, 10:50 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

I am using both the True RC 5000 and the Rhino 4900 and both set are working great with the Pletty (21x14 APC) set up with a jetti 90. I am charging with a CellPro 10s at 4.0 Amps and with the poly quest type nodes you need converter cables for the Rhinos @ .99 cents each. I pull mine down to around 23% flying the P-9 and around 17% for the F-9 and haven't flown the entire P-11 or F-11, just the first 6 in each.


Regards,

Bill Holsten

Advantage Hobby/Custom Airframes of America/Dragon Fire Customs/Guardian America.
Old 11-10-2009, 10:51 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs


grotto2 , how many cycle tru ... when you felt your rhino become 'soft' ...... ??

i am using the Cell-Pro 10s charger , all packs charged at 2.5amp only 1/2c . . . . . an hour plus my 5sx2 alreadt full charged !!

All my rhino cells irs are 2.6 to 2.9 .... i don't really understand about those reading , is that still low ??
Old 11-10-2009, 10:58 PM
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Default RE: Help me choose some F3A lipo packs

You'll find some battery data at http://www.electric-f3a.com/Battery%20data.htm

If you check, say Oddino's True packs you will see that they run around 7-8. I guess that was an acceptable number then , but like you observed, the Rhinos run under 3. Very good!

To answer your other question, I noticed mine start to soften around 35 flights.

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