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Carbon gear servos

Old 12-22-2009, 07:47 AM
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Velco
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Default Carbon gear servos

Hello,

here it is not about who manufactures them, it is about your thoughts and experience (if you have any) with carbon gear servos. As more and more manufacturers include them in their line up and as the offer is increasing I think it could be interesting to discuss the subject.

They are not advised for Gas applications (because of vibrations) but are absolutely OK for electro.

In theory they should combine precision from the plastic gear and strength from the metal gear. To speak about longevity is difficult because so little has been written about carbon gear servos, but again in theory they should last long.

I was curious to check them out since I had realized that for electro heli they are very common. Helis are quite demanding in terms of servos so my guess was that it is OK on helis it should be OK even on the planes. So I gave them a try, and I never regretted it! Actually, from now on I plan using carbon gear servos where ever I can, specification permitting!

Every time I purchase a servo I open it up and inspect it, just in case. I put it under load while open also to be able to check for gear play. Well, my experience so far is that there is no ANY gear play on carbon gear servos! Very smooth and precise.

As in F3A smoothness and precision are everything I hope that this subject is of interest.

Velco
Old 12-22-2009, 10:07 AM
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ntsmith
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Default RE: Carbon gear servos

The only problem I ever have had, which has been enough for me to stay clear ever since, is that if they get only a slight knock, they break. These were HS-65 HB's the metal ones were fine although I ma told that they become noisy after a while. Not sure what a "while" is though. They have received alot of flying and are still fine. I have no intentions of re-trying the HB's again. Carbonite? Marmite is stronger.
Old 12-22-2009, 01:00 PM
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Velco
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Default RE: Carbon gear servos



Well, only now I have realized that Carbon or Karbonite/Carbonite gears are probably the same thing, because on many different sites they are advertised as Carbon gear and nothing came up in the search engine for "carbon gear servo" [].



Still I have found some pretty interesting things, because now also not only Hitec offers this type of gears, (Graupner/JR, and Futaba/Robbe ...)



http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5360897/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm



http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9265396/anchors_9265396/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9265396



Here is what Hitec has to say:



We offer four different gear materials in our Hitec line of servos. Nylon is the base and is great for standard applications and offers excellent wear resistance to keep the gear mesh tight for years. Karbonite is 4 times stronger than Nylon and offers even better wear resistance and super quite operation. Standard Metal is perfect for rugged applications and is 16 times stronger than Nylon but will wear much faster. Our Titanium gears are simply awesome. Virtually no wear after years of use and 48 times stronger than Nylon gears. If your application is critical and you can not afford a gear failure, Titanium is the way to go.






All this came to my mind when I realized that very often plastic gear servos are suggested for the horizontal stabilizer, so I guessed why not carbon.



Also would a 10kg/330oz servo be enough for a rudder or ailerons on a 2x2 bird and why should be metal gears always used here?



Velco

Old 12-24-2009, 02:47 PM
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Default RE: Carbon gear servos

Carbonite gears don`t like Loctite! This destroy them, they become brittle. Could be a problem for people using metalgear a lot, and often secure the servohorn using Loctite. They could unintentional add Loctite to carbonite...
10kg for ailerons; yes.
10kg for rudder; which plane, which motor and how do you fly. For pattern it is more than enougd, For 3D it could be a bit small...
Old 12-24-2009, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: Carbon gear servos



JooNorway, that is a very good info regarding Locktite!



On 3D 2m I will be using 15kg on the rudder, just slowly preparing my H9 Extra 260 for maiden.



Actually my question was would it be appropriate to use carbonite gear servos in F3A for ailerons (and rudder?) even on 2x2 plane as Graupner has come out with a servo with carbonite gears of adequate specs: DES 804BB 9.8kg, 0.08s/ 40deg on 6V.



I will definitively try carbonite gears with Wind 110 on the ailerons and horizontal stab: 7.7kg, 0.11s/60deg on 6V. May be I try that 9,8kg Graupner here on the rudder first.



So far I have found carbonite gears to be very smooth.

Old 12-25-2009, 01:40 AM
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Default RE: Carbon gear servos

Perhaps I am a little confused here but it says " Karbonite is 4 times stronger than Nylon" but later "Our Titanium gears are simply awesome"
Tititanium is titanium and Karbonite is Karbonite. I agree the former would be better. As I stated in a previous post I found "Karnonite" to be fragile if knocked, at least that is when mine sustained damage. I would not use them in a critical application - arn't most control fuctions critical though!
Old 12-25-2009, 03:17 PM
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Default RE: Carbon gear servos

I don`t think any of my servoes have suffered from broken gears during flight... And I have flown since -75. Only time gears had been damaged (except from crash) is those connected to steerable wheels. (And when rudder surfaces hit the doorframes on the way from the hobby room to the car...) Thus I now use metal gear servoes for those applications. And I use MG for flaps servoes on my gliders too.
Else I prefer no to use MG on my pattern planes, just because I have a feeling they get more slack than nylon and carbonite gears. And I don`t like slack on my pattern planes

For 3D from 50ccm size and above I also use MG due to the abuse they get during nasty manouvers

15kg for the rudder on a 2m Extra should be sufficient. I think my 2,3m Extra have a single 18kg for rudder, and it keep up in knife edge and knife edge manouvers. A friend of mine did try 10kg for rudder in an equal plane. He felt the knife edge wasn`t firm. Changed to a stronger servo and he got a far better performance in KE.

The 27% Extra is nice A perfect plane for electric motor!
Old 12-25-2009, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: Carbon gear servos



ntsmith ... As always what you pay is what you get and I agree that all control surfaces are critical. Still I would consider Titanium gears only on a gasser >50ccm. Also, when do you knock your servos? Practically only on crashes, rudder in transport and flaps on gliders when landing, so the way I see, it is only certain control surfaces in certain applications that really do require MG, right?



joonorway ... I agree, on size 110 or full 2m bird rudder will be 15kg MG. Would you consider 10kg carbonite gears on the ailerons also for a 2m F3A plane? For 3D I agree that MG is a must, 10kg for a 2m plane like Extra 27% .




Old 12-27-2009, 03:51 AM
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Default RE: Carbon gear servos

I hvae never broken a Carbonite servo durung flight but thats not much consolation if its broken when you arrive at the flying field because the aileron (for instance) has had a slight knock and IS broken. It seems sudden jolts are far worse than any flight load imo.
Old 12-27-2009, 09:43 AM
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Default RE: Carbon gear servos

Hello Velco,

Regarding a 2M pattern ship (
Old 12-27-2009, 12:21 PM
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Default RE: Carbon gear servos

I have karbonite gears on many of my aircraft servos. They do not strip nearly as easily as the whit nylon.

I had a set on a 73" cap that went in due to some radio interferance (the only plane I ever lost to such a thing). The plane was totalled, but the servos were fine. I put them in a replacement cap (exact same h-9 arf). They are still operating just fine.

I have heard some of the "horror stories" of people's karbonite gears snapping if they looked at them wrong or if the stars were not in the correct alignment, but my experience has been otherwise.

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