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Motors Motors Motors...

Old 12-29-2009, 09:27 PM
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jhatton
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Default Motors Motors Motors...

I am putting together my first Electric setup... I am trying to decide on a motor... I am trying to not break the bank...
So far what I have found are the Hacker A60 motors that seem to be in the correct weight/Power/Price point

So, What would be better in an integral a A60-20S or an A60-22S and why
What prop for each?

I already have a Pheonix HV 85 for a controller

Are there any other motors in the $200 price range that would be a better fit?
Old 12-29-2009, 10:16 PM
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J Lachowski
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...

Jeff,

Dave Lockhart has the answers to the Hacker motors you are looking at. He has a lot of extensive time with these and the like. If you were to ask me, The Plettenberg 30-10 EVO is the best outrunner out there. But of course, it dosen't meet your price criteria. My two Intregrals and soon to be Xigris will or already have the Pletty in them. You might also consider the Neu Inrunnners. Lubing gears is not as big a deal as some think. All the other cheap chinese knockoff outrunners aren't worth the headaches that come with them. You get what you pay for.
Old 12-29-2009, 10:42 PM
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...

AXI have a couple of F3A motors on the market. They are the 5330/F3A and the new lighter 5325/24. Both are probably cheaper than the Hacker options you quote.

Cheers
Jason.
Old 12-30-2009, 12:42 AM
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...

Jeff,

I agree with Joe L for the Evo and Neu, and "Cheap" is often not going to get you reliability or good power. In the case of the A60 line, they are definitely a great value (especially with the 2010 price reduction, making them 25% cheaper than AXI in the US). Of the A60-xxS motors, most of the ones you see in the northeastern US are the A60-20S which has the lowest resistance and can handle the highest power levels (I've run at 100 amps in summer time heat with no problems). You do need to support both ends of the motor (not hard, I can send pics if needed).

The A60-20s is very high KV, relative to other motors used in pattern, so it likes to run props in the 19x12 range ~7500 RPM. It does require a little more throttle work to fly constant speed than an electric with a bigger prop (but it is still easy to fly constant speed compared to glow). You could also go with an A60-24S and a 20x13E, which is less power (similar to 5325/24), less speed (marginal on windy days, my opinion), but very easy on lipos and easy to fly constant speed.

Hope this helps!

Dave
Old 12-30-2009, 07:59 AM
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...

Thanks for the replies... with the price reduction the Hackers are hard to pass up... I can get two of them for the price of the Neu. What would be the benefit to going to the Neu? If it has less current draw and I can get away with less expensive batteries than it would be worth the price difference.
Old 12-30-2009, 12:57 PM
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...

Jeff,

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_93..._1/key_/tm.htm
check post 15.

I'd say difference is small enough that it is a very minor factor, far more important will be how diligent you are with keeping discharges shallow - certainly less than 90%, 80% is better, and 70% is better still.

Regards,

Dave

Old 12-30-2009, 07:18 PM
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...



For a long time I could not decide between A60S/L or AXI 5325/24 and 5330/F3A. That motor in my case would not be primarily used in a F3A plane but on H9 Extra 260 27%. At the same time I wanted a motor that I can use as a spare if needed for my 2x2 F3A one day.



The 2 motors from Hacker I was considering were A60 22S or 16M, both kV 215. Well even thou 16M in calc programs was much better than 22S on 10S and 20x13 prop (10A less and 300rpm more) the weight (160g more)of 16M has put me away from it, not so much because of Extra but as a possible replacement on F3A plane. At the same time what worried me a bit about 22S is that suggested prop by Hacker is 18x12 on 10S while at the same time AXI 5325/24 even slightly lower weight and kV235 is suggested for 19x12. Knowing that Hacker and AXI are almost identically conservative about their motors this raised a question mark. Also some tests of 5325/24 with good packs and 19x12 showed that it is absolutely OK even on a heavy (5,5kg) planes.



In the end I took AXI 5330/F3A because it was in between A60S and A60L with weight (575g), can carry 20x13 on 10S without any problem even on a hot summer day, and has enough power for windy days. 80g more compared to 5325/24 are a minus but the extra grunt on my heavy Extra will help. Also 22S would be really pushed too hard on Extra.



It took me 3 months to make this decision and I still have not answered your question, hopefully it will take less time .



If you plan purchasing some of the latest F3A designs that have been designed exclusively for E power (hence very light) and you know that your total weight will be not more than 4,7kg and you really want to go with Hacker outrunner than 22S on 10S with 20x13 would be the right choice. If your total weight is going to be closer to 5kg mark than the power of 22S will not be enough and 16M would be to heavy.



That is why there are not many A60 motors used in F3A, I was also wondering why, but now I know why, they are either to weak or too heavy. I think that Hacker will have to revise their 16S design because it only makes sense on super light F3A birds and if someone insists to have a Hacker outrunner.



Last but not least; we should not forget that marketing guys have very often their fingers in a product range. How many people would really want to buy (expensive) C50 series motor if there would be a competitive A60? My guess is much less than today !

Old 12-31-2009, 06:57 AM
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...

I'm more of a YS guy, but I did buy the Neu, it gives a little longer run time, beautiful motor, but a friend bought a Turnigy outrunner SK6364-230 and is using it with outstanding results, $59, I bought the motor just to try it, it's 200grs heavier than most outrunners, so it will make a great practice motor, I will not take it to a contest though.

If you can get a Hacker, Neu or Plettenberg then go that route, if money is an issue you can get the Turnigy until you can get one of the other.

Regards
Old 12-31-2009, 10:34 AM
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...

I went ahead and ordered the Hacker A60-20S... I couldn't pass up $189 with free shipping. Dave, Could you provide the pics of the motor mounting you mentioned in your earlier post?

I know with the Integeral I am going to be marginal on weight until I break down and get new wings made, but I will try to come close...
Old 12-31-2009, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...

Velco,

I've run the A60-22S on a 20x13, and this is a very large prop for that motor, and will produce a lot of power. Depending on which prop and batteries, you could see 100 amps (and ~6800 RPM). This puts a lot of stress on the batteries, ESC, and motor. I would suggest using smaller props that keep the amps <80.

Regards,

Dave
Old 12-31-2009, 11:49 AM
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...


ORIGINAL: jhatton

I went ahead and ordered the Hacker A60-20S... I couldn't pass up $189 with free shipping. Dave, Could you provide the pics of the motor mounting you mentioned in your earlier post?

I know with the Integeral I am going to be marginal on weight until I break down and get new wings made, but I will try to come close...
Jeff,

Feel free to email me off-line to discuss ways of keeping the weight down in the Integral. The A60-20S should be good enough for flying Intermediate.
Old 12-31-2009, 12:37 PM
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...

Jeff,

The 20S has won many contests in the NE, it will serve you well.

The basic mounting proces is this -
- glue an 1/8" "spacer" disk (diameter of the motor, you can use the light ply disc that comes with the motor as a template) on the back side of the nosering. Use FG board or 5 ply. This spacer will have holes larger enough for the boltheads for the motor mounting screws (boltheads are essentially countersunk into this piece).
- glue a 2nd 1/8" disc with the holes drilled for the body of the motor mounting screws.
- to keep the discs locked into the nosering and each other, I drilled from the front in 4 places and tapped all pieces for 4-40 bolts, and used button head (low head height) 4-40s which were sized to be flush with the back of the 2nd disc (which is the mounting face for the motor).

You may need to adjust the thickness of the discs depending on the thickness of the Integral nosering and style of spinner backplate.

You will need an aft support for the motor. For the support itself, I used 1/8" FG laminated endgrain balsa. The support has a flange bearing that fits on the back of the propshaft. The support attaches to the fuse on either a "hoop" former, or tabs on the fuse. If you buy the Hacker mount (heavy, but works off just a firewall), it comes with a bearing. You buy the bearing separately several places - here is one:
http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.as...8&n=SMF1910-ZZ

As it turns out, I actually don't have a complete "nice" set of pictures of a single installation, but attached are a couple pics of my Prestiges (which have had many many motors in them).

Cooling is important....good cooling can drop the temps by 20F.

Regards,

Dave




ORIGINAL: jhatton

I went ahead and ordered the Hacker A60-20S... I couldn't pass up $189 with free shipping. Dave, Could you provide the pics of the motor mounting you mentioned in your earlier post?

I know with the Integeral I am going to be marginal on weight until I break down and get new wings made, but I will try to come close...
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:16 AM
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mithrandir
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Default RE: Motors Motors Motors...

I had maybe 30 flights in a 11.5 pound Funtana 140S with the A60-22S... and though it was no C50, with a APC 20 x 11 it was pretty good....
I could still get two snaps on an upline.... and quiet and smooooooth.....

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