2Sunny

Just got a new toy in the mail to try, and thought I'd share. Planning on running it in JAS's old Integral with the C50. I'll run 'er up tomorrow and post some numbers. It was 53g before adding the APPs, and I was shocked to find that the APPs only added 3gs.

Did a quick basement run. No screech at start up and no screech with top end or rapid throttle addition. Looks good so far!

Derek.Koopowitz

Mine arrived this past Saturday... can't wait to take her for a "spin".

woodie

What is new in the Pro? Looking at the programming card, I don't see any more functionality, just a tad lighter.

thx
Woodie

2Sunny

That's it Woodie, just a little lighter and cheaper than the previous generation of 80 amp/10s, but more than 2 ozs (60g) less than the more popular Hacker/Spin 99 and over $200 less [X(] which is what I replaced.

[link=http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2007]Hacker Master Spin 99 Brushless Opto ESC[/link] 110g/ $400
[link=http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=12010]Castle Creation Phoenix ICE 80HV Brushless ESC[/link] 105g/$161
[link=http://www.f3aunlimited.com/schulze.html]Schulze Fut-32.55KA[/link] 75g/$255
[link=http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=5337]Jeti Spin 75 Opto Brushless ESC[/link] 70g/$195

and now . . .

[link=http://Jeti Spin 75 Opto Brushless ESC]Jeti ADVANCE Pro 77 Amp Opto [/link] 55g/ $176

wingster

My Feedback: (26)

The Advance Pro has an additional brake and timing setting, as well as a few other changes.

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

14xl or 13xl on your runup tests?

I've been running the 14xl for quite some time on the Hacker 77 that weighs 60 grams with a deans and 4mm bullets with great success. I think it has the same stuff as this new Jeti but was more costly when it was available. Good to see this come out as mine in the older version of the Hacker 77 that looks like this Jeti 77 and it isn't available anymore! Oh, btw, I took off the heatshrink for cooling. Not sure it needed it, but it has never shut down on me. I pull 67-68 amps on the ground max.

Chris

2Sunny

Just got a Spin 75 in the mail. Not 70g, but rather 63g with 3.5mm bullets and APP battery connection. 7g heavier than its brother, but has all the "bells and whistles" like recording of temp, RPM, voltage, etc all available through the Spin Box. Only 7g difference, and a lot more functionality. Be interesting to see how the run ups compare

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Has the spin controllers recorded readings become more accurate? Are they trustable? Just wondering.

Thanks!

C

2Sunny

C. Moon brought up the same concerns and honestly I don't know if the latest generation is any better than previous models. I guess I'll have to reserve judgement unitl I can test these escs in the coming weeks. Seems it would be a shame to have all that functionality without any quality of readings. My quick impression from testing the Schulze last week and looking at Chris' data for the YGE versus the CCHV is that the Jeti 77 and 75 are in a "sweet spot" of weight versus performance for F3A. Seems like nobody else is even close, and I'm just surprised at how many folks are running the "fat" 90, 99, or CCHV.

Joe

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Accuracy of Jeti Spin recordings...

Well as a former dealer, who has no affiliation with anybody but credit card companies and debt collectors... ahem... I can say that the accuracy still sucks. They have never been really close as far as the amps, volts, rpm etc... HOWEVER, with that said, it's all relative. For posting information on here, the values are useless. But if you are trying to compare numbers for one prop/battery against another for yourself, the numbers are erroneous the same amount, so they can be used for comparison. Though, an EagleTree would be better for sure.

I've been using the Spin 75 for a couple months now and have been pretty happy with it. I had the first batch in the states when I was selling them... ended up giving them all back to the distributor as they all had problems. Looks like they have fixed all the issues, they run great... but the data logging does leave a bit to be desired... but that's not why I bought it.

Tom M

DaveL322

Having just wired up a brandy new HV80, I would note that the 105 gram weight includes rather long (~6") 10 gauge wires. With short leads, single connector, and bullets (more comparable to the Jeti in post 1, or a Schulze with bullets attached to the board), the weight would drop to about 70 grams. The accuracy of the data logging on the smaller ICE controllers I've used is very good (and should be the same on the HV ICE). And I'd further note that Castle ESCs are generally very conservatively rated, so I'd expect them to be more tolerant of the some of higher amp setups being used.

I hope to do some static testing the next few days.......flying is not looking likely with the low temps and snow in the forecast.

Regards,

Dave Lockhart
Team Castle Creations

2Sunny

Dave,

Thanks for the input! I hadn't realized how much modification was possible on the CCHVs. Do you have a photo to share as a "How To" example? Having not tried CC for a while I admit to not following the latest on firmware, but have they also resolved that awful screech? If the screech is gone, mods bring the weight down to 70g, the logging is superior to a Jeti 75, and the performance is comparable, I may need to pick one up myself



Joe

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

I'd also like to know more about the new CC. Dave any info is very helpful. Does anyone know when it will be available? Thanks, Mike

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I have been doing some motor/esc testing for the past couple of days, and had my Jeti out of the plane. So I thought I might as well wire up the CC ICE 80HV controller that I bought at the AMA show and give it a whirl.

I set it up with the settings that Luke gave me that he was using for this motor on the 85HV. Started up fine, seems to work okay... will need to fly it to really find out. But below is a graph that i pulled from the data recording. Pretty neat! The program gives you more usable info than is easily seen on the graph. Peak RPM was 6001, 77 amps, 2850 watts. That was a fresh Rhino battery... second run up was a little less and what you are most likely going to get in flight.

Much more accurate than the Jeti... though the Jeti is lighter. Mine came out to 3.4 ounces all wired up. If you have a tight installation and don't need very long wires, you can maybe get it to 3 ounce with the heat sink still on.

Tom M

lsjpeng

Tom:

The ICE data logger is much better than I thought, I probably will get one! Thanks!

Luke

2Sunny

I have to agree. That is a powerful datalogging tool! Looks like I'll be ordering another esc to try

DaveL322

Joe,
I don't have a particular "how to" on saving weight with the ESC.....I just know that a 5" piece of 10 gauge CC wiring is 7.5 grams, and if the rather long leads (all five of them) were cut to 1" in length, that would save 37 grams, then add back about 5 grams for a single power connector and 3 bullets for connecting to the motor......so 105-37+5 = 73 grams. Related point is that I'm quite happy to have long leads on the ESC that I can easily shorten.....lengthening them is not as easy. And in any case, it is really the weight of the ESC and ALL wiring that needs to be measured to be able to make accurate comparisons.

Mike,
I don't have any specific info on supply vs backorders for the CC80HV ICE, but they are most definitely in production.


Testing the CC80HV ICE

Ok......I did some static testing on my lipo break-in stand. Goal was to push the ESC/software/motor quite hard, so these "setups" are for testing only. From past experience, I know the Hacker A60-22S with CC85HV and 1.56 software was good for 90 - 100 amps and 3300 - 3500 watts before the "screech" occured (exact numbers depended on lipo voltage...higher voltage generally resulted in the screech occuring at a lower wattage level). I used an optical tach, Eagletree logger, APC 20x13E, and TP PL V2 10s5000 (freshly charged for each run) for all tests, which were done in a 36F garage (lipo was 68F at the start of each test). The Eagletree and ICE loggers were both set to 10x per second sampling rates.

CC85HV, 1.56 software, low timing, 13khz PWM, medium throttle response, fixed endpoints.
6000 RPM, ~98 amps, ~3550 watts, ~37 volts. I had to advance the throttle very slowly to get above 5700 RPM, and I was still only able to get to 95% throttle. Prior data I have (with lower C lipos) showed 6300 RPM, ~93 amps, ~3370 watts with no issues advancing the throttle.

CC85HV, 3.20 software, low timing, OR PWM, medium throttle response, fixed endpoints.
6000 RPM, ~82 amps, 3,100 watts, ~37.8 volts. I didn't "slap" the throttle to full, but advancing it fairly rapidly to full did not cause a screech.

CC80HV ICE, 3.20 software, low timing, OR PWM, medium throttle response, fixed endpoints.
6000 RPM (flashed 6100), ~82 amps, 3,000 watts, ~37.6 volts. I didn't "slap" the throttle to full, but advancing it fairly rapidly to full did not cause a screech.
From the ICE log, 6076 RPM, 84 amps, 3,125 watts, ~37.9 volts.

The RPM was a bit lower than I expected, and I am thinking this is attributable to the cold dense air (in which I am rarely playing with pattern setups). Both the 85HV and 80HV ICE hesitated very slightly at 100-200 RPM below peak before acclerating to the RPM figures I noted. I suspect this will go away in the air when the prop has unloaded.

Regards,

Dave Lockhart
Team Castle Creations

lsjpeng

Hi Dave:

The software you mentioned is Castle Link version or the Firmware version?
The motor squealing problem botherd us for a long time until we figured out the CC 85HV has to use firmware 2.0 and set timing to low. We are running Plett and Himax motors, APC 20.5x14 to 21x14 prop. We also found the high C cell such as 30C LiPo tends to squeal if advance throttle faster. Thanks!

Luke

DaveL322

Hi Luke,

Castle Link software version 3.241 and Phoenix Firmware 3.20 - I should have included that detail initially.

For most high power outrunners, Firmware 1.23 was good, and then 1.5x was not so good, until the 1.56 (very good). 2.xx is somewhere in the middle, and 3.20 looks to be a big improvement (good power and more efficient).

The squealing is generally related to a wattage level, and it would seem in some instances that higher voltage may reduce the number of watts at which the squealing will occur. The higher C lipos are squealing easier primarily because they are running at higher watt levels. Advancing the throttle slowly allows the lipo voltage to drop under load, thus reducing the peak watts compared to what might occur if the throttle is advanced rapidly.

Regards,

Dave Lockhart
Team Castle Creations

lsjpeng

Thanks! Dave, the info is very helpful.

Luke

Arnaldo

Hello Dave,

I use the Phoenix HV85 with C50-13xl Acro, tell me the correct firmware version ?

Thanks

DaveL322

Hi Arnaldo,

The firmware version should not be critical with the 13XL. Anything above 2.xx will pretty much give you all the features, I would use the 3.2, medium timing, 8 or 12 Khz, medium brake ramp, and start with the brake strength at 20%. Increase the brake strength 2-3% at a time if you want more braking.

Regards,

Dave Lockhart
Team Castle Creations

Arnaldo

Ok DAve,

Thanks for help me !!!

Do you know the last Neu motor for F3A ?

Work fine with HV 85 ?

thanks

DaveL322

Arnaldo,

Yes, I am familiar with the Neu F3A motor, I have several hundred flights from 2009. It works very well with the CC85. Compared to the 13XL, you should see a small increase in power, cooler motor temps, and a small increase in amps. Throttle response is very smooth.

Regards,

Dave Lockhart
Team Castle Creations

Arnaldo

Dave,

Where I can buy one ?

Tell me your model of the Neu ?

I dont know codes by Neu, only hacker !

C50-13xl
C50-14xl for exemplo.

thanks !