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What is up with Neu?

Old 04-05-2010, 08:44 AM
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LCHelilover
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Default What is up with Neu?

I have delayed this flame for a while now but I just want to know if it is just me or is it really hard to get a Neu Motor?

My Saga starts 2.5 years ago when I saw the F3A Neumotors at the Nats in Todd Blose, Chip Hyde and a few other planes. They all were giving high praise and said the motors would be "in production" in the near future. Castle Creations was announced as the "distributor" so I spent about 4 months intermittently talking to people there who seemed to have no clue what I was talking about, or said they'd call me "when it was available".......so around Christmas I decided to go with something else and did.

At the Nats last summer, again "production Neu Motors" recieved more visibility and praise, so I decided to try one in this winter's project. Before Christmas last year, I called Castle and ordered a Neu F3A and they actually knew what I was talking about and sent me an invoice saying the motor would be shipped directly from Neu and "they are on an 8 week build time". So somewhat dissappointed, I set my calendar for mid February and put the otherwise completed Pentathlon Evo aside waiting for motor installation. Mid February has come and gone, so two weeks ago <early March> I started trying to find out what was going on. It took me a week of repeated phone calls and emails to Castle before I finally got a reply forwarded from Neu saying that "we are waiting for a part and expect to have the motor out in 2 to three weeks".

I still don't have a motor and it's not an April fools joke!


Is it just me?

George
Old 04-05-2010, 08:51 AM
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Walt Thyng
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

Sounds like Astro Bob has a competitor - and not jsut in products (-:
Walt
Old 04-05-2010, 09:55 AM
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wingster
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

I've had an F3A motor in for repair and updating since the beginning of the year. I was told they were waiting for parts. I finally got a call on Friday saying the motor was ready to be shipped. Maybe yours is not far behind.
Old 04-05-2010, 09:57 AM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

I ordered two, with two months difference from Esprit Models and got them right away, even with combo discount, check them out.
Old 04-05-2010, 09:58 AM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

Yes, Neu has had a hard time keeping up with demand for the F3a motor.  They are all hand built here in San Diego, but do require some parts from outside vendors.  No it is not just you.  Steve Neu has a Passport on the bench waiting for a motor.  He keeps having to send his entire production out to customers, and never gets one for his own plane.  Be paitent, it is worth the wait.
Old 04-05-2010, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

Not just you George...

I bought my Neu from Esprit this summer. To say I had issues would be an understatement... The quick version is that the mounting holes were not tapped in the motor. Looking at them they appeared to not be machined straight. So I sent it back. Once there, I got a call saying that I had the old version of the motor (it had only been out for a couple months...) and that in addition to the repair on the gearbox I would need new wires and another mod that I forget right now. Unfortunately, no parts... About three weeks later I finally get my motor shipped back to me... once I got it, the repair to the gearbox was NOT MADE. Emailed Neu and got no response. Fine, whatever, I got my motor...

I flew it for about a hundred flights. It was good, had power, but not very smooth. I tried a couple other motors and thought maybe I should just sell the Neu and start over. When I took the motor out of the Black Magic I decided to clean it and lube it prior to sale. I noticed that one of the front bearings was rough... and I mean like filled with rocks... now what to do? Can't sell it that way. I had bought a couple motors from a guy who said, "oh their fine" once... yeah, one trashed and worthless, one requiring a $200 repair, and the other was runable. To sell something knowing it's screwed up would not be right. Anyhoo...

When I went to the AMA show in SoCal I talked with one of the techs at the Neu booth about my situation and he apologized for what happened and said to send it in for repair. I told him it was probably going to be waiting for him when he got back to work. Couple days later he called to say that it was on it's way back to me and that he replaced the gearbox. Much better service this time...

Motor sat on the shelf while I tested a few others and weighed my options. Finally I brought it out and put it back in the plane and I have to say that I like it. I wouldn't have thought that a bad bearing (that was always there) would make that much of a difference. Motor runs smooth and strong and sounds much better than it ever did before.

I like the motor now, still not sure I made the right decision to stick with it, but we'll see how it all turns out. Customer service is bad (but has improved at least for me)... repairs are slow as is production. I hope this gets fixed at some point as I don't think pattern guys will put up with it for long.

If you get a motor George, I think you'll like it. But don't believe the hype, it's just another motor with just a bit more power than most, but you pay for that with the higher amps.

Tom M
Old 04-05-2010, 02:12 PM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

I've flown mostly outrunners because I didn't want to hassle with another potential failure and service point- gearbox. I decided to try the Neu in hopes that because it is "made in the USA" service and parts would be BETTER than a competing German product.....apparently this is not a reality. At this point, I am not going to fly this plane this season anyway, so I'm gonna have to rethink the whole situation. I'll probably just fly my BMV3 with the AXI 5330 F3A again this year.

Even if I get the Neu Motor, I'm not sure that I'd want to compete with it knowing that a replacement or repair may not be quick. If Steve Neu can't get one of his own products, what does that say for availability to a schmoe like me
Old 04-05-2010, 05:26 PM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

Guys,

I cannot speak for Steve I can only tell you how and why he has an F3A motor for us.

A couple years ago when I could not get any service from Hacker USA I had to find another alternative. I had heard of Steve Neu but never met him so I gave him a call. We spoke about an F3A motor at an affordable price the was built in the US and he delivered. Only a couple people were willing to stray away from the norm, so when he asked me how many motors a year we were talking about I told him 40-50. I based this upon the sales I knew of with Hacker and figured it would just be another specialty motor.

The reality is that more and more people are switching to electric every day and most of them have seen the advantages of the in-runner. Steve has been overwhelmed to say the least by this and my estimate of motors was way off. In these trying times it has been difficult to keep up with all the orders yet he has been preparing for the contest season.

All I can say is this. I do not to date know of anyone that has not been able to fly in a contest because of not being able to get a motor or one serviced. I know that Steve is dedicated to supporting us and that in my opinoun his motors are by far the best there are. I cannot go into detail about future products but I can tell you this. He is working tiressly on F3A motors and it is quite possible that there may be something coming that is 20% less exspensive, 15% lighter and equal in power with increased reliability.

This is not a replacement motor so doñ,t freak out this is just another option. The big hold up is me at this time because I have had it for testing for several weeks but have not been able to do so for one reason or another.

My advice to everyone is to continue to go through castle and to be patient for a little longer. I know it is tough but realistically contest season is not yet upon us and it is much cheaper then any comparible alternative.

Chip


ORIGINAL: LCHelilover

I've flown mostly outrunners because I didn't want to hassle with another potential failure and service point- gearbox. I decided to try the Neu in hopes that because it is ''made in the USA'' service and parts would be BETTER than a competing German product.....apparently this is not a reality. At this point, I am not going to fly this plane this season anyway, so I'm gonna have to rethink the whole situation. I'll probably just fly my BMV3 with the AXI 5330 F3A again this year.

Even if I get the Neu Motor, I'm not sure that I'd want to compete with it knowing that a replacement or repair may not be quick. If Steve Neu can't get one of his own products, what does that say for availability to a schmoe like me
Old 04-05-2010, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?


ORIGINAL: LCHelilover
If Steve Neu can't get one of his own products, what does that say for availability to a schmoe like me
The point was that Steve Neu puts his customer's (schmoes like you and me, lol)interest before his own. Like Chip said, the demand for this motor has far exceeded expectations. He will catch up, and I don't think it will be an issue for long.
Old 04-05-2010, 09:24 PM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

I look forward to having a US made power system available and reliable service from a US maker; that will be great. I used the NEU F3A part of last year, performance equalled outrunners I was using. But my experience with the NEU has been similar to what I had with AXI F3A; frequent service requirement and long repair turn around. So its not all a loss, just hope he gets things sorted out soon and I will try again.
Old 04-06-2010, 07:13 AM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

Brian is correct about last year, we found a few problems but Steve has been able to sort them out. The soft wires, new fan and better bearings have really solved all of the problems I know of. This new run of motors will have all of those things and more. I will be back in the states in a couple weeks but if anyone has a question feel free to pm me and I will see If I can help or connect you with someone that can.

Chip
Old 06-01-2010, 11:25 PM
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Jim Grunt
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

new fan. When was this discovered. Here's my story. I received my first F3 A. motor last spring and after setting it up in the Genesis the first run-up at full throttle after about 2 seconds there was a sudden change in the tone of the motor, I shut it down and noticed that the motor housing separated from the fan housing so I took it out of the plane and send it back to NEU. I purchased a new motor for the plane while the first one was in for repairs and I got the first motor back and the repair slip said the rotor was out of spec. I put the repaired motor in my backup plane and it didn't see much use but now during the spring have been flying that plane and took the motor out to grease the gearbox and found the fan loose and a small piece of some kind of clip wedge between it. For some reason the motor in my primary plane is now drawing almost 10 amps more than it was last year. am I the only one that went electric because reliability issues and doesn't seem to be working out.

P. S. My first motor is now three weeks past one year so it should I just keep it in my basement for parts.


Hope you have better luck than me Jim
Old 06-02-2010, 08:30 PM
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Doug Cronkhite
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

It's important to remember that in any sort of production there will be anomalies and mistakes. They happen. I've known Steve for the better part of 25 years and he's a stand up guy who WILL take care of you.
Old 06-02-2010, 09:01 PM
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Jim Grunt
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

I have never met Steve. But to me not answering e-mails and not answering his phone for over a week says something to me. All in all I'm happy with the power and performance of the motor but to have the plane down for six months at a time is just not worth it. Power and performance is one thing but right now I would surely sacrifice some power for dependability. at this time all I can say is I'm very frustrated. If he doesn't answer his phone when will he take care of me.

frustrated in Ohio, and I'm not the only one, Jim
Old 06-02-2010, 10:21 PM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

G'day Jim,

Firstly, let me say that I have never owned a Neu motor. But I have made some observations...

I know of two people here in Australia that have been using Neu motors in F3A models. Both have had issues similar to yours. One of them (a prominent Australian pilot) had the misfortune of burning two models to the ground. He believes it was due to the Neu motors. Having said that, the importer believes the ESC's (Spin 99 & CCHV85) were at fault due to being under rated at mid throttle settings. On an older Neu motor (not the new F3A version) used in an F3A model I have seen the rear bearing housing collapse. In my opinion the rear housing was lightened too much and with heat, may have become brittle.

There is no doubt that Neu motors are light and develop very good power but their reliability seems to be questionable. Is it related to design, materials or quality? I really don't know. One would assume that Neu is doing all they can to rectify the issues though. If they wish to stay in the business, then it's in their best interests to fix the issues....

Having said all that, no manufacturer is perfect but some are better than others. It really gets down to personal choice and research.

Personally, I use an out-runner for it's low maintenance and reliability.

Regards
Jason.
Old 06-02-2010, 10:48 PM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

Not to turn this into a love em or hate em thread, I can say that a lot of guys are using the Neu F3A here in Southern California. I'm a fairly early adopter of the Neu F3A-1. I've had all the issues which plagued the initial version such as broken motor wires, loose fan and pinion. Steve Neu corrected the issues as they arose. I've never had anything serious happen like the friend from Oz. Each time I sent one to Steve he cranked in all the development fixes he's made. It's a new motor, relatively speaking, but he's seriously upgraded it while maintaining and increasing performance. I'm happy with mine. I knew going in that it was a brand new development but it comes from one of the real leaders in world championship motor development. I expected some growing pains. They have gotten better and more reliable. If I have any issues in the future I'll just send them in.
Old 06-02-2010, 11:10 PM
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Jason Arnold
 
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

G'day Steve?,

Sounds like you knew what you were in for and were willing to help with development. F3A would not be what it is without this work.

It sounds like some expected the product to be already in a developed state and it wasn't. Perhaps the product was released to market too early?

Cheers
Jason.
Old 06-02-2010, 11:47 PM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

ORIGINAL: Aussie_Knife_Edge

G'day Steve?,

Sounds like you knew what you were in for and were willing to help with development. F3A would not be what it is without this work.

It sounds like some expected the product to be already in a developed state and it wasn't. Perhaps the product was released to market too early?

Cheers
Jason.
Hi Jason
I'm not sure about it being released too early. They sort of dribbled into the marketplace since he was a bit capacity limited. I don't have a lot of experience with motor development but this one seems par for the course. I had problems with the dualsky motors prior to this and just figured that they all include a bit of R&D. I'm an engineer so development pains are expected with new stuff (and I like to be involved with that stuff for some odd reason). Heck, when I flew YS I had the typical 2, one in the plane and one in the shop... LOL. I still get 2 of whatever I run. At first I was rotating my motors to Neu regularly. But now it's been quite a while since I sent one in. I haven't counted flights but I've flown the majority of this season on one motor so far and haven't pulled it for any maintenance. I will be sending in my backup to get the same wires and other mods however. It does seem that your friend had some pretty bad experiences overall. I hope he sticks with it.


Steve
Old 06-02-2010, 11:52 PM
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Jason Arnold
 
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

Getting back to what the original gripe was about i.e. long delay in getting a Neu motor, just maybe this was due to the ongoing development issues. Sounds logical to me...

Cheers
Jason.
Old 06-03-2010, 12:15 AM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

Hi Steve,

Yes I remember reading about the capacity constraints. I fully understand that issue as I'm in electronics manufacturing myself.. We also do design and development and so I can appreciated the unique dramas involved there too.

The person I was speaking of has jumped straight back on the horse. It's the only way to do it in my opinion.

YS... We say "Y Suffer" down here. It's an in joke so to speak to stir up the YS guys. All good banter.

Cheers
Jason.
Old 06-03-2010, 09:05 PM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

Not that I want to upset anyone or further my reputation for being a bit confrontational, but honestly I don't understand the interest in the Neu. You buy a Pletty, stick it in the nose, and fly the heck out of it for years with no worries and no maintenance. Sure the Neu on a good day will give you some minor advantages in efficiency and power, but they both fly any sequence you want with way more power than you need, but one breaks and one doesn't. I haven't actually owned a Neu myself, but recently had an extended discussion with a longtime user and to say he has had "problems" is to put it mildly.

Like I said . . . please don't hate me . . . just tryin' to understand why all the fuss when there is a super simple solution already on the table.



Joe
Old 06-03-2010, 10:45 PM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

ORIGINAL: 2Sunny
. . . just tryin' to understand
Well, it seems you already have your mind made up. So if you are trying to understand why anyone would buy a Neu then I guess you'll just remain clueless.

Sorry, you left yourself wide open on that one
Old 06-03-2010, 10:46 PM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

.
Old 06-04-2010, 12:20 AM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?

Joe,

As has been acknowledged, the Neu F3A motor indeed suffered from some develepment issues. Not unlike virtually every YS introduced, or the pre-comp version of the Hacker C50, or the first "pattern" offerings from Himax and Dualsky. And Neu is suffering from growing pains from huge market demands.....not unlike many electric suppliers (show me anyone who has consistent stock for the in demand pattern goodies).

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the extra power and efficiency the Neu provides.....especially when you are flying in a class that is relatively "easy" on equipment. For your current needs, there are many options that provide more power than needed, so it makes sense to go with the most reliable option (whatever you think that may be). Pattern fliers will go to extremes to gain a competitive advantage....and at the highest levels, very small advantages do make the difference. I owned a pre-Evo Plett (ran great), and have flown the current Evo a fair bit (nice motor), and the AXI F3A a fair bit. I own a couple of the NEU F3A motors, and I'll stick with them - for the weight, they make the most power, are the most efficient, and have the smoothest throttle response - just my opinion of course. If the NEU F3A were not available, I'd likely run the Evo, or, since I have room for the weight, I'd the Hacker A60-16M which is bulletproof, cheap, and makes more power than anything listed in this thread (and is ~ +5 oz to the Evo).

Regards,

Old 06-04-2010, 09:45 AM
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Default RE: What is up with Neu?


ORIGINAL: DaveL322

Joe,

As has been acknowledged, the Neu F3A motor indeed suffered from some develepment issues. Not unlike virtually every YS introduced, or the pre-comp version of the Hacker C50, or the first ''pattern'' offerings from Himax and Dualsky. And Neu is suffering from growing pains from huge market demands.....not unlike many electric suppliers (show me anyone who has consistent stock for the in demand pattern goodies).

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the extra power and efficiency the Neu provides.....especially when you are flying in a class that is relatively ''easy'' on equipment. For your current needs, there are many options that provide more power than needed, so it makes sense to go with the most reliable option (whatever you think that may be). Pattern fliers will go to extremes to gain a competitive advantage....and at the highest levels, very small advantages do make the difference. I owned a pre-Evo Plett (ran great), and have flown the current Evo a fair bit (nice motor), and the AXI F3A a fair bit. I own a couple of the NEU F3A motors, and I'll stick with them - for the weight, they make the most power, are the most efficient, and have the smoothest throttle response - just my opinion of course. If the NEU F3A were not available, I'd likely run the Evo, or, since I have room for the weight, I'd the Hacker A60-16M which is bulletproof, cheap, and makes more power than anything listed in this thread (and is ~ +5 oz to the Evo).

Regards,

You'd be exceeding the A60 specs if you tried to get the power we typically run with the newer low IR batteries.

ome > Hacker Brushless Motors > 3D Aero/Sport > 10 to 14 lbs > Hacker Brushless A60-16M


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kV(RPM/V): 215
Diameter: 2.33 in
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