Go Back  RCU Forums > Electric Aircraft Universe > Electric Pattern Aircraft
Reload this Page >

Contra Rotating Propeller Drive for f3a 2m Pattern Planes

Notices
Electric Pattern Aircraft Discuss epowered pattern aircraft in this forum

Contra Rotating Propeller Drive for f3a 2m Pattern Planes

Old 06-19-2020, 01:52 PM
  #1951  
pippy
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Galway, IRELAND
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hi Peter, do you know what your max current draw is with the Falcon props. I’m using Mezon speed controller with the Brenner 23inch props and max current is usually at 74Amps.
Old 06-19-2020, 03:52 PM
  #1952  
PeterP
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Hi Pippy,

Typical 82-85 amps Max. In heavy wind 89 but my batteries are getting tired so could inflate the values slightly.
Old 07-12-2020, 04:47 AM
  #1953  
pippy
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Galway, IRELAND
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hi Peter, I have tried a set of Falcon propellers and am pleased with the performance. I flew the P schedule on a calm day with original Brenner props and then with the Falcons. The numbers from my Mezon were almost identical. 74A , 3450 mA draw and revs slightly higher with the falcon. The sound was a little different ( small bit of syncopation) as falcons are the same length but it was so small not to be unpleasant. A good alternative and cheaper due to less shipping costs and no duty to be paid. Difference approx €75.
Old 07-12-2020, 04:52 AM
  #1954  
Brenner
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bridgman, MI
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pippy View Post
Hi Peter, I have tried a set of Falcon propellers and am pleased with the performance. I flew the P schedule on a calm day with original Brenner props and then with the Falcons. The numbers from my Mezon were almost identical. 74A , 3450 mA draw and revs slightly higher with the falcon. The sound was a little different ( small bit of syncopation) as falcons are the same length but it was so small not to be unpleasant. A good alternative and cheaper due to less shipping costs and no duty to be paid. Difference approx Ä75.
Why is shipping so expensive?

Brenner ...
Old 07-12-2020, 06:12 AM
  #1955  
pippy
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Galway, IRELAND
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hi Brenner, shipping by courier was $79. The duty (25%) is paid on the cost of the items plus the cost of shipping. That was another $74. It all adds up.
Old 07-13-2020, 07:55 AM
  #1956  
pippy
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Galway, IRELAND
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Just a note to clarify that Brenner / Mike has no control over the shipping and duty costs of course. It’s one of the problems we suffer living across the pond. Also the service was excellent and for that shipping cost I had the propellers in 4 days. In fact the original cost of the propellers has only changed by $5 in 5 years but exchange rate has narrowed between the dollar and the euro.
The quality of your propellers is to a very high standard every time. They are very light and well balanced.

So thanks for the service and sorry about the moaning re costs etc.

Old 07-13-2020, 02:34 PM
  #1957  
PeterP
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I would recommend the Falcon 23x22 R and the 22x20F for the V4. Amps are higher @ 80-85A typical for P.
Old 08-30-2020, 10:53 PM
  #1958  
pippy
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Galway, IRELAND
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by PeterP View Post
I would recommend the Falcon 23x22 R and the 22x20F for the V4. Amps are higher @ 80-85A typical for P.
Iím finding the Mejzlik 23x20 front and 22x22 rear feel almost the same as the Brenner props. Sounds is also quiet. The only change I made was increase the throttle by 5% for a little extra power.
Old 08-31-2020, 07:18 AM
  #1959  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 398
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

I am running a D3 esc on my V4 and I am somewhat concerned about the prop noise on "braking". I run the typical 22X20 and 22X22 props. I am learning to slow my throttle transitions on down-lines, but until I master this, is there a different prop combo. that will lessen the noise? Second, does the prop noise indicate stress that is a problem?
Old 08-31-2020, 07:06 PM
  #1960  
PeterP
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

What RPM are your props spinning in downlines? I assume you are in your normal flight condition at that point. Remember the D3 starts braking from 99% throttle stick position. The braking effect is powerful and unlike a conventional ESC.
Old 09-01-2020, 05:39 AM
  #1961  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 398
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

I don't know of a way to check static or downline rpm's on a V4. I have to assume it's about half of mid-stick, which is about 3,000-3,200/2 = 1,500-1,600? I understand that braking, regardless of stick position, is immediate. If I slowly reduce power, there is negligible prop noise. I may have to raise my normal flight condition rpm's.
Thanks Peter.
Old 09-01-2020, 06:40 AM
  #1962  
PeterP
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I use a unisense-E for onboard telemetry. My RPM at low throttle is 2100 RPM in normal flight mode. I had a similar issue to what you are experiencing and found that prop choice made little difference. I would suggest using a throttle delay for both directions. My throttle delay is set to 20 (Futaba) which is significant - takes about 5-6 seconds to go from 4000 RPM to 2000 RPM.
Old 09-01-2020, 07:12 AM
  #1963  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 398
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Peter, my throttle delay is about the same on down-throttle, a little less delay on up-throttle. I will boost my normal flight rpm.

Thanks, Gary
Old 09-08-2020, 07:47 PM
  #1964  
patternflyer1
My Feedback: (11)
 
patternflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

New to the Contra game (yeah, clearly late). I bought a Cuantic used. V4. Pyro 650-83. I put 23” props on it. Came with a Phx Edge 120. Want to change that out. What are ya’ll running as an ESC that I can get in the US within a week?

Here’s my issue. It has too good of braking on a down line with no idle. I don’t care for flying with no idle on 45 down lines. With a slight idle it’s too fast on down line (Plane is under 4800G). I haven’t checked the settings in the ESC I have. But I am assuming there is something lighter and better. Not knocking the Castle. I’ve run castles in my pattern planes for over a decade. Never an issue.

Thanks for any help. I appreciate it as I’m not sure if I am sold on this yet. I want to be.. Don’t get me wrong. Just need a better down line and 45 down line.
Old 09-09-2020, 04:52 AM
  #1965  
PeterP
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I am using the D3 ESC but it will take some time to get on top of it. The ESC must be matched to your current motor so I am not sure that is available. I've had good results with the Jeti Mezon 95opto if you are looking for a non-governor style of ESC. Going from memory I recall using a brake setting of 34% with a 1-second delay. I would also add a delay on your throttle channel in your TX to stop the braking from being so aggressive.

Old 09-09-2020, 06:47 AM
  #1966  
Bubblehead575
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I have the same motor combo with 22" props and use the Jeti Mezon Opto 95, I have also used the Castle Edge 80. Issue is availability in the US right now. I have been looking to buy an Opto 95 and cant find anyone with them in stock. Another option is the OS/Futaba 1100 but that also has an issue with availability right now.

If you are not in need of the improved vertical of the 23" props you might consider the 22", it will reduce the downline breaking.
Old 09-09-2020, 06:44 PM
  #1967  
patternflyer1
My Feedback: (11)
 
patternflyer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Thanks for the tips. I figured availability was going to be an issue. I have a D3 for my Adverrun single so wouldn’t mind going that route. I haven’t flown it yet though.

Another question, are ya’ll running an idle? Or do you run with no idle? Maybe I can change the brake setting to a more desired one with this CC 120 until I get a D3.

Thanks!
Old 10-04-2020, 08:57 AM
  #1968  
CRTF3A
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hello, Can anyone help me on setup settings for an Castle Edge 120HV to start with? I will install a Contra Drive V4 with Kontronik 600 10 poles
- Brake Strength
- Brake Delay
- Brake Ramp
- Motor Timing, Castel has a range from 0(low) to 10(high)
- PWM Rate

Thank you!
Old 01-22-2021, 10:13 AM
  #1969  
Rcpilot
My Feedback: (78)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,789
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Did the contra rotating props ever catch on?

If yes, where can I get one without scanning 80 pages of this thread for a link?

Thanks very much for any leads.
Old 01-22-2021, 10:16 AM
  #1970  
Brenner
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bridgman, MI
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Rcpilot View Post
Did the contra rotating props ever catch on?

If yes, where can I get one without scanning 80 pages of this thread for a link?

Thanks very much for any leads.
Yes, Contra Drives have definitely caught on for pattern. You can purchase a V4 Contra Drive from www.f3aunlimited.com

Brenner ...
Old 01-22-2021, 10:27 AM
  #1971  
Brenner
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bridgman, MI
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by patternflyer1 View Post
New to the Contra game (yeah, clearly late). I bought a Cuantic used. V4. Pyro 650-83. I put 23Ē props on it. Came with a Phx Edge 120. Want to change that out. What are yaíll running as an ESC that I can get in the US within a week?

Hereís my issue. It has too good of braking on a down line with no idle. I donít care for flying with no idle on 45 down lines. With a slight idle itís too fast on down line (Plane is under 4800G). I havenít checked the settings in the ESC I have. But I am assuming there is something lighter and better. Not knocking the Castle. Iíve run castles in my pattern planes for over a decade. Never an issue.

Thanks for any help. I appreciate it as Iím not sure if I am sold on this yet. I want to be.. Donít get me wrong. Just need a better down line and 45 down line.
Based on my experience last year I can recommend the Kontronik Jive 80 ESC, and the D3 ESC from Adam Debowski. You have to purchase a D3 ESC that has specifically been programmed for a V4 Contra Drive. You can get a D3 ESC from www.f3aunlimited.com

The Jive is a typical ESC, but it is capable of faster PWM frequencies that are better suited for the V4 Pyro 600 Kontronik motor. You will be able to program this ESC with the separately purchased programmer for any braking strength that you would like.

The D3 ESC uses an entirely new type of concept. This ESC dynamically measures the motor rpm using a sensorless algorithm, and then controls the power of the motor so that it runs at a constant speed. This type of control will automatically apply the brake if the motor speeds up too much on the downlines, and it will automatically add power if the motor slows down too much on the up lines. You can actually hear the brake being applied on the downlines while you are holding the throttle at a constant position.

Both ESCs are excellent. I am currently running the D3. It took me a few flights to get used to it, but for me it offers a definite advantage when used with a V4 Contra Drive. The D3 is also cheaper than the Kontronik Jive, and it doesn't need to be programmed.

Brenner ...
Old 01-25-2021, 11:10 AM
  #1972  
pippy
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Galway, IRELAND
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hi Brenner, great information as usual. When using the D3 esc do you still use the throttle tech?
Old 01-25-2021, 11:23 AM
  #1973  
Brenner
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bridgman, MI
Posts: 763
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by pippy View Post
Hi Brenner, great information as usual. When using the D3 esc do you still use the throttle tech?
Hey Paul,

No I don't. The D3 is programmed with a maximum allowable rpm, which it uses to govern the rpm at max throttle so the Throttle Tech device isn't needed. It saves me 25g or so, which is nice.

One thing I am doing this year is I am going to be using a D3 ESC that is programmed to have a higher max rpm than the standard value that Adam uses. This is because I am using a custom wound Bert Decker motor that has a 970 rpm/V kv instead of the standard motor's 940 rpm/V kv. During 2020 I used this same motor with the standard D3 max rpm value and it was limiting the maximum power available from my motor. I am hoping that this year I will be able to extract more power from my motor. That extra power can be really useful on the back side of looping maneuvers on windy days.

Brenner ...
Old 04-02-2021, 12:38 PM
  #1974  
orthobird
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: shreveport, LA
Posts: 883
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

I have a brand new D3 ESC and Plettenberg Advance on 10S.

today was flight 3 and 4

it has done this from the get go.
On long UP-LINES, the motor quits, loses power. I level off, and 3 seconds later, it starts to spin again.

Anyone know why this is?

Using telemetry, I see that battery is charged to 42 volts.
and when this happens, the voltage drops to 35 volts, and then amp peak is near to 65.
Old 04-02-2021, 01:59 PM
  #1975  
snaproll4
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I admit right up front that I do not know anything about the D3. However, I have a Jeti 130 that did exactly the same thing. The problem was the "low voltage" cutoff setting. I thought it was safe at 3.5 volts per cell, but it wasn't. I had mine set for a "soft" cut off so it just sagged a little and then came back just like your ESC is doing. I fixed the problem by lowering the cutoff voltage setting to 3.2 volts per cell.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.