Go Back  RCU Forums > Electric Aircraft Universe > Electric Pattern Aircraft
Reload this Page >

European Cup for F3A on floats

Notices
Electric Pattern Aircraft Discuss epowered pattern aircraft in this forum

European Cup for F3A on floats

Old 08-24-2010, 02:13 AM
  #1  
Neo02
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Neo02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Lugano, SWITZERLAND
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default European Cup for F3A on floats

Hi there,
just to report that the European Cup for F3A-H (on floats) was held past weekend in Endine Gaiano (near Bergamo, Italy) and was an excellent competition.
Float-fly F3A planes are rather uncommon in Europe and - as far as I know - virtually non-existent in the rest of the world. Over here we have a 50+ years experience with aerobatic floatplanes and are keen on continuing this wonderful tradition.
The competition was won by Philip Rannetshauser (Germany), 2nd place Nils Br├╝ckner (also Germany) and 3rd place myself. Germany also won the Nations Cup, where the total score of the 3 best pilots of each country are added and build the team score.
I'm available for further information on the class and its competitions, spread across Europe. Next stop is our own competition in Lugano (51th edition!), on september 11 and 12.

Best regards
Fabrizio
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Jh14953.jpg
Views:	236
Size:	151.3 KB
ID:	1489396   Click image for larger version

Name:	Je10982.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	247.5 KB
ID:	1489397   Click image for larger version

Name:	If10412.jpg
Views:	236
Size:	155.9 KB
ID:	1489398   Click image for larger version

Name:	Wu61116.jpg
Views:	746
Size:	214.7 KB
ID:	1489399  
Old 08-24-2010, 06:42 AM
  #2  
2Sunny
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: pound ridge, NY
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: European Cup for F3A on floats

Fabrizio,

Thanks for sharing the wonderful pictures! I have been looking for information on Float Pattern Planes for well over a year with little luck. Are all the planes specially modified or does someone manufacture a Float Plane kit? If they are modified do you have any advice on how to modify a pattern plane? It appears to me that the floats are considerably smaller than traditional floats. Is that correct, and if so what do you do differently when setting them up?

Best of luck in your upcoming competition, and thanks for any help!

Joe in NY
Old 08-24-2010, 01:12 PM
  #3  
Neo02
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Neo02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Lugano, SWITZERLAND
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: European Cup for F3A on floats

Hi Joe,

The planes are usually standard pattern (F3A) planes, there are exceptions of course. I currently fly a Leviosa (www.f3alorenz.de), but used PLProd Larimar, CA Models Eclipse and others in the past.
I build the floats myself by cutting a foam core, heeting with 1.5mm balsa and covering in Oracover. My floats are about 900mm in length, 95mm wide and 90mm at its' highest (on the step). They can be smaller of course, but since we mostly fly on a big lake ([link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Lugano]Lake Lugano[/link]) and occasionally need to battle with waves and wind, we decided to have some volume that keeps our planes afloat. German competitors, for instance, use to fly on small ponds and their floats are pretty much "minimal". Great for those conditions, but I've seen that they struggle when waves hit the water.
How to connect the floats to the fuselage? For the front I use the stock landing gear support wherever possible; for the back I glued a 3mm plywood support behind the wing tube (CG position), about the same height as the landing gear, and used a second set of identical carbon fibre landing gears. Other options include struts that are attached to the wing and fuselage, and recently I've seen struts that are attached only to the wing, which is a very nice solution as well (see the "Impact" on the group picture in the above post).
When setting the plane up I make sure that the top part of the float is at a 0┬░ angle with the horizontal stab. Next I make sure that the "step" is 1 to 2 cm in front of the CG. Most people will probably disagree with this, since having the step behind the CG helps in stabilizing the plane's takeoff runs. But since with electric we need to swing larger props, it helps a lot if the plane's attitude when taxiing is with its nose high (actually, the vertical stab of my plane slightly touches the water ), allowing for extra clearance between prop and water. When applying power for the take off, these light planes quickly "get on the step", and are able to build up speed without problems.
I attach a couple pictures that should help explaining. The first one is of the inside of Philip Rannetshauser's plane, also a "Leviosa", which I used as reference for building mine.
Of course I can also post specific pictures, should you wish so.
There are some web sites that deal with F3A-H (or F3A-W as for "Wasserflug", or "-I" as for "Idro", in the german or italian translation). I reccommend www.modell-wasserflug.de run by fellow competitor Georg Thanner from Germany.
You can find pictures of our last year's contest over here: http://www.gal.ch/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=3146

Thanks for your interest!

Fabrizio
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Zx71657.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	140.8 KB
ID:	1489606  
Old 08-27-2010, 02:49 PM
  #4  
wagen017
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Eindhoven, NETHERLANDS
Posts: 969
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: European Cup for F3A on floats

you should name it the "Schneider trophy" although that in the end was all about speed only, more like pylon racing!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_Trophy

Volkert
Old 08-27-2010, 03:23 PM
  #5  
Neo02
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Neo02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Lugano, SWITZERLAND
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: European Cup for F3A on floats

There have been attempts at recreating a "small" Schneider Trophy with R/C model airplanes. There still is, if I recall correctly, something like this in Texas, with big planes.
What we do is something completely different though. Ever since the first attempts at taking off from water (with free-flight, diesel powered planes, ca. 1935-1940), it's all about precision, and harmony. Just like F3A, but with floats.

Best regards
Fabrizio

EDIT: the scale Schneider Trophy is held on Lake Havasu, Arizona (not Texas)... Sorry for the mistake.
Old 08-27-2010, 10:33 PM
  #6  
Mvelez
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Manizales, COLOMBIA
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: European Cup for F3A on floats

Hello Fabrizio:

Very interesting way of doing F3A, but I think the statement: "it's just like F3A but with floats" deserves for us, a little more elaboration  he he he

Several questions arise for me specially regarding the trimming and behavior of the plane, do you use standard trimming methods? how does a plane with floats behaves on snaps? spins? do you feel it different on integrated maneuvers?

what is the total weight difference from a standard gear to a second gear and floats? you you make the 5000 g for the FAI sporting code?

do you guys all fly electric? or also use glow? do you protect equipment in any way?

sorry for the questionnaire but this is really new...
Old 08-28-2010, 05:23 AM
  #7  
Neo02
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Neo02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Lugano, SWITZERLAND
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: European Cup for F3A on floats

Hi 'Mvelez',

Actually with "F3A on floats" I said something stupid. Of course it's F3A planes on floats, but the schedules and the atmosphere are something unique to float flying and deserve it's rightful place inside this big, beautiful world of r/c model airplanes.
With floats, the planes weigh about 200 to 400g more than with wheels: the main advantages are: remove wheels and wheel pants, remove tail gear, exchange the sturdy landing gear with a more light one (there's two of them to absorb the energy when landing, so they can be chosen lighter), add 1 additional landing gear, 2x floats and 1 water rudder coupled with rudder.
This means that the limit of 5 kg is only achieved if the plane is very light to start with. There are talks to increase this limit to 5'300g or even 5'500 for the next season, as it is getting more and more difficult to find light planes. Floats need to be as light as possible. Mine weigh approx. 150g each (foam core, balsa sheeted), and I have already built 125g floats with no structural issues - it's not always easy to get the same quality foam and balsa here in Ticino...
At last year's competition, out of 30+ participants, only 4 were flying with IC engines. The transition happened around 2005-2006 (I was personally one of the first pilots to switch, following the example of Manfred Greve of Germany that was as I recall the first electric-powered floatplane to be seen), now electrics are more common and that's a good thing. Of course, some precautions need to be taken in order to save equipment from water spray, but sincerely I have not seen a single piece of equipment fail, even in bad weather (wind and waves), provided the plane was build for such conditions (bigger floats). I treated all balsa exposed to water with thinned epoxy resin which makes them durable. The power train has no particular treatment. Of course, if the model dives into water or crashes it most likely will fry the ESC - but we tend to build the planes for flying, not for crashing
In flight, the main difference is due to the increased air resistance caused by floats: the plane flies slower, especially on downlines. If built correctly, the airplane should not need any different trimming: on my Leviosa I was pleasantly surprised that I did not need to touch my trims after the transition to float! Means good building Due to the additional weight of the floats (most of which is in front of the CG), the battery needed moving back about 1.5cm. Of course, snap performance is not as good as without, but since F3A-H is also meant to be a beginner-friendly category, we chose to leave out snap manoeuvres from our schedules for now.

Feel free to ask more questions, I'd be happy to provide you with all info you may need.

Best regards
Fabrizio
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Jg14253.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	209.8 KB
ID:	1491347   Click image for larger version

Name:	Wu60097.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	185.2 KB
ID:	1491348   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pl32643.jpg
Views:	174
Size:	222.4 KB
ID:	1491349  
Old 08-28-2010, 06:17 AM
  #8  
papaone
 
papaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Salon, FRANCE
Posts: 1,414
Received 129 Likes on 72 Posts
Default RE: European Cup for F3A on floats

Hi Fabrizio

Seaplanes are awesome. There are very interesting regarding technical to get light weight.

Somes pics shot in France in Contest organized by Club CAREB (Pr├ęsident Edmond Solari). Last pic shot in 1980 in Berre L'Etang
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ig13711.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	137.5 KB
ID:	1491365   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hd94587.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	127.4 KB
ID:	1491366   Click image for larger version

Name:	Mr42318.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	128.5 KB
ID:	1491367   Click image for larger version

Name:	Lf95577.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	57.1 KB
ID:	1491368   Click image for larger version

Name:	Lj24080.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	170.2 KB
ID:	1491369  
Old 08-28-2010, 07:02 AM
  #9  
Neo02
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Neo02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Lugano, SWITZERLAND
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: European Cup for F3A on floats

Hi papaone,
I attended the competition in Peyrolles, very nice venue and excellent weather (a bit windy, but no problem for us). The CA Eclipse in the picture was flown by Julien Quellier, which is currently representing France at the European F3A Championships under way in Austria - I wish him best of luck! So you were there... Hhmmm
Looking forward to the next European Cup hydro in France (will be 2013, next year's Germany and 2012 is Czech Republic's turn to organize it).

Fabrizio
Old 12-19-2011, 04:55 AM
  #10  
papaone
 
papaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Salon, FRANCE
Posts: 1,414
Received 129 Likes on 72 Posts
Default RE: European Cup for F3A on floats

Hello

Anybody knows dates and place of European cup for F3A on floats 2012 ?

I'm building a Gaudius version RF for my friend Edmond who will participate in 2012.
Some pics about building of wings and stab. It's very easy to do. Jig is very simple and efficience.
Claude
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Us52662.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	519.3 KB
ID:	1702073   Click image for larger version

Name:	Up47678.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	502.5 KB
ID:	1702074   Click image for larger version

Name:	In26687.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	440.0 KB
ID:	1702075   Click image for larger version

Name:	Vp39033.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	467.9 KB
ID:	1702076   Click image for larger version

Name:	Cn79531.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	404.0 KB
ID:	1702077   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ne55656.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	508.3 KB
ID:	1702078   Click image for larger version

Name:	Zb60023.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	479.2 KB
ID:	1702079   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ih24718.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	454.8 KB
ID:	1702080  

Old 12-19-2011, 04:58 AM
  #11  
papaone
 
papaone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Salon, FRANCE
Posts: 1,414
Received 129 Likes on 72 Posts
Default RE: European Cup for F3A on floats

Hello

Suite of Gaudius
Design and colours are similar as Jef's Lightning he loves very much.
Last pic is Fabrizio's Gaudius.

Claude
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Mk27104.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	442.7 KB
ID:	1702081   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pk30516.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	528.1 KB
ID:	1702082   Click image for larger version

Name:	Lr39496.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	644.6 KB
ID:	1702083   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ys48677.jpg
Views:	120
Size:	693.6 KB
ID:	1702084   Click image for larger version

Name:	Vt56274.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	92.1 KB
ID:	1702085   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ki20011.jpg
Views:	142
Size:	441.9 KB
ID:	1702086  
Old 12-19-2011, 06:56 AM
  #12  
Viper Driver
My Feedback: (1)
 
Viper Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Archer City, TX
Posts: 397
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: European Cup for F3A on floats

Claude,

That is one fantastic color scheme!

Jeff

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.