Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

I have had a few smaller 3D electrics- that have convinced me to try electric in my ZN Line Supreme. The plane currently has an OS 140 on a soft mount. Total distance is about 155mm from firewall to spinner backplate. Himax is about 70mm with supplied mount.

I'm looking for some advice on the best way to mount this motor. Standoffs from exisitng firewall? Electric specific mount? New firewall? I am all ears.

Dave

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Dave
Your best bet is to cut out the old fire wall and built a new where it need to be. That way you don't have to content with possible thrust issue dur to flwxinf i=of the stand off. I redid my Impact two years ago an it wasn't that hard to do. It just take time to cut out the old one.

Jr Varela

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Dave,

I did a conversion of my Sequel to electric with 6330. I removed the old firewall (for YS140) and installed a new light firewall for 6330. I also found the need to trim much weight from a glow engine setup.

Shamelessly added: see my Sequel conversion thread here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_95...m.htm#10304446.

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Dave,

I think you should just send that airplane my way. I've always really liked that airplane, and yours is a beautiful example of one. I'll take care of it, I promise! ;)

If it were me, I would just leave the motor that's in there alone and fly the airplane as it is and get another airplane that's more suited for electric. I know that's a dumb option, but that's just a neat airplane, and I wouldn't want to mess with it. Call it nostalgia, I guess.

However, if it were me, I would grind the old firewall out as much as possible and make a new firewall for the motor. It's absolutely no fun to do, and it has sucked doing on the one Partner that I've ground the firewall out of.

I hope you're doing well.

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Dave,
I've been converting glow planes to e-power since 92. I always use as much of the existing structure as I can. In your case I would use the "X" mount that should have come with the motor. I would measure the distance between the "X" and the firewall then go to my favorite hardware store and get nylon spacers nearest to the length I need. (the final adjustment can be made with washers). Next mark the firewall for the hole spacing on the "X" mount (center it on the existing motor mount holes). Drill and install blind nuts for the appropriate bolts (unless you want to fiddle with washers and nuts). Plan a route for your motor to ESC wires and create the necessary opening, bolt the whole thing up and, voila, you're done. Takes longer to describe than to do. This approach retains the thrust lines built into the original firewall and is a hl of a lot easier than trying to line up a new firewall.

Keep the thread going or PM me if you need more info.
Walt

Planes converted: Pica Waco, TF P-47,Astro Hog, H9-Twist, TF Corsair, DC Connections SeaFury, Genesis, H-9 F22 and more

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Walt,

There is a weight limit for pattern planes. Granted, Dave's airplane is stupidly light, there's no need in adding additional weight by retrofitting a firewall that was designed for glow to electric power.

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Before you cut out anything that exists see what the weight difference will be by just installing the new motor. I've used half inch dowel from Home Depot and the included back plate mount to do conversions. It worked quite well and was very easy. A lot of times the bigger problem is making yourself a battery mount that allows easy access to change out the batteries between flights.

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Ryan,
I find your post confusing as I specifically said not to remove the original firewall. Also, it seems as if my approach would add the least amount of weight.
Walt

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

My plan at this point is to install a new firewall- but- not going to take out the old firewall right away. Just gonna see what it weighs and what I think.

I considered using standoffs- but it's just such a long way from the existing firewall- like 85mm- longer than the motor itself.

Motor and associated equipment came out and it looks pretty clean. I'll need to make sure I get all of the oils out so I can glue in the new firewall- any suggestions on ways to clean out the oil and what glues to use? Hysol I would guess? Also- what firewall material- aircraft plywood is easy to use and is available so I'd rather use that if possible.

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Walt,

Don't you think adding stuff to a firewall that is already overkill for an electric motor is going to be heavier than grinding it out and putting an appropriately sized firewall in the appropriate location? I would think making a new firewall would be lighter.

I've only built seven pattern planes, five of which have been electric, so what do I know?

I'm REALLY waiting on Dave to decide it's too much work and offer to dump the airplane cheap. [:-]

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Ryan,

I think his plan is to install a new firewall for the motor and just leave the existing in place. If he can make weight doing this and doesn't have the headache of cutting the other one out, then I don't see the issue. He can always grind the old one out later. Honestly if he isn't going to the NATS, then there isn't even a major issue of weight. Building a new firewall is a lot less weight and much stonger than adding standoffs, then he can always go back and remove the old firewall,

My dad and I have used K2R cleaner in the past to remove oil stains from wood and other things.

Arch

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Ryan,
I doubt that the weight of the X mount and four nylon stand-offs is going to exceed the weight of the wet-power motor mount. As for the over-kill firewall, by the time it is relieved for wire passage and cooling air flow, it's weight will be reduced and the strength may be needed. The 6330 is a pretty powerful motor. I've seen one rip the firewall out of a Great Planes Super Sportster.
Walt

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Dave remember onr thing if you leave the old firewall in how are you going to get air past it to cool batteries?

Jr

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Good point, Jr- I'm also going to have to make some sort of exit from inside the fuse to direct the air from the batteries.

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Dave, I have used this mount before. http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp...S&Category=729 It's solid. Heavy, but solid. Will get you in the air just fine. Thats what I think you are wanting. To get it in the air and see if you like it? If so, they have different length rods. Then when you decide you like it, you can cut out the Firewall and put a new one in with no mount saving you many many ounces.

Good luck!

Chris

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Thanks Chris- I had considered that mount but want to avoid the weight.

I have been making some progress on the new mount. Have made up a couple of templates and am close to cutting the firewall and mounting the motor. Here are some more pictures.

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

I am considering opening up the two very small holes in the cheeks to let more air in. I'm also toying with cutting an opening on the top- I have some small paint chipping here and it would remove that blemish plus allow more cooling air in. I'd like to use a conventional spinner. I will also have to think about the best way to use the large opening in the chin (previously for the glow engine). I am giving some thought to directing some air to the motor and some back to where the batteries will be.

To envision, I cut out some pieces of tape to simulate what the new openings would be like.

Dave

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Firewall- i ended up drilling holes for four bolts instead of three as shown to make it easier to make thrust adjustments.

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Cut out most of the firewall. Left the outline of the firewall remaining to act as a former- I traced the outline, drilled holes around the outline, rough cut the opening by connecting the holes then finished off with the dremel. Used a filtered mask and shop vac to suck up all the particulates as I drilled/cut/ground it out.

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Dave,
Looks like your on your way to experiencing electric power. I did basiclly what your doing with an Integral. I had no issues. So does this mean I will see you at our FARM Spring contest?

Larry
D2 VP

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Hope so. What's the date? Might even make it to the clinic.

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Dave,

With respect to battery cooling, based upon recent experience with the new generations of Lipos (2010) in my bigger planes I have found no need for special cooling. It used to be a big deal and there's a body of CW backing that up, but now not so much. You've seen me with my log book and temp gauges at the field flying the 80" plus Katana, Stinger, Laser, Cub, etc in 6S and 12S 6000mah configurations.

What I've been surprised to observe over hundreds of flights is that planes with the proper motor/prop/esc setup do not cause new Lipos with adequate C ratings/capacity to generate all that much heat, even in 95 deg summer sun. Literally hand warm after a hard flight. [footnote: my setups are designed to fit my desired flight time within a 3.75v/cell no-load post flight floor]

A pattern plane may push that to the limit, but I've seen folks design lots of intricate cooling ducting and whatnot b/c of the horror stories of early lipos. In my current GS planes many readers might be horrified to see that my Lipos are all secured by velcro and snuggled in foam strips on 3 sides for shock/impact protection, with no special cooling (or literally none in some cases). My post flight temp gauge consistently agrees that with the right setup and the right modern battery (even the new cheapos), the old cooling issues are a thing of the past.

Having said all that, clearly proper cooling is provided by cheap airflow and in most cases is simple to provide. So if you can, go for it, if it gets complicated or disfigures the plane, no worries. I regard it as a safety feature that can compensate for pilots that stretch even the perfect setup beyond a battery's capacity. And these days that limit is flight time, not amps or heat!

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

Dave, my first thought was you want AJ to look at this, but I see that has happened :)
What cell count were you looking at and what ESC?
ALOT has happened in the past year in reguards to LiPos with the release of the Turnigy Nanotech and Gens Ace lines.

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

AJ, thanks for the info- I figured you'd have a thought or two on the subject.

Dave, I'm probably going to use a Castle Creations Phoenix 85HV or ICE 80HV from www.f3aunlimited.com

Batteries will be 10s 4000 or 5000. From what I have read, this particular motor seems to be fairly easy on the batteries so 4000 may be enough and would save almost 4 oz each- half a pound between the two.

Dave

RE: Replacing OS 140 with Himax 6330
 

May as well throw in some more heresy while I'm at it... in each of the electric conversions I've done recently, rather than being heavier from all the battery weight, each plane wound up being tail heavy. Sometimes a LOT. You may recall how that 80" cub flew like dirt initially (even after discounting my skill level). I tossed in an extra 6S/5800mah just for ballast, now it tracks beautifully.

Even after moving the batts as far forward as possible, and mirroring the old CG, some planes just don't fly right when they've been lightened. The Katana was an example of that as well until a beefier setup was installed. My EF Edge 540 too. Weigh your old setup and try to get close to it in the electric setup, not less, which is easy to do.

IMO pound for pound, until the battery runs out, these new electrics have a more power(hp) than the equivalent wet version. Depending on your plane/e-setup/C-ratings you may even find that you can add more weight than you'd expected (via batt capacity in mah) to give you an even a greater final AUW than before the conversion... Each time I add weight this way, I get longer flight times, better tracking, and to my continual astonishment, no appreciable loss of vertical.

Your setup looks good, but I'm curious about your expected AUW and prop clearance, given the 200Kv on 10s. Hopefully you've have it all done in time to see it Saturday morning, right?