2 meter electric setups
 

OK all, i am doing a little research for myself for my next 2 meter ship to be electric.

Please post your setups: motor, polys, speed controllers

Also add your preferred and tested props with rpm and current.

Thanks in advance.

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Hello Sparky.
My opinion is copy the Top pilots in F3A ( Matt's, Janson Shulman...) . In my case I have put in my airplanes the Hacker 14XL competition with the speed controler : Acro 90 0 competition and with TP 5300. The propeller that use habitually is 22 x 12 obtaining very good results.
What airplane you wish to electrify?

Regards

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Currently I am flying a Piedmont Brio, with TP 5300s, AXi 5330/F3A, Jeti 90 Acro. Approximately 120 flights with no motor, esc, battery problems. I prefer the APC 21x13 electric prop. I recently tested the setup with an onboard recorder and got the following performance figures for static and airborne WOT .
_ _ _ Static Airborne
RPM - 6040 6510
Amps 76 78

Don A

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Plettenberg 30-10 Evo, Schulze 32.80KA, TP 10s 5300's. - Either an APC 21x13W or 20x15 - RPM static - 6350-6400 - Amps 75 - both props are very similar in rpm/load, 20x15 has more speed and power.

Same setup with the new 5000 Extremes - 6500-6600 RPM static - 80A

Either setup in flight is around 70-75A max usually, dont know the in flight rpm.

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Does that Schulze speed controller have any advantages over the Jeti advance 90 plus controller or the Castle Creations Phoenix 85 HV speed controller Chad?

Cheers,

Angus

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

I use the standard Hacker 14 XL and speed contoller with the Falcon F3A batteries. No issues and plenty of power. 11 pound fueled up :)
Stuart

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

hi my set up genesis 3d

cyclone f3a
apc 20x13 at 6500 rpm
haker masetr o 90acro speed controller
tp 5000 extreme series

at full trotle 78amp

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

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Anyone using the new A123 (M1) cells?
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RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

ok , so what is the status on the dreaded CC firmware large outrunner screach?
Is that worked out yet?

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Hi Sparky,
I never have an issue with my AXI 5330/18 and 18-12E running ~ 84A with a full battery, and close to 75A after a full P-07 flight.
I run the version 1.2.3 code.
Dean Pappas

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Might as well kick this thread and see if it breathes. I am building a C-ARF Impact and plan on putting the following components in it after seeing just how great they perform in my new Hanger 9 Sundowner F1;

Axi 5330/F3A
2 x EVO 5000 6S2P is series (12S)
Jeti Spin 99
Mejzlik 20 x 12E Composite

The following WhattMeter and RPM numbers are from bench tests on my Sundowner with the same setup;

3,650 Watts
81.5 Amps
7,110 RPM

Firing this thing up was almost frightening, it felt like it was going to tear the engine and Budd Engineering softmount right off the firewall!

Jack

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

well that sundowner setup sounds good, but your running 12S?
I thought you couldnt run more that 10S in AMA Pattern?

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

I don't think the Sundowner F-1 is a pattern plane.

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

I get the distinct feeling that the "serious?" flyers do not consider these cells as viable
really strange, as my Diamante and my little 300 extra both fly long n hard on 4 a123 cells
in watching and comparing same size models with lipos -my setup is as good or better than typical setups and one hell of a lot less money and much esier to use .
IF--I go for a 2x2 setup -it will be with these cells

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Dick, I think that has a lot to do with the horrendous availability of the a123 cell. The fact that buying dewalt cordless tool batteries, breaking them apart, breaking apart the battery assembled inside, and then assembling your own battery, is the standard method of obtaining an a123 pack is a joke. It's literally like A123 doesn't want pilots to use their cells.

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Yes -they are not available thru most model channels but Horizon Hobbies is no w stocking them
buying from the EBay source and pulling em from the pack is quite acceptable to me

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

OK Guys, if you use the A123 cells for a 2 meter aircraft what configuration do you need? It seems as though the voltage and some other parameters are different. Can you guys explain the differences pro and con using a big picture scenario, for example bang for the buck, weight, charge method, electrical charge/discharge benefits,etc?

Trying to get a handle on this electric power application thing.....

Thanks,

Gene

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Along with availability, the other issue is energy density. What weight A123 pack holds the same energy as a 10s 4000 lipo (4000 being pretty much the bare minimum)?

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

There is no rule that says you can't run more than 10s in AMA pattern... there will be a rule in FAI for 2009/2010 that limits voltage.

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

There is already a rule in F3A that limits voltage to 42V no load voltage. This is not new in 2009 its been there for many years.

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

The lipo users who have not done direct -in use comparisons of the 123 cells get a skewed picture
they are heavier -no doubt - except for that they beat the LiPos as you can hammer the sh it out of em clear down to 2 v with no harm
my 4 cell pack is 13 v + charged an blipped a few times then hit with 40 amps stays at 11 volts for a while
I had the friggen 2070 cells and gave em away-
10 cells is 25 ozs and 33 volts
I don't expect these will appeal to sponsered flyers who really don't give a rat's ask about cell life / safety (not all you guys )
but I am really stoked on em - easy to use hammer em on charge - hammer em in flight - no problems.
I use Lipo on my wee stuf -- of course .

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Hi

The 2008 to 2011 FAI rules for F3A states the following:

Maximum overall span 2 000mm
Maximum overall length 2 000mm
Maximum total dry weight, with batteries 5 000g
A tolerance of 1% to be allowed for all above measurements.

Power Propulsion source limitations: Electric-powered model aircraft are limited to a maximum of 42.56 volts for the propulsion circuit, measured less load, and prior to flight while the competitor is in the ready box.

Burt

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: dick Hanson


10 cells is 25 ozs and 33 volts



Hmmm. So 12 cells would be around 30 oz and 39 volts and I can hammer nails with my packs. Sounds pretty appealling.

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

yeh -the cells are actually rated at 3.6 v apiece - in real world the .3 v is instantly skimmed off when you first use a freshly chaged pack 12x3.6=43.2 - but if anyone measures that pack - hooked up in the model - they won't see 43.2 it will be less.
Forget the "theory" --in actual practice I never see 3.6 except at end of fresh charge.
3.5 would give 42 volts n' there you go

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Dick,

What is the Watt-Hrs per pound? I suspect that is their shortcoming.

Jim O

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

less than LiPo - but that is the only negative point -
once you fly them and compare how the LiPos MUST stop short of voltage mins -or they DIE and the cost of the lipo and the fragility of them and the fire danger - etc.. You look for how to maximize the a123 good points .
In a Fu-k the cost approach to electric - Li Po rules -but I gave up on that approach--
at the moment my 3.4 lb aerobats perform about as well or better than the Li Po ones I have seen on 4 cell packs
The Czech flyers are seriously using these now in large aerobats - I will look at their results again
OD -is that you?

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

It's me. Flying pattern again only because of eletric propulsion. I've got 100 flights on one set of Li-Pos and approaching that on two other sets. If they make it to 200 flights each I figure the cost is less than a high performance glow setup. In the meantine I'm really enjoying it.

Jim Oddino

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

great!
The LiPo users I see- tend to abuse the cells and effective cost per flite goes sky high
I am going to do a 6cell A123 setup with a EFlite 60 motor and 16x10 prop - I spent a while this morning speaking with Rojecki about his litle 50 Showtime and a 60 and dual 4200 6 cell lipo packs
He says the plane is fast does all the good stuff for about 7-8 minutes with plenty of reserve
The auw is just under 7 lbs --about like one of my old Tipos done light
so-- if I build for the electric motor I can hit 6 lbs and 700 squares - should work

what are you flying ?

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Dick: Clearly, many RCers are using the A123 cells with excellent results. They certainly appear to be a safer technology and yes, they can be somewhat abused without as much risk as that associated with LiPos. My Partner 2 meter pattern ship, with Thunderpower 5300 cells, weighs 10 lbs 13.5 oz ready to fly. I thought I would compute the weight of my Partner with A123 cells. According to the A123 Systems website, each cell produces a nominal 3.3 volts, weighs 70 grams and is rated at 2.3AH. To put together a pack with sufficient voltage and current capacity to fly a Masters pattern, I would need two strings of 12 cells in parallel or 24 cells. With the resulting 4.6 amps of capacity, I could get through the pattern; however, that pack would weigh 59 ounces (without wiring/connectors) which would add 1 lb 3 ounces to the weight of my ready-to-fly Partner......not an option for me or most other 2 meter pattern ships being used today. Clearly, you are an advocate of the A123 cells.....but I don't see how they can be used in pattern competition due to weight. As a side note, I've been using lithium polymer cells since before most pattern flyers even knew of their existence. I follow the rules for handling, charging, storage, etc. and have had excellent performance without fires or other accidents/incidents. Again, I think the A123 cells clearly have a place in R/C, but I'm not sure, as a result of their weight, they will benefit the pattern community. If I'm missing something, please clarify.

Mike

P.S. I miss your production of outstanding pattern designs....have flown many of them over the years.

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

Hello All,
I fear to post in the middle of a LiPo vs A123 debate, but this thread is very close to what I've been thinking about lately. I want to get back into pattern after a 20 year absence. I have a mistress and an EU1a both with screaming .61s. A little out of flavor in todays arena. I also have one of Dick's Dalotels. Built back in the 80's, It's never had an engine or radio put in it. Dick, I'm amazed every time I pick it up, how light it is. It's not 2 meter job, as this tread had asked, but I would like to make it electric. Dick, have you ever considered this model for electric or could you point me in the right direction?
Thank you,
Paul

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

points always brought up by guys asking about the 123 cells - is the rated power and the weight
first - off they are heavier - no question about it
however the useful charge for a flight exceeds the Lipos
because - you can run em right on down - not to worry- it does not harm em
it will ,however killLiPos

having to double a pack to get same useful power duration - is not true
you can instead, increase voltage and reduce capacity .
I use 4, a123 cells and get very good power for 8-10 min on 3.4 lb pattern model ( a Diamante )
the performance is good at the 40 + amps and a 14x7.
. If it goes flat -(and I have done it - I just land and recharge .
as good as same weight Lipo (11 ozs) yes I think so - I can pound em harder and use em longer than the lipos
I would not consider any of the current pattern designs - (2 meter ) -they are all designed for glow and in my book simply heavier than needed . I have done 2 meter 1280 sq 40 gas powered pattern models which were waaay stronger than required for a electric setup -so yeh -I think I can do it with A123 cells -at least it is worth a shot
The Dalotels were light but heavier than needed for electric.
I had a guy try one years back but the batts n motor killed it then.
I have a new pattern model I am doing -- for the ZDZ40 RE and I have dropped design weight again - I use foam flying surfaces and balsa fuselages so I get best sound damping - -I have looked at the really light all composite ones and -I just don't care for em -beautifully done but FRAGILE and $$SSSpensive.
If you are hung up on the curvy composite pattern look (I am not ) you will have a hard time dropping fuselage weight.
The Dalotel by virtue of its simple angular lines can be done more lightly . The early model can have the wings really lightened and the aft section of the fuselage poked full of holes also I would do a simple fixed position wire gear with doors in place.
Not having to design for IC resonance damping really opens the game.

RE: 2 meter electric setups
 

For anyone interested in the A123 cells/batteries, Brian at Tanic is selling the packs assembled.
tanicpacks.com

Emory.