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Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

Old 06-30-2009, 01:18 PM
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DonStegall
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Default Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

I have some packages coming in from AirBorne Models. Today I got one that had a couple of Wingman II planes in it. I'm getting the matching electric power system and ESC, but they must be in another box.

When I took the kit box out of the package I was impressed by how light it was. And when I took the plane out of the box and weighed it I was even more impressed. The whole airframe, minus the hardware, weighs 21.3 ounces. This is effectively a slightly smaller Sky Raider Mach II. It still has a symmetrical airfoil. But much work was done to make it lighter. The wing does not have a full D-tube. The fuselage structure is greatly reduced in the amount of material. The rudder and elevators have lightening holes.

While the box says that this is a .40 or electric airplane, I would certainly not put a ball bearing .40 on it. It is just too light. I think it would make a fine plane for an OS 25FX or OS 25AX. Or even an OS 46LA.

I'm going to put very light servos in mine. I'm going to use Hitec HS-85MG servos and a Spektrum AR6200 receiver. The batteries I have coming are the [link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7469]Rhino 2350mAh 4S1P 25C Lipoly Pack[/link] and they only weigh 9.25 ounces. The motor weighs 6 ounces. I should easily come in at under 3 pounds. Meybe even 2.75 pounds.

My batteries and charger are coming from Hong Kong and should be here next Tuesday. I will be looking forward to flying this plane. I have already gotten a selection of APC electric props to try.

I think Club Wingman is inevitable.

One more thing. The firewall bolt pattern is just a hair over 1.5" square. So the power system may be usable on Quickies with no modifications. I know that 450 watts will not be real fast, but guys are having fun with Quickie 25 and I'll bet the speed will be in the same range. The World Models is a stable supplier of the motors and you have to have a constant for electric racing to work.
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Old 06-30-2009, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

Hi Don,

If you remember, I asked about this plane for Club 40 while back. I knew it was a little smaller than the SkyRaider but had no idea it was that light. I'll have to order one and see how it is with a 25. I know there are a lot of lecky guys around but There are so many ways to make electric go faster that I worry about keeping things spec.

Looking forward to your impressions.

Blessings, Terry
Old 06-30-2009, 04:20 PM
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DonStegall
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

Terry,

The way to keep parity is by requiring a stock motor. The motor used by The Wings Maker power system is the KM0374810 that The World Models sells for $55. These are the specs:

Specification / Size: D37.2 x 48.5 mm. Package: 1 pc/pkg. -Max Speed: 13860rpm. -Kv (rpm/V): 770. -Operating Power: 450W. -Operating Voltage: 8.5-18V. -Operating Current: 30A. -Peak Current: 38A (max. 15 sec.). -Internal Resistance: 34 m ohms. -Diameter: 37.2mm. -Length: 48.5mm. -Weight: 172g. -Shaft Diameter: 5mm. -Mounting Screw: M3 (Front) and M2.5 (Back). -Distance of Mounting Holes: 25mm (Front), 15.5mm (Back).
The speed controller will be open. I ordered the one that The Wings Maker has. It is the same one as TWM sells as the Brushless Electronic Speed Controller KC2040A02 for $69

Specification / Size: 55 x 28 x 12 mm. Package: 1 pc/pkg. Details: - Continuous Current: 40A - Burst Current (<10 seconds): 55A - BEC Output: 3A - Input: Li-ion / Li-poly 2 – 5 cells or Ni-mh / Ni-cd 5 – 15 cells - Weight: 33g with wires
While I ordered 4S1P batteries, it may well be possible to use 5S1P. I should have ordered one of each. But I have to order some more 3S1P ~2000mAh packs anyway after I see how the ones I ordered perform for www.ElectricWarbirdRacing.com

The big thing is that The World Models is a consistent provider for the motors. They make long term commitments. AirBorne Models understands what we're doing with pylon racing and they are working to help our efforts and want to support us. I took a quick look at the [link=http://www.airborne-models.com/html/productdetails.asp?ProductID=139]P-47D Thunderbolt EP[/link] with retracts and it is stunningly beautiful.

The Wingman II would break 100 mph with a BB .40 on it. I don't think the airframe would hold up to a 400' course with a TT Pro 40 and the rigors of racing. It is just not as robust as the Sky Raider Mach II or LA Racer 40.

I'm working on Club Wingman primarily to draw in the electric guys. I still think Club 40 is the ticket for glow newcomers.

But maybe using .25's with Quickie 25 as the step-up option would be reasonable.
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Old 06-30-2009, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

Hi Don,

I'm not a big electric guy but I do have a little experience with them. Limiting the motor is not enough. In my experience the battery pack has a bigger effect than anything else. On my electrics, there can be a noticeable difference between two packs of the same voltage but different C ratings. You would almost have to spec the batteries as well.

Anyway, I am still very interested in what you find when you get this plane done.

Blessings, Terry
Old 07-01-2009, 11:44 AM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

The box with the Wingman II Electric Power System arrived at noon. First thing I did was check the mount to see how close it is to Quickie mounts. It's a little bigger, but opening the holes a little allowed me to mount it on a Viper with no problem.

With the 6 ounce motor extended out some, it should make balancing easier.

Of course I'm real busy and this will have to wait until after the 7/11 race at www.LowesRC.com ... But depending on how the power system performs on the Wingman II, it may be viable.

The power system comes with an 11x8E prop. So this motor must be able to handle a decent load.
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:51 AM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

I didn't expect my batteries and charger until Monday. But they came today. Now I'm going to have to get the Wingman II ready.
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Old 07-04-2009, 06:56 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

My wife and son are out of town. So I had the July 4th holiday to do as I wished. Last night I put the power system for the Wingman II together and bound the receiver. And I glued the wing together. That's all I did/

Today I assembled the whole thing, set up the radio, and test flew it. It flies great. Just like the Sky Raider Mach II effectively. Maybe even a little smoother. Probably due to the lighter wing loading.

The total ready to fly weight with the battery was just a little under 3 pounds and 3 ounces.

I used Hitec HS-85MG servos. And I used dual aileron servos, just because I'm used to doing that. So that added over an ounce. I know 85's are overkill, as 81's would do fine. But I had 85's on hand. I used a Spektrum AR7000 because I didn't have a unsed AR6200.

I did not use the 11x8E prop that came with the power system. I used an APC 10x7E and the motor pulled 442 watts static. I probably can use the 11x8E and get more speed as the load in the air would go down. But I wanted to play it safe as I only have the one ESC here.

The speed was comparable to a Club 40 Sport plane. Plenty fast for fun with others on the course. And if you run a 300' course, the speed would be just right for quick action.

The battery I used was the [link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7469]Rhino 2350mAh 4S1P 25C Lipoly Pack[/link] andit was just barely warm after a 10 minute flight.

The charger I used is the [link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7898]Turnigy 420 Balancer/Charger 2S~4S[/link]. I love this charger. It is truly plug and play. It is a great deal for batteries that use the JST-XH balancing plugs. I've charged all of my batteries with it and I love it.

The shipping from Hong Kong is expensive if you get the 3-5 day EMS shipping. But the prices are so much better than the US prices that it is worth it. Of course I just started using these batteries, but the reviews I've read on other forums really seem to endorse them.

I've already registered a domain name for a racing class for this plane. The electric guys are going to love a Club 40 type of class that is clean and easy.

I can't wait to get another power system and put it on a Quickie.
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Old 07-05-2009, 04:41 AM
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DonStegall
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

I now have www.ClubWingman.com or just [link=http://ClubWingman.com]ClubWingman.com[/link] online.

I don't have the rules and objectives online yet. But the domain name and web page infrastructure is in place.

The rules will be simple. One airframe. One motor. Any ESC. Batteries will be required to be LiPo 4S1P. Minimum weight 3 pounds. Maximum weight 4.5 pounds.

I found out that the covering on these is tougher to remove than on the Sky Raiders and LA Racers. I thought we would be ok since these have CA hinges. But solid colors or an ARC may be needed.
Old 07-05-2009, 07:55 AM
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DonStegall
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

Today is a cloudy day with a 70% chance of rain. No flying today ... But I sneaked in a flight with the Wingman anyway.

With the 11x8E it really waked up. Faster than Club 40 Sport/Novice. It really surprised me after yesterday. You wouldn't want to fly on a course shorter than 400'.

The battery did get warm.

Quickies with this power system will be plenty fast. I can't wait to get one on a Viper now. One power system from a stable supplier. That is what is needed for real racing classes.
Old 07-05-2009, 09:11 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

Hi Don,

Do you have a link to the motor? I went to their website and can't find it.

Thanks, Terry
Old 07-06-2009, 03:42 AM
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DonStegall
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

Terry,

Both pages for the motor are not direct links, so you have to navigate to them. I'll help you get there.

For the Wingman power package, go to http://www.thewingsmaker.com/airplan...php?code=GA029 and click on "Buy Parts". There you will see the Electric Powere Package for $64.99. It comes with the motor, the mount, the prop adapter, the screws, a prop, and a spinner, plus velcro straps and a piece of double sided tape.

If you go to http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...asp?AGroupID=6 and click on "Brushless Motor", the KM0374810 is at the bottom for $55.

If you go to http://www.airborne-models.com/html/...asp?AGroupID=6 and click on "Electronic Speed Control", the KC2040A02 for $69 is what I used.

I am going to check out some other ESC's from http://www.hobbycity.com like the one that Archie used since I will be ordering more batteries from them. But I knew that the one from TWM was compatible and a plug and play solution.

I recommend the entire Power Package from The Wings Maker, mount and all.

I believe a Quickie 500 with this power system and an APC 9x9E prop will be at least 100 mph and maybe more. The hatch on a Viper will work well.

I will probably put one on a Sky Raider Mach II or LA Racer 40 as well. I believe it will get close to Club 40 Sport/Novice speeds. But no hatch will be an issue. I will probably improvise one.

They recommend a 3200-3900 mAh battery. I used a 2350 mAh 25C High Discharge battery. The battery I used only weighs 9.25 ounces. If you get to the 3900-4000 batteries like [link=http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9364&Product_Name=ZIPPY_Flightmax_4000mAh_4S1P_20C_]ZIPPY Flightmax 4000mAh 4S1P 20C[/link] you get into the 13-14 ounce range. Possibly more power, but more wing loading. And I think that the battery I used is fine for the motor/ESC anyway. The 2350 may not last though.

I did make one addition to the plane. Where the front hatch is, there is a platform for the battery. It opens into the wing area. The platform is only about 4 inches long and with the battery on it, the battery sticks back into the wing area and falls down. I made a simple platform extension out of 1/8" light ply about 8" long and velcro'd it to the platform. Then I put velco on the extension. So it supports the battery. I will take pictures.
Old 07-11-2009, 02:14 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

Don,

Great to see that you caught the electric racing bug. Looks like you are having the same results I had with the Predator and the Turnigy 35-48-1100 on the 9 x 7.5 prop and the 4s 2530 Rhino packs.

Great to hear the wingman flew so well. The Viper will go around 100 mph with that power-system. I would however caution about leaving the batteries open because that is where it will get crazy. The batteries & prop choice could be used to govern the speed. 4S 2350's will give about 650 watts max for 2:00 minutes before giving up the ghost. That is plenty for beginner racing with either Wingman or EP quickie.

I have began testing with Jery Small and Pete Bergstrom on an EP NMPRA racer. The model is an LR1-A Pogo using Turnigy SK 35-42-1250, 4S 2350 pack and APC 8 x 8 "E". The model is 375 sq in and weighs 3lbs. They go just over 100mph and we flew them on the short course at the NATS. They were very positively received by Q-40 & Quickie Pilots there. We are hoping that Horizon will be able to make them available as ARF's and we can have a racing event with airplanes that look like racers.

Looking forward to hearing more about how Club Wingman goes.

Archie Adamisin
Muncie, Indiana
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Old 07-13-2009, 04:06 PM
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DonStegall
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

The Wingman II was very well received by the Summer Pylon Series racers. Unfortunately an engine was started in the pits just as it took off and kind of spoiled the silence. But we got the engine shut down and everyone got to see that it was still performing well 4-5 minutes into the flight.

John Gibson did the demonstration. He liked the plane. He thought it had plenty of power. Being a glow guy, he wants to try one with a .25 on it.

The thing that everyone likes is that it performs at least as well as a Sky Raider Mach II. It is nimble and still plenty stable.

I'm getting more and we will race them at upcoming races.

It could do for electric racing what Club 40 has done for glow racing.
Old 07-13-2009, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

I also got an opportunity to fly Don's Wingman II, after the Club 40 and Quickie 25 racing was over. The Wingman II flies a lot like its big brother, the Sky Raider Mach II, which I've been flying in Club 40. The most notable difference was the lighter wing loading, making it generally more nimble, and the take-off and climb-out were faster and steeper than I expected it to be capable of. The power is definitely more than adequate. The top speed seemed a little lower than the SRM2, but that might be a question of trying some different props, plus, some of that slower impression might have been due to the lack of NOISE! The speed range was good, with the stiff breeze we had, I could just about park it in the air at 1/4 throttle, wide open, it accelerated and zipped around nicely. This plane would definitely be a good candidate for entry-level racing, especially for all-electric clubs/sites, or those with noise restrictions. I would agree that a ball-bearing .40 would not suit this light airframe very well. That level of overkill (this is coming from a Revver!) would probably result in structural failure sooner or later; a bushing or ball-bearing .25 would seem a more appropriate match for the Wingman II to me, with a bushing .40 being about the upper sensible limit.
Old 07-13-2009, 10:43 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

We have two in the club, mine has a GP .42 We bought them thinking they would make good (79.99 cheap) club racers. So far they seem great, but like stated, a little light and fragile. The supplied hinges are pretty little, I used normal ones on mine, the other was built with the supplied and had some flutter and broke one. They are fun to fly. Mine with full sized equippment, not trying to save any weight, is only 3 1/2 pounds.
Old 08-12-2009, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

I got one on order from Don, I await its arrival. Duane thanks for the heads up on the hinges.
Old 09-21-2009, 09:05 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

I have a question regarding this model.

Is the covering what I like to call Chinese Shelf paper? By that I mean it's a printed sheet of Mylar and not layers of trim applied over other covering.

Sure would like one in all white, but the beauty is the price, and the level of construction done for you. To strip and recover it seems to undo everything good about the model.

Could you compare it to say the Pole Cat as sold by Texas Model Planes? My power system is limited to 4S and about 800W. I'm looking for the slipperiest airframe for the buck.

Thanks Guys!

Tommy D
Old 09-25-2009, 02:22 AM
  #18  
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

if you want a slippery airframe that is balistic in speeds, have a look at the VOODOO. you can run the NUE Motor at a price or go for the HET Typhoon 2w-20. this model is just about as quick as the hot F3D glow stuff.
Old 09-26-2009, 10:56 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman


ORIGINAL: freeair

have a look at the VOODOO.
Link?
Old 01-26-2010, 01:10 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

I've flown the Wingman II with both an OS 40FP and an OS 46LA for all of 2009. It is my "fun - throw it around" airplane. Unlimited vertical with either engine. It is fast and handles very well indeed. I did have an incident that required repair and a total recover of the fuse but it is back in service. Yes the original covering is a printed material. The only issue I had with the quality is the port aileron arm had too much slop in the hole it operated in and at high speed I experience severe flutter. That has been fixed. With the proper electric power setup this should be every bit as much fun as the "oilers".
Old 01-26-2010, 05:27 PM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

I got my Wingman II and am using it electric. I got the motor for it that Wingmaker/WM had for it. I am using a 40A ESC/BEC and a 4s 25C 2350 mah batt., and the 10/8 prop that came with the motor. Flys great and if pretty quick
Old 01-16-2012, 08:57 AM
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Default RE: Electrics- The Wingman II for Club Wingman

Just an update on the WMII.  I have mine flying for 2+ years now and I have had to tighten the covering once about a year ago.  Great flying airplane.  Not overly aerobatic but a good sport flyer.  I set mine up with dual aileron servos so I could have flapperons and they work well.  This will be a great entry to medium electric pylon racer.

 





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